Support and advice needed, please: son miserable at school

[ToffeeChristmascake]

Forgive the long back story here, but it is necessary. I feel really down about this today and could do with some MN wisdom.

My son (11 and in his last year at primary) is dyslexic and has problems with anxiety/OCD. We have had a lot of problems with school over the years. He had a very difficult time in his early years and was quite disruptive. Once he was diagnosed as dyslexic (at 6), he received the extra help and understanding he needed and his disruptive behaviour stopped. However, the anxiety that manifested itself in disruptive behaviour now turned into OCD behaviour - rituals such as hand washing, checking things, shutting the bedroom door a set number of times, etc. We have been to CAMHS more than once to help him.

Two years' ago, his anxieties became so great that he became hysterical every morning before school. He was unable to face going into class, so spent half days in the school office and came home in the afternoons. We were seeing CAMHS at the time for help with his anxieties, so we were given a lot of support in helping him to overcome his fears. He was given his own teaching assistant - a wonderful, intuitive woman, who was a great support for him through this time. He is a brave boy and he managed to overcome his fears and get back to school full time and without a TA.

The next year went well. However, things have deteriorated since his return to school in September. He feels that he does not fit in with his classmates, he finds playtime stressful, he finds lessons either boring or stressful. He seems to worry all the time.

He feels sick a lot; he has stomach aches a lot; he complains of having nightmares about going back to school; his hands are dry from all the hand washing; he spends large parts of the day completing rituals to make himself feel safe.

I keep an eye on him constantly to see how he is, as he does not always want to talk about it. I have noticed all that was going on, but I hoped that two weeks' relaxation at Christmas might restore him.

Today, he told me how unhappy he was and asked me, not for the first time, to home educate him until he went to secondary. I pointed out that this might make the transition to secondary school much harder for him. In fact, I would do it like a shot if I thought it was the right thing to do. I hated forcing him go to school when he was so unhappy about it two years ago, but I did not want him to become school phobic. He does say now that he is no longer scared of school - he is simply miserable.

I'm planning to go in and discuss this with the headmistress when term starts, but, in the meantime, any advice and support would be much appreciated.

Home Educate him.

Poor boy and poor you having to watch him be so unhappy.

No words of wisdom, but if it was me I would seriously look inot home educating if it is a possibility at all for you.

If he can learn how to relax and enjoy life again, surely that is really important. It would take so much pressure off him and could help all his OCD issues. It could be long term though. A very good friend took her son out to HE at about 5 years old for the same sort of reasons and he has just started in a small mainstream school and is doing really well and absolutely loves it now. He is now 14.

I have a friend whose son went through this. She moved him to a different primary school for his final year and it seemed to help a lot.

My own son went through a stage of stomach aches and vomiting every day. The school was supportive and kept him at school rather than 'reward' him for vomiting by sending him home.

We came to the conclusion that he wasn't actually unhappy at school - it was all fear of the unknown and separation anxiety.

He was given distraction strategies to cope with his feelings and dealt with it in a very mature way. I did actually tell him that I would home ed him if he wished, but he thought that school seemed preferable!

He's now 17 and is a well adjusted young man who did quite well at GCSE and has stayed on for the 6th form to pursue A levels in good academic subjects.

Thank you so much! It is so encouraging to hear from other people.

IndigoBell - please expand! (do you home ed, by any chance?)

PA - hello again - and thanks for posting here. HE really could be a possibility for me at the moment, as I'm not working FT. It is very encouraging to hear about your friend's experience. I so agree with you about him learning to relax and enjoy life again. Life seems like a series of hurdles for him, which it surely shouldn't be at his young age. He was so different in the summer holidays and I hate to see him so tortured again after one term back at school.

Pixie - thanks for confirming that I should see the head. Thankfully, she seems very clued up about children with SN, so I'm hoping she will have some good ideas. Also, I agree with you about doing something about the OCD. We were discharged from CAMHS with the words, "Well, if your 'habits' don't bother you, they don't bother me". Actually, my son was just desperate to get out of there and didn't want to work on any more issues. I don't think I can face going through CAMHS again, plus I know we'll be on the waiting list again, so we are hoping to go private in the new year.

