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Primary education

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Original poster

4 children with statements in ds' reception class - help!

166 replies

ALittleBitConfused · 28/01/2011 17:26

DS is due to start reception in Sept. The choice we have for our first choice will have 3 siblings with SEN. One with profound difficulties, one with ASD and one with behavioural probelms. All have statements with 1:1 written in them I believe.

My friend has a ds with ASD and has put down this school, so there will be 4 children with SEN in the class.

Is this likely to impact on the education of my ds if he gets in? It's an overscribed school.

OP posts:
thefirstMrsDeVere · 28/01/2011 21:35

That should read - If a kid has SN the school gets the SN funding dependant on how many children there are with SN.

Original poster
ALittleBitConfused · 28/01/2011 21:36

miss I'm confused. Why do I need to get to know the SEN children as people? What has that got to do with anything?

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tiredemma · 28/01/2011 21:37

The HT sounds like she needs a good boot up the arse.

My boys have just moved to a heavily undersubscribed school, its an excellent school, my children are thriving- The headmistress is nothing short of amazing, lots of opportunities for the kids...... why is it undersubscribed?? Because it has a 'learning resource centre' that has 28 children with varying special needs. This makes it unpopular in the locality.

Fucking outrageous in this day and age that adults would want to seperate children for having special needs.

thefirstMrsDeVere · 28/01/2011 21:39

Hecate do you mean your DC with SN?

Did they ask your permission to exclude him from SATS? If they didnt, that is illegal AFAIK.

When my DS was in MS his teacher breezily said 'we probably wont put him in the sats, he wont manage them'

I thought SATs were supposed to give a true impression of the school Hmm

When I mentioned this to Parents Partnership they told me they could only do this with my permission.

I hate SATS but its taking the piss to hide away kids with SN.

HecateQueenOfWitches · 28/01/2011 21:43

Yes. Well, both my children have sn, but it wasn't sats time for my youngest.

They didn't ask my permission, they told me that he would not be doing them. fait accompli

I didn't realise they had to get my permission. Shock

I think not putting children with sn in for SATS is probably quite common.

IndigoBell · 28/01/2011 21:43

If your child is working at a level 2 (and possibly 3, I can't remember...) you don't sit the SATS at KS2... And if they're working at a level 1 you don't sit the SATS at KS1.

Original poster
ALittleBitConfused · 28/01/2011 21:54

Well my friend says she's deffo sending her ds there and that the other kids in the class aren't her responsibility.

She says if the LA can't come up with a satisfactory alternative for HER ds then they obviously aren't that concerned for the other kids so the HT must be talking rubbish.

I expect and hope that my ds will also get in (ought to, practically live in the playground).

And we'll see how it all goes in a couple of years. Quite possible one or two of the other kids will move somewhere else anyway, but so what if they don't?

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Original poster
ALittleBitConfused · 28/01/2011 21:56

Polar, that's a very interesting post. So technically there could be financial all manor of reasons why the HT doesn't want my friends ds, but she has to go and find the legal one and try to make it fit!?

Is that what you are saying?

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AllSheepareWhite · 28/01/2011 21:58

OP if there are only 4 SEN children and they all have 1:1 statements that is very good as they will each have an adult working with them. In some schools you can have half the class with SEN, but none statemented so no 1:1 just school intervention which can vary wildly depending on funding. Any mainstream school that caters well for SEN children is a good school in my opinion and one I would be more than happy to send my child to.

With regard to SAT's if the child in question is quite clearly capable of achieving a level 3-5 at KS2 then regardless of SEN they should be allowed to sit them with support for reading/writing etc... It makes me very Angry when I hear about lazy schools that do not support their SEN children to achieve. I don't actually agree with SATS at KS1 anyway, it should be less formal and less about levels, more about assessing that child's learning needs for the main areas such as reading, writing, speaking, listening and mathematics so that they can be supported to achieve the basics first then progress in upper KS2.

Original poster
ALittleBitConfused · 28/01/2011 22:05

I think the issue is Sheep that these children are all currently in nursery with statements so they are in the 2% most severe children in the UK, of which most are in special schools (you nearly always need a statement to go to a special school I understand).

I think it might be likely, that they will not be the only ones with SEN, and possibly statements by the time they all reach the end of KS1 perhaps?

I don't know though. Maybe the school think they are starting out with really bad odds or something.

OP posts:
PolarEyes · 28/01/2011 22:07

ALBC that is what I am saying though I am not saying I am right, just that it is a possibility.

Original poster
ALittleBitConfused · 28/01/2011 22:08

That's not very nice Sad

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amothersplaceisinthewrong · 28/01/2011 22:17

My daughter ended up in a class in primary shcool with 3 or four kids with SEN, one of whom was severely autistic and disruptive. In that year SIX parents removed their kids to private schools because they felt their kids were not getting their fair share of the teacher's attention. Had I had the money I would have done the same. Thankfully the autistic child did leave and go to a school that was better able to cater forom him.

