Westminster Under School

[lvd]

For any parents with sons at Westminster Under (or who know parents with sons at the school): what do you think of the new Master? Have there been any changes in the school since her arrival? Are teachers and students happy? The Open Day in October was very chaotic and it was hard to get a feel for the Master (and for the school) on that day. We had visited previously and liked both the school and the prior Master but now have some doubts. I'd be grateful to read any thoughts from people who are more familiar with the school. In particular, I'm interested to know about the balance of the school between academics and other activities. The prior Master seemed to value a well-rounded education with sports, music and arts complementing the strong academics; the new Master seemed much more focussed on "cerebral boys" and didn't discuss things other than core academic classes.

Anyone waiting to hear from WUS tomorrow? Fingers crossed!

Banditqueen - are you waiting for an 11+ entry result? Good luck! What are your other schools to fall back on?
We will be waiting for 7+ at WUS next Feb and the thought is daunting.

Yep 11+ but I'm not waiting anymore - just had good news!

We had no other schools to fall back on, so even more of a relief...

Sounds a bit silly to say it now, but good luck for your DS this time next year!

Wow! That's fab. Well done. I hope he really enjoys his time there.

Any idea about mini bus for WUS , DS joining sept 13, we live in Fulham

Hi,
Re. your WUS travel question, when you get all the bumph from the school it will include flyers for minibus services. They are quite flexible and just depend on having the right number of takers; we've never managed to use one but we live east of the school where there are fewer boys. I should think in Fulham you'll probably be able to use one of the routes. The office may well be able to give you information now if you ask them. Which year is your boy joining?

My son will start sept 2013, at 7+
I hope the bus service works for us

Hello -

well done to all of you who have offers to your chosen schools. I will be registering my son for this process in October (sitting the 7+ next year). We live in Wandsworth, and right now I really like what I hear about Westminster. Does anyone have a DC in class with someone from there who could advise on how the commute works?

To complicate matters, he has a sister who is 3 years younger. Do any of you with boys at Westminster, also have girls? If so - is there a school near Westminster that would make the commute easier (obviously it would have to be a good fit in other ways too). Thanks!

Hello 7+ mums, my DS will also be going to WU this coming September, we live in Kensington and would need to put him on the bus. I never visited the school and also didnt know there was a bus service. How does it work?

Our son has an offer at WU and Latymer. We are looking for any parents with son at WU or Westminster to shed light on the difference between boys only school & a mixed one like Latymer.
We are not too keen on Saturday school at the senior school and is there a bus service from Shepherds Bush / Holland Park area please???
Thank you.

There is a west London bus service for the Under School but not senior school. It is organised by parents independent of the school.

In the senior school, there will be girls joining in the sixth form.

At the Under School, the all-boys environment enable them to make more like-minded friends.

The Master of Westminster Under School, Elizabeth Hill, was told to clear her desk and go by the Governors resigned from the post quite suddenly due to "health reasons" at the end of the Election (summer) Term 2015.

An interim Master of the school has been appointed (vastly experienced and well regarded) who will serve until September 2016. Applications for the permanent and full time post closed today.

There were very good reasons for her departure and not too much reading between the lines is required to understand them.

I hope this brings closure to a particularly unhappy episode in the school's history.

What should we read between the lines? I thought parents and boys were happy with the Master.

Wow, that's quite a news. I wonder whether this will affect the coming 7+/8+ entry in Jan. Does it mean CC/KCS now has an edge?

Current pupils and their parents may not have noticed much, though many prospective parents 'took a view' on the way she presented herself and the school at open days etc..

'Reading between the lines'......There was a lot of disquiet in the Common Room mainly due to her style of management and general demeanour. I can't say much more but it ran pretty deep and ended up with the Governors stepping in to end it all.

The Governors have only themselves to blame for this since they appointed her even though it was widely known by many that she was totally inexperienced, with quite the wrong profile and background for the post.

The school has an exceptional staff and pretty much runs itself as was the case when one WUS Master died suddenly in post some years ago. Head teachers are there, not least, to facilitate the successful running of the school by the staff. Elizabeth Hill had a deficit of understanding of this important duty.

BTW I'm an ex-WUS teacher.

wow wow wow...
This is what I found on Tatler 2015 report on WUS:
The brainy bunch are here. Their Master (I'm not going to be called Mistress!') is Elizabeth Hill. When she moved in a couple of years ago, Ms Hill changed her office curtains to Westminster School pink. And this place is all about the details. She's kept standards here fantastically high ...

SuperW - The Tatler is like the The Stage...you'll never find a flinty critique of anything in there. What the Tatler totally missed was that the school is emphatically about substance, not window dressing (literally & metaphorically).

Fear not. The school is in very good hands now.

Propitious I noticed on an old post from you a couple of years ago in which you said a boy who is coached is easy to spot. Is that really the case given that all the boys at pre-prep seemed to get tuition? What are the tell tale signs?

Nilpoints: Quite simply you ask them if they had coaching and more often than not they will tell you there and then!