And the idea of goals to work towards is very good. The thing I need to do is work with the school. A few years ago, this was an uphill struggle, but the school has changed a lot for the better since then, and I think there would be more support this time.

My knee-jerk reaction is to take him out of school straight away, but you are right that I must explore other options first.

Fortyplus - my son finds change incredibly stressful (was assessed for AS twice), so I don't think changing schools would help. However, I find it really encouraging to hear about your own son and how he turned out in the end. Thank you.

Hi, I home educate my younger son. We only found out about HFA/AS being an issue 9 months after deregistration. That explained a lot.

It has been 3 years now and he has just turned 13. We are autonomous home educators.

I have gained loads of support from the home ed section here on Mumsnet and also on the discussion list accessed from:

www.he-special.org.uk

Toffee, I know very, very little about your DS's type of SN, but for what it's worth, I do hope that you find a solution that works for you both. The reason why I am posting with nothing worthwhile to add, is that I am appalled at what CAMHS said to you / your DS when he was discharged! Did you take it up with them? Did you take the matter further?

I really do hope that you get the proper support and advice that you need.

Thanks for that link, Milou2. I've had a quick look and it looks very useful. Will have a proper look later, after bedtimes are over.

Numberfour - I agree with you. The nurse was leaving the practice and just wanted to clear his books and discharge my son. I knew that. But I was in pieces by then and couldn't fight anymore.

What I did do, however, was insist on a second assessement for AS (we thought that might be the reason for our son's extreme anxiety), so we were still under CAMHS for a while longer. DS had overcome his school fear, had an understanding teacher the next year and seemed better, so, when the second assessment was negative, we were relieved and happy for our son to be discharged. We hoped that he wouldn't have any more problems.

Thanks for your kind words.

Have had a good chat with my son about his worries this evening. From what he says, his teacher does not understand his character or his dyslexic issues and gets impatient with him. And his classmates make him feel insignificant and left out. It sounds as if they are quite mean to him at playtime. His self-confidence is at an all-time low.

There is one boy that he gets on with in his class at the moment and I have invited him over to play before the new term. Hopefully, that will cheer my son up and give him the sense of an 'ally' when he goes back to school.

He seems much happier since our chat. I have assured him that I will make sure things change for the better and he seems encouraged by this.

New Year's Resolutions - make appointment for DS to get help with his anxiety; and see the head about ways to make school more bearable in the meantime.

Fortunately, at the end of last term, I had already mentioned the playtime issues to two teachers in charge of running social-skills classes and they are going to set up some circle-time sessions to talk about this with my son's class.

That all sounds good Toffee, your plans I mean, not that your DS is low, obviously.

Try Cbt.
Dd went rough Cahms at 11 for Ocd and hated it.
Eventually had about 3 months worth of Cbt/hypnotherapy which helped enormously.
SHe can control it more, is happier and copes at school. I wouldn't,t take him out of school.

If it were my son Id HE. However, you need to think about whether youd be willing to HE at secondary age too because its very possible that he'll like being at home & learning so much that he wont want to go back!
Maybe you could talk to the head about flexi-schooling him, at least for now? Perhaps he could just go in on the days you work? It would give him more time at home, more time to wind down etc but also mean he doesnt 'lose touch' with the school system if you are determined he goes to secondary? Just an idea.
It sounds to me like you have been round the houses with everything trying to help him, so choosing HE wouldnt be on a whim! Your boy sounds very stressed.

Deaddei - a friend recommended hypnotherapy for our son a while back and we still have the details of the hypnotherapist. It is certainly something we could try. My son had CBT to cope with anxiety before and it worked (got him back to school at least), but it was very hard. I like the idea of something that would help him to calm himself down. I'm glad your daughter is so much better now - it's very encouraging for me to hear success stories.

Yamba - flexi-schooling sounds like a great idea, but I do want to try to make school better for him first. If he continues to be unhappy and stressed, I will suggest it to the head. I'm not sure how well I would cope with HEd to be honest.