PolarEyes · 28/01/2011 22:21

Not necessarily a bad thing though? I mean if HT needs more £££ from the LA to roll out the provision of the statement/s, their only real option is to refuse on the only grounds they can.(I am going to assume they are a difficult LA). Have the other statemented children definitely had the school already named on their statements? you can't know for sure that the HT isn't fighting another one/all of them.

jellybeans · 28/01/2011 22:24

My DSs had a class with nearly half special needs, they were among them. The needs varied from non English speakers, kids with speech delays, autism and chromosome issues. I was relieved to be honest as see inclusion as a good thing and was glad mine 'weren't the only ones'. I have been horrified by some of the comments from the other parents though, disgraceful. Kids are kids at the end of the day and many will have helpers. It will be good for your child to mix with a diverse range of others. It will be fine.

Original poster
ALittleBitConfused · 28/01/2011 22:26

Well we live in Hertfordshire. I'm not sure about the other statemented children. My friend thinks they are already in the school nursery attached with that named, but they are apparently siblings to older children in the school, at least that is what the HT told her.

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missmehalia · 28/01/2011 22:36

Hi, ALittle. All I mean up-post was that when you get to know children (SEN or not) they become individuals within the class to you, rather than 'a potential problem for the other children' (or something like that). And your enquiry seemed to imply that.

Apologies if I got that wrong!

I hope it goes really well, I'm sure it will. Everyone wants things to be OK for their kids, and I'm sure the parents of those SEN are feeling just as much that way as you are. Possibly more so.

Original poster
ALittleBitConfused · 28/01/2011 22:39

Oh, okay. I can see you mean well miss but I am suspecting now that you haven't read much of the thread Smile

I don't have an issue with SN children. The HT however does appear to which is why I'm wondering if it is the right school to send my non-SN child to. Grin

OP posts:
Malaleuca · 28/01/2011 22:42

One year I had a class with a large number of special needs, only one had a full-time support (dyspraxia/autism/ADHD) but I also had a child with ESL and behaviour, a 'genius' type with extremeley high IQ, a set of identical twins, a child with oppositional defiance disorder, one or two with common or garden poor behaviour from time to time.

So the rest of the class with the normal range of needs (including two from a sect which had to have some curriculum variation) got short shrift as I was completely stretched dealing with the extremes.
That was the year I decided inclusion was not such a great idea, as, of course, I was unskilled and inexperienced in dealing with 3 of the chldren (-the ESL, the genius and the autistic one.)

Those children would have done better with expert help, not usually availble from a classroom teacher who has probably not had the training or experience.

Original poster
ALittleBitConfused · 28/01/2011 22:48

I see Mal, the trouble is, I don't know about the other kids, but my friends ds is academically advanced for his age. There are no special schools that her I know of that take capable children.

It might not be right, but what choice does she have unless the LA pay for a private school with smaller classes or something but hell will have to freeze over before that happens I assume. She had to go to tribunal to even get 15 hours 1:1 (representing full-time at nursery but not as I understand it being increased for reception).

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missmehalia · 28/01/2011 22:53

Aha, ok, sorry about that. I just read the OP and skimmed the early bits rather than the whole lot. (It's a character flaw of mine.) These threads do weave all over, don't they? Hope it goes well, anyway. Smile

Malaleuca · 29/01/2011 01:15

One other point, if you are especially keen on this school, the tough year might just be for one year, because in the light of experience, heads do make adjustments to the whole class make-up.
Things can get better after the receeption year, because more teachers are in-serviced, the special needs children can be spread out, and more outside expertise can be called in.

oddgirl · 29/01/2011 06:00

Blimey-a school in Hertfordshire offering 4 children statments (faints...)

nooka · 29/01/2011 07:15

My ds was very disruptive for a time at school, and for a while he was in a class which happened to have a large proportion of fairly disruptive kids (who were also pretty much normal and generally nice, just a bit wild). The deputy head taught them, and she did say that it could get a bit exhausting - they split them up differently the year after.

Schools can't really predict the dynamics of a classroom - NT children can also be disruptive, they just don't come with any extra funding, and of course many children who do have problems don't get diagnosed that early. I would be worried about this HTs attitude. HTs set the tone for the school, and at primary are hugely influential. If she has a problem with children with special needs then it is quite possible that the school will quickly become less inclusive and the teachers that enjoy that may leave too.

It is possible that having four statemented children might be too much, if the support is insufficient, the teacher unable to integrate the extra help or the classroom too small, but really I think that for reception what matters is whether your ds likes his teacher and makes friends, and that is utterly unpredictable.

Original poster
ALittleBitConfused · 29/01/2011 12:01

Oddgirl, this 'type' of school where children have statements due to their parents resources rather than because their needs typically have them in other parts of the county iyswim.

I think their Ofsted report says that they have average no. of SN but an above average no. of statements. That's what makes me thinkg this.

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