If they say they haven't had help you ask what amounts to the same question in less direct ways.

They are young, ingenuous and enthusiastic boys who will often gush about themselves and their preparation. Remember, they will have got to know their tutor over many weeks and will have developed a rapport and personal relationship with them, so you can normally tease out information about this quite easily.

Some attempt to dissemble but very often give this away with stress-induced body language (shuffling/fidgeting, gestures, no eye contact, too much eye contact etc etc.).

It sounds like an interrogation but it isn't! It's pretty gentle (or was in my day) and more of a conversation where you relax them with informal chat after which information flows more easily. I found humour an important tool during interviews: once you've laughed together it's easier to find the information you need.

Of course the interview process at the Under School will no doubt evolve as time elapses, as will the formal testing procedures. There's a new (interim) head who may have different ideas about the whole process.

Propitious, if mum and dad tutor does that count? I know loads of highly educated city lawyers, bankers and publishers, mainly mothers, who quit (!) their highly paid jobs to coach their kids for entrance exams. Yet parental tutors on mumsnet seem to get all high and mighty saying they didn't "hire" a tutor but did it "themselves" and therefore that doesn't count. Pre-preps also run 7+ and 8+ clubs afterschool. I think we should 'fess up and acknowledge that candidates all receive coaching from some combination of schools, parents and/or tutors. There is no perfect counterfactual for what a child's innate "talent" is in the absence of tutoring so what's the point of interrogating a child about whether they have been tutored? Do schools actively seek to select children who interview less well and say they have not been coached over a child who interviews better and admits he has been coached? I can't think of any children who haven't been coached by some combination of parents or tutors and headmasters will readily acknowledge lots of parents lie. The schools seem to be disingenuous to say "don't coach" when they select candidates who have been coached.

Anotherdrink: You make many valid points. The coaching issue is a thorny one for parents and the Under School. All I can say is that in my day we were looking for the depth of the raw talent that lay beneath the 'coached' polished exterior so as not to disadvantage the very bright candidates whose parents were unable for all sorts of different reasons (not least financial) to provide coaching. We tried to level the playing field albeit with imperfect methods.

It is worth bearing in mind that the demographics for WUS entry exam candidates are not quite as homogeneous as those inside the London Mumsnet bubble might think. We used to see a wide range of young boys turn up for entry exams from all sorts of different backgrounds & many had received no coaching at all. Very bright candidates from state primaries were often disadvantaged because they were behind in reading, maths and english through no fault of their own. These candidates would have benefited from some coaching, in particular in the more formal side of testing (verbal reasoning etc etc.) since they had little relevant experience of it.

Oxbridge entrance is exactly the same and this happens in the London day prep scene only 10/11 years or so earlier. Both systems are looking for the real talent. Oxbridge now use methods/approaches to level the playing field.

There is an palpable tension between parents and top flight London day preps at selection. A good number of parents want their offspring to gain selection no matter how marginal a candidate their son/daughter might be. Schools want the best and most able candidates, the ones with real talent who they can teach & will go far....not the ones who'd benefited from a coaching 'makeover' that papered over the cracks in their ability. The problem nowadays, as you point out, is that the trend is for more and more candidates to seek out coaching, even the most able ones! As competition for London day prep places increases so will the already high levels of hysteria (read as: coaching) that goes with it.

Coaching is an intractable issue that's not going to go away any time soon.

I hope (probably a little too indirectly) I answered your questions!

@Michaelahpurple

Posada - we are (so far!) utterly delighted with the school. Whilst he was perfectly happy at his last school, he has really blossomed at WUS. He comes out every day relaxed, happy and excited to tell me about his day and seems to be having a terrific time. I am slightly freaked out by how little (in my eyes) of his time is timetabled with his core class teacher (covering maths, english, science, history and geog ie the academic core) compared to music, art, sport and extraordinarily long playtimes, but keep telling myself that they must know what they are doing. There is also very light homework loading compared to our last school, although about twice every three weeks they get something really chewy (ie challening, unusual, and needing quite a bit of parental input/guidance). I had worried about going from being top cadre to ordinary and how he would take that, but it seems, suprisingly, to have been a huge relief for him. He revels in others' successes which most certainly was not part of his previous character and seems really excited by the stars (eg year 4s taking grade 6 cello) without feeling insecure. The junior musical last term was really interesting - clearly there were some highly talented individuals but, more excitingly, the school extracted some great performances from the non-drama types (of which my son is one). Finally, there is a marvellous atmosphere in the class, of co-operation and helpfulness. I don't know how the school instills it so fast, or avoids clicques of the 7+ boys, the Wetherby hordes etc but they do. So, chuffed to bits so far, but still waiting for the shoe to fall on the homework/pressure fronts - so far v relaxed and jolly. I have to assume that year 5 will be a lot tougher.

Hi Posada We have a dilemma between QE boys and WUS? How was your experience with WUS? Especially senior school and university admissions assistance. Thanks