Croydon High for Girls in Croydon

[pparker]

Hi. Just needed some information on Croydon High School. My brother is looking at it for his 7 year daughter. But we are not really sure if its a very good school.How does it compare with say Caterham or Jags? Any tips would be much appreciated.
Many thanks

Well, there's quite a distance geographically between Caterham and JAGS so not many parents would be trying to choose between those two! Do not underestimate the impact of a lengthy commute on a child that young, especially with homework, music practice and afterschool clubs and activities. Old Palace is the other local girls schools which similarly goes from 4-18.

All 3 schools that you have mentioned have their own senior schools and the majority of children go through from the junior section to the senior section. In particular the schools will not prepare specifically for 11+ so if you were interested in the girls grammars (Newstead Woods or Wallington/Nonsuch) then you would have to consider the additional prep needed for that. And it is obviously worth considering the different senior schools quite closely as in effect you are signing up for those.

Caterham is obviously co-ed, with boys in the majority (3-2 ratio). Lovely grounds, decent facilities. Has become far more academic over the past 5-10 years with a lot of emphasis on teaching children how to learn, with the result that the lessons are fairly interesting. Extra curricular activities highly promoted, strong PTA, joint with the senior school. They do assess the pupils at the end of Year 4 to see whether they'll be up to the standard required at the senior school. Assessment for junior school seems to be based on CAT type tests rather than traditional maths/english. That said I am surprised if they have spaces at 7 - they're often full from the end of reception.

Croydon High senior has suffered in the last couple of years due to having a number of headteachers. However the current temporary one has just been confirmed as permanent, and seems to be well-liked by staff, parents and the girls. The decision by Trinity to go co-ed in 6th form is having a significant impact on the 6th form at CHS though.

If you wanted to keep your options open for a few years Cumnor House for Girls in Purley is worth a look as it will prepare girls not just for CHS and Old Palace but also for Caterham, Newstead Woods and Wallington Girls'.

Thanks Ladymuck.That's really useful information.My niece is quite academic as well as very good at sports.So in this case which would you recommend out of the three? What about St.David's? I hear that's quite a good prep school as well.

To be honest they are all schools where an academic and/or sporty child would thrive.

St David's has a wonderful family feel. It is smaller than the others (single form entry). The sports fixture list may not be as extensive as OP or CHS but that is made up for by the fact that the sports department do then work well with the sportier children that they have and seek out opportunities for them whether at swimming or cross country or gymnastics. It is more of a prep school in that they do prepare for the grammar and indie schools at 11, so plenty of verbal reasoning and non verbal reasoning from Year 2 or 3 onwards.

For me the positive side of a smaller indie school is that every child will have a chance to be recognised and brought on for what they do. With the larger schools everything from getting into the sports team through to getting into the choir or the school play is very competitive, and some children will get left out. It definitely tends to suit the older and taller in the yeargroups, so take particular care if you have a niece who is summer born say - somewhere such as St David's or Oakwood may suit better.

If you register for any of these schools (well I don't know about JAPS but for OP, Caterham, St David, Cumnor) then your niece will spend a day at the school in part as an assessment but it will also give her a good idea of what the actual yeargroup is like. Personally I have seen a huge difference between yeargroups within a school, and would definitely wait for such an assessment before making a final decision.

Is your niece currently in Year 2 or Year 3?

Hi, She is currently in year 2 so will be joining in year 3.Gosh, getting the right school for your child is no easy task, is it?but thanks for all the information. It has really been very very helpful. Thanks a ton.

CHS has been fantastic for my 10 year old. She came from a small prep school like Cumnor and there just wasn't enough of a peer group. Since being at CHS her confidence has grown and I have been impressed with the academic work covered. Facilities are great too. My daughter had a taster day at CHS which was helpful in making the decision to transfer her. As I wanted her to go through to the Senior School it means that she won't have the pressure that the prep schools put them under. ladymuck is wrong about the preparation for Grammar schools. The CHS head explained to us that she is expected to provide information on how many girls have got into the grammar schools and gets points from the GDST for girls who get in. She is doing Verbal Reasoning tests now. As it is a larger school there are many more teams and so she has had opportunities to compete in tennis, netball and rounders.