My son's friend is coming round the day before they go back to school, so I'm hoping that that will make going to school the next day that little bit easier.

oh toffee, just found the original thread, sorry if anything i said on other thread didn't fit the back story.
It does sound as if new teacher is a lot to blame for his current dislike of school, not just inherent difficulties.
Having HE'd ds for a while when he had a v bad broken leg, I think it was v. interesting how quickly he relaxed and enjoyed the life we had together, chatting pottering, bit of education but not too much, listening to music, bit of projects here and there, science experiments, bit of textbook stuff, no formal deadlines for anything.. Teacher said he had massively improved when he returned, she sounded very surprised at the change in his attentiveness. I think he learnt that it was fun to be at school, and valued the social side of it more for having been at thome with me. I suppose that was a different situation (he was housebound), but I learnt from it that a) education is not just about tasks but about communicating, freeing yourself up to explore what interests you. We had very little written work to show for our three months together - so HE is quite different from school, possibly only an hour of formalwork a day????
Ds was glad to get back to school though. I think it was part of him feeling more confident in himself and knowing he was valued. This was in year five.
Apropos HE, Someone once told me that it also takes quite a while to "detox" from school...you can't just take them out and expect everything to be perfect and replicate the school day at home, as they are so used to being part of a system, whether they were made miserable by it or not. HE has to be something different from school entirely.

I Home Ed two DS. DS1 asked to be home educated at 6 years old and I persuaded him and myself that school was always best! By the time he was in yr 3 he was a sad, lonely and sullen child who despite being bright, had little motivation to learn. I really regret not having listened to him sooner. Although within a short time I have a happy and motivated child again.

You say that you insisted your son go to school so that he wouldn't become school phobic, this puzzles me because it's a little like saying "I want you to know the oven is hot, so stick your head in it" If school is the cause of your son's distress, continuing to send him there will not cure his distress unless the main attributes of the environment change, class size, size of buildings, many children, few adults, most of his time spent in social activities, etc

Yamba makes a very interesting point its very possible that he'll like being at home & learning so much that he won?t want to go back It depends how important you feel happiness is to a child's development. I think it's not just desirable but necessary.

I am not anti-school, I work part time in schools with a lot of happy children who love school. Schools are generally flexible and try to meet the needs of the vast majority of kids, but when a child can not make the necessary adjustment to that environment or that impacts upon the child's mental health, even with the allowances made, who's right is it to say "damn it we'll make him fit, we'll make this work at all costs"

Minimaths - thanks so much for your response. I'm really glad HE worked out so well for you and your son.

In answer to your query about the school phobia: the point about a phobia is that it's irrational, whereas it is a rational fear to be afraid of a hot oven. I was advised that the worst thing my son could do was give in to his fear as it would reinforce the phobia. If you face the situation you are afraid of, assuming the fear is an irrational one, the fear peaks and then subsides and you learn that the situation is not threatening. My son's fear of going to school manifested itself in a fear of vomiting. The poor boy felt sick from anxiety, but he was never actually sick. By continuing to go into school - but in the relatively safe environment of the school office - he gradually learned that his fear of vomiting was unfounded. Once he had proved this to himself and gained confidence, he began to venture outside the office and eventually was reintroduced to the classroom, although he never had to go back to that particular teacher. Although he finds school difficult, he does well provided he has an understanding teacher.

Of course, there are reasons why my son became so anxious that he thought he was going to vomit in the first place, and these are the issues that I am concerned about. He had a year after that with some exceptionally understanding teachers, which built up his confidence. I think they understood him and his dyslexia, so he relaxed. The trouble now, I suspect, is that the new teacher doesnt 'get' him, so his anxieties are building up again.

If I can get the issues that are making him anxious sorted out again, I hope that I am teaching him that difficulties can be overcome and give him confidence in overcoming problems in the future. If he continues to be miserable, in spite of my intervention and that of the teachers, then I wouldn't hesitate to take him out, as I agree with you that happiness is vital to a child's development and to his or her ability to learn. So I would not try to make it work at all costs.

