4 children with statements in ds' reception class - help!

[ALittleBitConfused]

DS is due to start reception in Sept. The choice we have for our first choice will have 3 siblings with SEN. One with profound difficulties, one with ASD and one with behavioural probelms. All have statements with 1:1 written in them I believe.

My friend has a ds with ASD and has put down this school, so there will be 4 children with SEN in the class.

Is this likely to impact on the education of my ds if he gets in? It's an overscribed school.

I have heard tittle tattle at our school about some of the children (with SN) being encouraged to leave before Yr6 because they might drag the SATs down.
Our school has quite average SAT results, they are desperate to get a "Good" rather than Satisfactory rating next Ofsted. They would have to get higher SAT results to X that threshold, you see.

Oh well, fuck it! Sounds like this school needs me and my friend!

Incidently, her ds is bloody clever!

I wonder if the school would hae to kick in 60hours (4 x 15). seems unlikey but then again it is possibly not that usual for 4 DC to have statements in a one-class MS school. Is the LA likely to tell your friend this?

FWIW my DS1 is the only statemented child in his class but there are a few other DC who need additional support. My DS1 is on the passive side so there has been a tendency for him to be overlooked (he mainly needs support in social interactions and a small amount of help with dresssing, is mostly ahead in reading/maths/writing etc). But his class teacher is scared of him(!), the HT is crap and the support staff have to follow orders as it were. So even if they had 4 LSAs it really wouldn't make much difference to how things run.

ragged, that's terrible. Where are they encouraged to go?

Good luck to you both, ALBC. :o

'I wonder if the school would hae to kick in 60hours (4 x 15).'

Sorry what do you mean. Do you mean that they would hvae to pay for 60 hours?

Sorry to go go against the grain, but from my point of view then 4 statemented children in a class is not really going to be a good thing in most circumstances. Most statemented kids DON"T get full time support (even though they might need it). There is likely to be times in the day when these children have to fend for themselves with the rest of the class. I have taught lots of children with statements and it doesn't matter how much help they have they can still impact on the way you teach,(depending on the individual child's needs of course. For instance I taught one child who was ASD, he got pretty much full time support, but nothing could take away the fact that he constantly muttered and repeated phrases under his breath all day and wherever he sat he niggled and annoyed the child nearest to him. No amount of 1-1 could stop that or rectify the distraction it provides for the other kids or the teacher. I couldn't isolate him from the class so we all had to live with it!

BunnyWunny, don't apologise. That's a helpful perspective.

yes I mean would the school have to find 60hours a week out of their own budget as doesn't sound doable. sorry for not being clear.

My see the good in people part says, Is it possible HT is being so aggressive about it to ensnare extra funding? e.g. LA atm would tell them to suck up the 60hrs? and this is the HTs chance of getting extra.

My see the not so nice side - Has the HT seen your friend's statement? I wonder if they have and the statement is very specific whether the HT is balking at the prospect. DS1's school very much want flexible wooly, meaningless statements so they can ignore my DS1 have a lot of control.

She got the statement through at tribunal so I think it makes her ds look a lot more severe than he is.

Not saying he doesn't need what is in it, but I know that there is miles more in it than they wanted to give.

I haven't seen it though.

No. My friend was very careful to get the LA to consult with this school before the admissions process opened. She received the negative letter from the LA (From the school) again before admissions even opened.

It's not that. Thanks for suggesting it though.

aLBC: we are in Norfolk and still have some special schools, so I think the push was to send some of the children with SN up there.
Although our school does have a learning support centre for kids with moderate-severe SN, anyway.

One of the mothers who mentioned this pressure to move, moved her son anyway, but the other one stubbornly stuck it out thru Yr6 (good on her), because her DD had such strong friendships at our school.

Not sure if mentioned above as thread quite long, but my DS has mild SEN and he had some support in place. If anything, this benefited the other children in class because he would have an adult come in to do something specifically with him - so

1. the teacher did not have to give her time to DS at this point

2. DS was allowed to select a friend each time to partake in whatever fun that he was up to and these children were pleased to have been chosen and it was commented to me that a particular little girl had hugely enjoyed working with DS's adult and learnt a lot herself.

If these children have a 1:1, then they will be presumably easy for the teacher to supervise because another adult is doing the supervising on behalf of the teacher?

I think it's perhaps not the fact that there are children with SEN, it's a question of the quality of the school.

