please help - should ds start school this Sept or not?

[baskingseals]

Ds1 will be 4 on the 25th August this year. Dh and other people in the family think he should start school the following week. I am really torn about it. I like having him around, and I think he is too young to go anyway. Dh says it's about my inability to let go. I really don't know what to think. He will either be the absolute youngest or oldest in his year (if he goes next year). I just wondered if anybody had any experience of this sort of situation and could give some advice. Thanks.

No problem

Hope OP sees it too.

Thanks so much cabbage - being harrased, will try to post later

Cool!

my ds is a june baby and I worried a lot - here you can defer to Jan, didn't in the end as most advice was not to...his best friend in his class is a 31 Aug (big summer born intake that year 12 kids between june and Aug !) neither had done pre school and they were all fine -loved reception was very child led - I would talk to the teachers at the briefings you get prior to starting ours was in Jun/July.

I think really depends on the quality of the teachers. My back up option was short days but ds even though shattered was distraught when we once had to leave at lunchtime hth

Actually my dd1 didn't start until January even though she was 5 in September, so I think this was true of last year as well. We were living overseas and couldn't get back easily until Christmas so the school and LEA agreed to hold her place. They did this even though it was a very oversubscribed school.

cabbage thank you for taking the time to post that info - very interesting. Could I ask you why you have decided to send your dd in January? Are you concerned at all about her forming friendships?

I felt four was too young for my daughter to start school, even though she was an outgoing confident child and even though she would have been the eldest in her year. I decided not to worry what anyone else was doing, but instead to send her to school at what I considered to be a reasonable age, six or seven. I've met a number of other parents who did the same by home educating for a while.

If you postpone your child's school start not just by a term or a year but until you feel he is actually ready, it takes all the pressure off. Contrary to many people's fears that a later school start will be harmful to a child's social development and academic progress, I think the opposite is true. With one-to-one attention, there is no danger of being left behind. Children can work at their own rate. The older they get, the easier it is when they do start school.

By waiting a year or two or three, not only do you know for a fact that your child can cope academically, you also know he can sit still, have the energy for a full school day without being shattered, deal with the toilet without fear or accidents, interact maturely with other children, and be away from mum happily for six hours.

Why not consider home education until you are comfortable about your son starting school, and he is keen to do so? It isn't precious to want to be with your child while he is so little. Sure, he might cope if he goes to school now. He might not: many Mumsnet posts tell of four year olds who are quite stressed by it. And anyway, I think just "coping" isn't good enough. You could wait until you are sure he will thrive and be happy there. When that time comes, school is a painless decision.

Excellent post, Saracen. I completely agree with you.

Stranded as far as I know it wasn't legally binding for the LEA to hold places until now - but I'm really pleased that they agreed to. Sound like a competent bunch!

Basking, no - not worried at all about forming friendships. It will happen when he starts, whether it's at the same time as the rest or a bit later. I'd honestly never really considered that might be a problem - things are very fluid in terms of class dynamics for the first year at least.

I'd far rather take a risk with that aspect that send him when he is patently unable to cope - I don't know yet but Ds1 really struggled with processing it all, was mentally and physically exhausted and often came home to fall asleep immediately and wake at 10pm crying and hungry and still cross.
Half days worked well giving him the chance for an afternoon nap and recharge but school were not happy with this so eventually we quit at Easter and though they agreed to hold the place, they changed their minds so we HE'd for a bit till another place came up in yr1.
By this time Ds1 was far more able to manage a day at school. The difference a year makes is astonishing - he would remember to eat and drink, use the loo etc when in reception these things frequently got overlooked, which was dreadful - to know nobody checked, nobody was looking after him in that way.
Many of the other mums and dads said their children were extremely tired and fed up too, but they thought it best to leave them there to adjust and adjust they did.
It worked for them but I don't think forcing a child to be ready when they will be ready in their own time a few months later is necessarily a good thing - and thankfully we now have the option not to do this.

Good luck whatever you decide to do but my advice is always the same: look to your individual child and their maturity, both physical and mental, not what everyone else is doing. their children might be different. It's like expecting babies to walk at the same time...all of them are ready at different times, it doesn't mean they are faulty.

my ds1 is an August born. I too was concerned and did wonder if i should defer his place.

I am so glad i didn't

Maturity wise he was young but academically he was very ready.

He did go to nursery though - and I have to agrees with ChippingIn that by not sending him has disadvantaged him (and you) in gaining the confidence in being apart.

My ds1 would have jumped straight into yr1 which would have been awful. Reception year is fundamental in so many things at a school, and my ds1 found it a big shock anyway in year1 having to do so much formal work.