I recently met a teenage girl who was one of a family of home-educated children. She was so bright and articulate and altogether lovely - what a fantastic advert for home education. However, I can't help thinking she must have an amazing mum and I'm not at all sure that I could live up to that myself. I worry that I might let my son down if I try to home educate him. And I'm also not sure I have the patience, as he can be incredibly difficult, especially with me. However, if it comes to it, I will do it and just do my best. His happiness comes first.

Hi Toffee,

You may have answered this one already, I cant remember, but as I read through these last few posts I understand that you want to give the school a go and get DS the help and understanding her deserves to make things less stressful for him. Have you sat with the teacher and REALLY explained DSs anxieties with her/him? If DS doesn't "click" with them, is there a TA that he can click with that he could see as someone who would be there for him?

DD3 had many issues at school (which are irrelevant here), but there were just a few teachers through her time at school where she clicked with them. The years she had these teachers she did soooooo well compared to any other year, so dont underestimate the pupil/student relationship.

I do understand your feelings about not being able to HE your DS. However, DD asked for years if she could be HE-ed. I alway thought there was no way I could do it, especially as she was dyslexic and dyspraxic. When she got to year 10 (I know its a long way off for you) she HAD to be HE-ed due to illness, for the rest of her time at school. Within a very short time I realised how much pressure she had been under and she very quickly relaxed and became a much nicer teenager! We enjoyed learning things and her attitude to education became so much better than it had been while at school.
I am not saying you need to HE, but what I am saying is, don't be scared of doing it if it comes to it. You wont be educating the stressed out boy you have now, you will be having fun with a more relaxed boy!

Sorry, waffling now. probably not making much sense. Just hope it goes well tomorrow.

Dont be scared to stand up for DS. If you don't, no-one else will. Put DS before any feelings of not wanting to make a fuss, or upset the school, DS is more important than that!!
Good Luck

I personally would HE for now if you can. All the additional negative experiences he is gaining from school is not going to make secondary any easier.
Does he take part in any out of school clubs? Maybe he would feel more comfortable making friends out of a learning environment.

Just having a quick check in the midst of putting boys to bed, but thank you so much for your thoughts. It really means so much. Will come back later. Thank you.

Toffee - it sounds like you are/have managed the situation very well.
You need to work out whether home edding is going to be feasible just for the rest of Year 6 if you are planning on schooling from Year 7. I also think that you need to get back into your son's current school and explain how things are just now for him. What can they do to help him through the next few months?
FWIW - Year 6 can be very tough due to firstly the imminent change to Secondary School and secondly the arrival of puberty for many children in that year. It makes it an unsettling time for many...

PA - no, I haven't had a meeting with his teacher yet, but will do. Am very encouraged to hear that you home educated your dyslexic and dyspraxic daughter and that it was so beneficial. I agree with: 'Put DS before any feelings of not wanting to make a fuss....'etc.

LB29 - ds has been to various clubs and always tires of them. Group activities make him uncomfortable. We have tried martial arts, swimming and football. At the moment, he doesn't want to go to any clubs at all and I haven't pushed him because I can see that it is enough for him to cope with school.

OM - thanks for your advice and the info about Year 6 being tricky, which makes sense.

I have made an appointment to see the head tomorrow. Also rang the secondary school to ask which level of assessment they would prefer if we had him reassessed for dyslexia and treated with cbt for his anxiety: was told that legally the school doesn't need to follow any recommendations made by a private educational psychologist and told I should push for help from CAMHS and the school ed psyc. Explained that we have been down that route many times and are getting worn out with it, to be honest. Anyway, the secondary school is going to email SENCO at ds's present school to suggest they try this route again. I don't hold out any hope though because the primary school is large and there are always far needier children who are prioritised above my son. It has happened more than once.

When my son came out of school today, he said it was "terrible". When I asked why, he described how he was being bullied by some so-called friends at playtime. One of them was once a close friend, so this must be particularly hurtful. As far as lessons went, they were "boring".