From what you've said, my guess (which is pretty meaningless ) would be the HT is resistant to your friend's child for either budget reasons or to do with the content of the statement (e.g. there would be a high bar set on provision). I don't think your DC would suffer negatively from 4 DC having statements in a well run class.

I hope your friend gets the place she wants for her DS. It is easy to get an unjust reputation when you take on educational establishments (I am "over-anxious mum" so even when the school are doing stuff wrong they try and infer I am jsut being anxious ) and the support of a good friend can mean the world of difference.

TBH I can see where people are coming from wrt not being a school they would touch with a bargepole, but I don't think my friend has any faith in any school particularly now so she is just going with the one she'd like her ds to go to rather than weighing up the quality of the welcoming party.

I don't think she thinks any school will give her much of one.

My concern was only that the HT does seem to think it will affect the other children. I don't think my friend believes it will affect her ds' education despite the HT saying it would.

OP if I were you I would speak to the school to find out what measures are put in place to ensure that all children receive adequate support. And to put your mind at rest that they are capable of dealing with the situation.

FWIW, and I know I will get flamed for this, when I was in primary school there was a SEN child who allegedly had 1:1 support from an additional member of staff.

The child was incredibly disruptive and the additional member of staff was unable to control the situation. As a result the class teacher had to step in constantly, leaving the rest of the class to their own devices for a very large amount of time. As a result, the majority of the class (in comparison to another class, same age group, same school) were considerably far behind in core maths and english (became apparent on entry to secondary school).

Now I am not saying this in a negative way against SEN children of course, but against schools who do not effectively manage situations. It is the school that you need to speak to, and i don't think it is unreasonable for you to broach the subject, in an understanding and positive way.

It will only affect the other children if the head fails in his/her duty of care. It is the responsibility of the head/senco to ensure that the children's needs are met. If they fail to do so and there is disruption as a result, then the blame lies 100% with them.

Now you see. I KNOW it isn't a school that would risk their SATS by not managing it properly.

This is a good thing right. They're just peed off that they'll actually have to work for them rather than coast with their lovely middle-class kids with their education-supportive parent!?

Or have I perhaps got it all wrong?

Much like your friend's DS's statements makes him sound more severe than he is, the HT saying that it will effect other children is the only grounds on which the school can refuse. Whether the HT truly believes that or has ulterior motives, is something only the HT knows for sure.

This is from the SEN:COP which schools have to pay regard to

8:62 Where an LEA proposes to issue a statement or amend part 4 of an existing statement
they must name the maintained school ? mainstream or special ? that is preferred by the
parents, providing that:
the school is suitable for the child?s age, ability and aptitude and the special
educational needs set out in part 2 of the statement
the child?s attendance is not incompatible with the efficient education of other children
in the school, and
the placement is an efficient use of the LEA?s resources.

My eldest didn't do SATS at his primary school.

I wonder now if that was legal actually. But I didn't question it because I don't actually care about SATS and my son hates tests.

I wonder if missing them off altogether makes a difference to the results.

Agree with Panzee. The more adults in there, the better.

If this is a first child and your first experience of schools, then I understand why you're asking. And as our children are schooled, then we too are educated through their experiences.

So many of us went to school in the day when the SEN kids were stuck at the back with the raffia. It's a bit different these days, and the world is far richer for it.

Why not volunteer to go in and help sometimes? Get to know some of these SEN kids so they become people to you.. I'm in awe of all the ones I know.

i agree with however said to be concerned if there are no children with statements in the class.do you know how hard it is in dd's school to get them to recognise a 'problem'?which is why both ds's go to a different school.

I know of a few families who have been strongly discouraged from enrolling their children in schools (by staff and HTs)

It does happen because everyone is worried about the impact on their funding. If a kid has SNs they get the general SN dependant on how many children there are. So far so good. Then the child gets a statement, but not one that brings additional funding with it (in our borough over a E). So money has to be found out of the general fund. Thats when people get nervy.

Thats my opinion anyhoo.

My DS was in a MS because I thought he should be and could be educated in a MS setting. His disabilites are not severe and with the right support he can learn. Two years later I gave up and moved him to SNS. One of the reasons was the other non SN children who were unkind, disruptive and used my boy as a punchbag.

I HATE the way SN alway bloody = disruptive on MN. I wish my son had been more disruptive. He might have got the attention he deserved and learnt to read. Not only didnt he divert attention from the non SN kids, he got LESS because they couldnt be arsed to repeat things, look at his face when talking to him or even supply him with a home school book.

I bloody hate that school