Could you imagine what that would be like for a child who had never gone to school? Also he would be so far behind that I would wonder if he was disadvantaged further.

Ds1 only went to preschool VERY part time for about 6 weeks, hated it, and stopped going well before the summer hols. When he started reception his confidence was FINE, he ran in smiling and making all the yr6 girls laugh. He was sorted.

It was just everything else - coping with eating, drinking, using the toilets, and remembering where everything was and doing what the teachers told him to. Hopeless. and exhausting for him.

It's very individual but I would never say that a child was 'disadvantaged' by not having been to nursery.

thanks again for your posts and support. Saracen I also completely agree with you and would be happy to home-educate, but I have an incredibly conventional dh who is set against it. So how do I do that? It's so difficult, dh finds it frightening to go against the tide, how can I dispel his fears?cabbage sorry I said dd in my earlier post and thank you for explaining further. I still can't escape the feeling that 4 is just too young for any child to go to school, and I worry that by sending ds I will put him under unessercary pressure. No 4yo should be worrying about where the loos are or how to open up their packed lunch.

"Could you imagine what that would be like for a child who had never gone to school? Also he would be so far behind that I would wonder if he was disadvantaged further."

I don't have to imagine it, having seen it. It is a question of maturity. When they are ready, it is no problem. They are not always ready at four, or even at five or six.

The assumption that children who aren't at school will fall behind is based on the belief that kids don't learn outside of school. They do. Anyone who has spent time with a baby or toddler knows how quickly they learn, with or without nursery. Nothing changes when they reach the age of four. They don't just stop learning, remaining in a state of suspended animation until sent to school. They grasp mathematical concepts, improve fine motor control, become more interested in reading, start to understand friendships.

School in the early years is so widespread that people have forgotten it is not the only way to learn. It has never been demonstrated to be the best way to learn. Ask anyone who has home educated, or whose children were brought up in a country where school starts later than it does here. Such children do not fall behind. They just learn in a different way in a different place.

"Saracen I also completely agree with you and would be happy to home-educate, but I have an incredibly conventional dh who is set against it. So how do I do that? It's so difficult, dh finds it frightening to go against the tide, how can I dispel his fears?"

That's a tricky one, faced by many parents including me. Doing something different is a scary prospect for some people. A few suggestions:

• Suggest keeping your son out of school for a fixed time (say a year) with the understanding that the two of you will look at it again after that and decide the best way forward.

• Remind your dh that the legal requirement to educate your child doesn't start for another year. You've been offered an extra year of early schooling for your son, which is optional. Just because it's on offer doesn't mean you have to take it up. Also remind him that the usual school starting age has been creeping downward. Tell him you feel it's rather radical to start school so young - I imagine you and he probably started at rising-five yourselves rather than just-four, didn't you?

• The evidence in favour of school for four year olds could be described as shaky at best. The Rose Review came out in favour, having been commissioned by a Government which was already committed to early schooling. The far more detailed and better-respected Cambridge Review into Primary Education reached the opposite conclusion, having been independently commissioned by a charity with no axe to grind. The conclusions of this major three-year study were dismissed by the Government in just a few lines.

• Meet some local families with children a bit older than yours who don't go to school. Your dh may be reassured to find how "normal" many of these families are and how well-adjusted their children seem.

• Talk to him in a general way about his (and your) hopes and ambitions for your son. If he focuses on his child, and thinks about what his son needs and how much he loves him, it may help give him the courage to be different. Such a conversation was the turning point for me and my husband. He realised that really the only thing that mattered was his little girl's happiness.

You might come to a home education forum such as the one here at Mumsnet if you'd like to chat more about it.

basingseals
I am kind of confused by how little you seem to know about school when you have a DD already at that self same primary

You know how she coped surely and you know how the school react. You must also know when the school starting dates are if you have already done all this once?

Did you not find the difference between YR and Y1 mindblowing for your DD? Are you not worried what that will be like for your DS?

When DD started how did they deal with summer birthdays?

My DD - late summer born - started in the January, mornings only. I was very glad to have her at home during the autumn term, and she did settle in well.

That said, her not-very-good reception teacher put her in a remedial group because she started late. This made her very unhappy. She did struggle a bit to fit in - but was fine by year 1.

I think whatever you do it is difficult with a summer-born child - especially boys. A primary-school teacher told me it was best to start your child with everyone else if s/he was at all awkward socially and best to defer if they were confident since they would benefit from extra time with mum.