We talked about home education this evening. I asked if he would miss the children at school. He said, on the contrary, he hated all the crowds of children at school. He said he felt like an outsider and there is hardly anyone he gets on with. There are only two boys he counts as friends and those friendships could easily continue outside school.

He also hates the noise of the classroom. He finds it distracting. He said he wishes he could work on his own, away from the classroom.

He said that he felt sick before going back to school and sick when he is there. He is just getting worn out with it.

He knows that home education doesn't mean just one long holiday and is prepared to work at home.

I suggested that time off school now would make going to secondary school an even harder transition for him. He said it wouldn't make any difference, but I'm still not sure about that. On the other hand, he might be a more relaxed boy and be able to cope better with the demands of secondary. He might even have learnt more in his time at home than he ever would at school.

I'm sure when I talk to the head tomorrow, she will do everything to dissuade me from taking this route. I will ask about flexi-schooling - maybe on a temporary basis - and see if she would consider that. And maybe if the friendship issues can be sorted out, that will make all the difference.

If you were to take him out of school I would encourage him to join a club, like scouts, or otherwise he may be further isolated.

Yes, I agree. That is a concern for me, LB29

Had a meeting with the headteacher today. She was excellent. She feels the main issue is my son's lack of social confidence. She is going to deal with the boys who were being mean to him at playtime. Two teachers were already planning to set up discussion groups for my son's class to discuss playtime issues, so that might help. And my son's teacher is going to do a 'screening' to assess which areas of school life my son finds stressful and then come up with plans to address these.

The head strongly advised me to take DS back to the GP and get him referred back to CAMHS for help with his anxiety/OCD. My heart sinks at the thought, but I do agree that I need to have a dr's opinion.

I did mention home schooling and flexi-schooling, but I agree with the headteacher that there are a lot of things we can try at school first.

My son is disappointed that I am not taking him straight out of school because he thinks this is the only solution. He insists that nobody likes him at school. Nobody. He gets quite angry with me when I try to suggest that can't be true. He must feel so bad about himself to believe that, poor boy.

One summer, two years' ago, my son's then best friend found himself a new best friend. My son came back to school in the new year and found himself alone. He and this other boy had been inseparable, and he was very, very hurt. I'm not sure that he ever really got over this. He tried to make new friends and has gone from friend to friend ever since, but his confidence was shaken. Now another so-called friend has turned against him. No wonder he feels that nobody is trustworthy and nobody likes him .

I wonder if, while we are waiting for a CAMHS appointment, we should take him to see a hypnotherapist to help him with confidence and relaxation. A friend has recommended one.

The head agreed that I should keep him at home tomorrow. This will give her a chance to discuss everything with his teacher and deal with the boys who were mean. Am hoping to get him to go into school on Monday, maybe meeting up with the one boy he counts as a friend in his class first, so they can go in together. In the afternoon, I'm meeting with the teacher and she can do the anxiety screening.

My son is at a good, caring school. Sadly, he doesn't experience it like that at all. He just thinks the staff have 'fooled' me again. I told him I would still consider home education if we couldn't sort out school for him, but said we must try this first, particularly as he has the transition to secondary coming up in six months' time and that might well be even harder to face if he has been out of the school system.

ToffeeChristmascake, can I suggest that you post on the Home Ed board? Some of your fears will be allayed by the experienced EHEers on there.

In particular, I don't think you'll find that it will be harder for him to go to secondary if he is out of school until July. He will have had eight months where he gets stronger because he is in control of his life and can choose the people with whom he associates. He will also know that you are on his side and will support him.

You may, of course, both decide that you don't want to deal with the secondary school thing so soon. Depending on what he wants to do in the future, you may decide to go into school at Y9 to take exams, wait until he can get into college, or deal with the issue of getting qualifications at home.

BTW, on the "school phobia" thing, it is not necessarily an irrational fear. Your OP describes a boy who has been having problems throughout his school career. He feels anxious, knows that he is failing (in their terms) and expects to be bullied. He does not want to continue in that environment and has been asking about coming out over a substantial period of time. That seems entirely rational to me.