Teachers - what is your view of this

[northernterritory]

I am looking for a teacher's view of this. I am a Governor at my DD's school. I have my doubts about some of their practices. The teachers don't seem to work much directly with te kids. Big classes etc. But they ave special help at the top and special help at the bottom. The 'average' group seems to be left to it until they slip through the net at occasional assessments.

They have just assessed the kids to find out who the 'bottom group' is.

This 'bottom group' will now go on an hour a day intensive literacy course for the next 16 weeks with a TA to 'get them up to scratch' for the time the school take their 'optional' external marked SATS in May - all Juniors take them.

Is this an effective way of teaching? Is it par for the course to see, every so often, who's falling beind and then apply a bit of resources to catch them up for SATs time.

They seemed to do exactly the same every year.

I'd seriously like your opinion!

Sorry I have trouble with the 'h' key on my laptop!

Is this an effective way of teaching?
not IMHO these children need to be taught by a teacher and what are the rest of the class doing while these children are withdrawn?

I think it is far to put extra resources into help those who are behind

Yes it's fair just not the most effective

Mr Z that's a very generalised comment , often TAs are much more experienced and better at the actual teaching than teachers are.

Really? so why are teachers called teachers?

Of course those children that are falling behind should be identified and worked with to help them catch up. Surely the rest of the class will be being taught while they are getting their lessons?
The optional SATS are internally marked.

Yes the rest of the class will be taught while they are withdrawn and they will miss all that teaching because they are out of the class with the TA. Support should be in addition to not a substitute for normal day to day lessons led by the teacher.

I guess that depends how far behind they are, and whether they can access the rest of the teaching. Of course they should be differentiated for and recieve their fair share of the teachers time. Both my LSAs are perfectly capable of teaching a small group under my direction.

By withdrawing them they are missing vital teaching and the gap grows rather than narrows far better to support them in the class and provide additional support at other times.

Pf course, mrz is right. Our Literacy policy (which I wrote) states that children should never be withdrawn during Literacy - how can they catch up if they miss what their peers are learning? It must be additional support.

Katiestar, TAs who are 'much more experienced and better at the actual teaching than teachers are' may exist, but are not the norm.

Pf? of

I agree with mrz, the additional support should be exactly that.
As a governor having doubts, you should really be asking these questions of your own school.
Most teachers work with a targeted group during an activity, and rotate around the class throughout the week so that all of the children receive appropriate support.

'often TAs are much more experienced and better at the actual teaching than teachers are.'

Some TAs are simply amazing. Others are excellent within a specific skill set.
Some are opinionated and arrogant, with a limited understanding of teaching methods and a superiority complex.
Just depends on the individual really, and how well the school select their staff.

But whenever you withdraw them they will be missing something. Depending on the group of children sometimes the correct professional decision can be to withdraw them from literacy because (for example) there is little point them learning how to add subordinate clauses to create complex sentences when they cannot use a full stop correctly.
The OP does not state exactly when the hour a day intensive support will be delivered.

Sorry but I disagree the role of the LSA should be to help them to access the teaching within the classroom under your direction.

Children have to be very, very far behind to justify missing out on the same Literacy teaching as their peers. I have had SEN children working at P8/1c in Year 5, and it's clearly not appropriate for them to try to access Y5 teaching. But we aren't talking about severe SEN needs here, just children who need, and presumably are able to, catch up.

I think we will have to agree to disagree! I use my LSAs in both ways - more often than not within the classroom supporting the children (I teach y5 and am really working on increasing the children's confidence and independence as I am very aware there isn't long to go until high school). However I would have absolutely no problem with them withdrawing a group and offering intensive support.

Am at how they can be expected to catch up when missing the direct teaching their peers are allowed to access.

Actually we provide the additional support before school, lunchtime or after school so they miss nothing their classmates have access to.

We tend to do the same - before school, after school and assembly times.

I am not a teacher (yet) but I would not be happy with that at all.

OP - I think what you are witnessing is League Tableness. It happens in secondary schools too.

Lots of time and effort is thrown at the students who could convert their GCSE d grade to a C (as that is where the school will be recorded as super-successful). Nobody really cares if all the "C" grade students turn to a B or an A.

Well, the TEACHERS do, the PARENTS do, the STUDENTS themselves do, but it doesn't go down well with the Daily Mail/Telegraph/Ofsted/local paper.

Welcome to the real world (of education).

I would add that we assess 4 times a year and interventions run throughout the year, not just at SATs time.

My lower ability children( indeed any of my children) NEVER miss literacy and numeracy, both I believe are the key to functioning in the "real world" outside of school life and any additional support is provided in addition to the differentiated work they receive within the lesson. I wish this could all be covered outside of teaching time but it isn't, so I ensure that any additional support they receive is rotated through the week so they never always miss the same subject/activity. Within the class they are currently supported 2 days a week by my VERY experienced TA and 2 days a week by myself, the fifth lesson of the week is for independent work. This increases through the year as they aim to gain independence and confidence before moving on to secondary ( I teach yr 5/6)

Our interventions run continually too. Our absolutely fantastic LSA works in the class with the teacher and all children benefit.