Btw, a friend went abroad for a year and started her DC in year one. It has been fine. Personally I would go with your instincts, which sound good to me!

thanks again for posting. My dd's birthday is late winter, and is a very different child to ds. At the school there is a new reception teacher, and as another poster has mentioned the rules of deferring a place has recently changed. Hope this explains why I seem misinformed.

We went to pre-school this morning. Not the most roaring success I have to say. ds was bitten while playing at the sand table, he then whacked the little boy with his spade - and then got upset when the sand table was put away. Meanwhile ds2 is constantly roaming around requiring pretty much full on supervision (he's 17 months) - so of course when I'm focusing on him, it's all going down at the sand table.

I've had another chat with dh, who will not budge. the best I've got out of him is that if ds is unhappy we can take him out of school, but he still wants him to start this Sept. I think that I've still got another 8 months or so to get him to reconsider

thank you for telling me to trust my instincts and that I'm not being precious, and for sharing your experiences, it is helping me feel fairly normal and not some weird obsessive over-protective loon.

How long till the deadline for applying for a place for this year (even if you don't actually send him till later under this new rule)?

OP seems to be deliberately avoiding the deadline for application for some reason . Unless they are not in England which was 15th Jan

FWIW my DD2 is an Aug born and will go when she is 4. Our school if they don't start in Reception and go to kindy instead then they join in Yr1 or Yr2

I wonder if the OP has made her decision to home educate by default, if they've missed the deadline so even if they apply now they end up with a place miles away.

deadlines vary actually, in our LA it was in December, maybe in the Op's it is Feb? Or she may have applied and be hesitating.

"I've had another chat with dh, who will not budge. the best I've got out of him is that if ds is unhappy we can take him out of school, but he still wants him to start this Sept."

I know it wouldn't be your number one choice, but that is not such a bad result so far. If your dh is as nervous of bucking the mainstream as you say, it is quite brave of him to consider the possibility of removing his son from school "just" because he's unhappy. It sounds like your discussions are bearing fruit.

There are a few things which might be worth keeping in mind if you and your dh decide to go with the plan of trying school and removing your son if he's unhappy.

Might he lose his school place if that happens? The place will be held for him if you defer his start without sending him in the first place, but if he goes to school and then comes out, I'm not sure he can keep the place if someone else wants it. (Of course, if he absolutely hates school then you might not want the place anymore. But would you have the option to remove him from school for a couple of terms before sending him back in the summer?) If this is a concern, maybe it would be worth writing to the LA so they can clarify the situation.

How long would you give it? How unhappy would your son have to be before it is time to take him out? Many people who are wavering about school send their children with the idea of removing them if it doesn't work out. But once the child is at school, if things don't go well everyone tells them to give it just a little longer, and a little longer: "it's just settling problems, you can't expect them to have adjusted in the first term, don't be seen to be giving up, don't waste the energy you've already invested in adjusting to school, you'll only have to go through all this again later if you take him out now, keep him in because maybe he'll be happier with the structure in Y1 or a new teacher next year..." It can be a bit of a trap, being in an environment where everyone else is committed to school.

It could be helpful to chat with your dh about how much unhappiness would be too much to make your son go through before deciding to change courses. Is it acceptable if he is exhausted and difficult at home but performs well at school? If he doesn't complain, but simply loses his spark? If he cries every morning about going to school but then cheers up after he is there? If he says he likes school but he starts behaving quite badly? Then you'll know whether the two of you are on the same page.

I would send him but agree that it would be mornings only certainly for the first term. Perhaps defer until January if thats an option.

DS1 in reception, he's 4. Its somewhere inbetween nursery and school. Lots of time to do structured play but also they learn letters & numbers. I thought he would be too young but he loves it and is happy there until 3.30pm each day.

If you defer he might have to go straight to year 1 and that would be very tough, being youngest in the year and having missed out on reception.

thanks again - Saracen, that is really good advice and I will definitely have that discussion with dh.

the primary school that ds will be going to is extremely small, so there is no worry that there won't be a place for him, they are desperate for children to enroll.

MumNW - could I ask when is your ds's birthday? Were you worried before he started?

My Ds's birthday is 31st august (and he was born two weeks early) and he is now in yr1.

I was worried about him starting reception in the sept as he just seemed so little

But tbh he was fine

He really struggled with tiredness but I think they all did even the older kids in his class iyswim.

I think the best thing to do is to start him in the Sept and then assess how he is doing. if he is really struggling then maybe he can go down to doing half days or 3full days a week instead.

Ds is now in yr1 and is in the top groups at school and has settled in well