If you think that GDST are viewing the flow from girls from CHS junior department to Wally girls/Newstead is a good thing, then you're fairly naive I'm afraid. The school goes to enormous lengths to retain their brightest pupils, and not lose them to the grammars. If you are a parent of a year 4 or 5 girls and think that your daughter is being fully prepared by the school for these exams, then good luck!

Umm, yes, I'm with Ladymuck on this one, I'm afraid. Just last year I was chatting to a CHS parent who was bemoaning the fact that she had believed that the school was preparing her daughter for grammar school exams when they were not.

Sorry but she has had weekly VR, Mathematics and English tests. I think that is enough. I know all about preparation for senior school- have been through it with my older children so am not a novice. The Junior school is pitted against outside girls coming in. I disagree that it is naive- of course the school would want to retain as many girls as possible but your view is unrealistic in the extreme as in this economic climate as many parents as possible are trying for the grammar schools. With so many competing schools it would be very stupid of CHS to ignore those that may wish to come to the Junior school to give them a good start to their education but want to go on to grammar. The GDST is a charity and not a money making company that was set up in 1870s to ensure that girls were educated and yes they do want to know that the education the girls received was good enough to get those who cannot afford the seniors to get into a grammar school as well. I am interested as to how you seem so knowledgeable about what the CHS girls are being taught/ not taught Ladymuck. You seem quite an authority on so many schools in the area.

Also forgot to say- something else I have found fantastic at CHS. As CHS is part of a larger network of schools my daughter has had some great opportunities such as the gifted and talented Science day where selected girls were sent to Blackheath to take part in challenges and learning led by some leading scientists.

I am not at all surprised the CHS is prepping for the 11+ Chauffermum. Businesses are having to adapt to survive these trying times - schools are no exception.
Interesting to note that Old Palace which traditionally does not prep for the 11+ is bowing to the pressure of the times (or possibly the influence of the new head after the last one left rather suddenly in the middle of last term) - They are now advertising that they do on their website and ran an 11+ plus workshop over the half-term.
www.oldpalace.croydon.sch.uk/11-plus-preparation

Both CroyHigh and OP junior departments have been hit by the launch of Cumnor House Girls school, so it is less about general pressure of the times and more about Linda Jenkins specific strategy of targeting the parents of boys at Cumnor and inducing them to move their daughters too (sometimes with financial inducements!).

Croydon High and OP want all of their junior department to stay on to the senior school. Neither is trying to be a feeder school for the other, or for the grammars. However whilst Linda can clearly say that Cumnor will prepare their daughter for any or all of the 11+ options, CroyHigh and OP have had to react. I note that Old Palace's "half term workshop" fell outside of the state school halfterm, so that gives a very big clue as to the target population! And of course OP's junior school now finishes at year 5 - Year 6 is part of the senior school, with the clear message of "now you're already here, why leave".

It will be interesting to see how the junior school strategy works out. Clearly parents were reluctant to move their daughters once they are already at OP or CroyHigh (though many have), but Cumnor Girls is already at 2 form entry now from reception now, and able to grow. There hasn't been a single sex girls prep locally for quite some time, so it is interesting to see how the competition pans out.

For a 3-18 school to try and compete against the preps will be a difficult area. A weekly test in maths, English and VR (hopefully NVR as well given both Newstead Woods and Caterham test in this) is fine, but nowhere close to the preparation that Cumnor (boys or girls) or even the co-ed preps such at St Davids or Oakwood would be doing: as every child is doing 11+ somewhere the drilling for these exams is considerable (typically 3 papers per week in each subject), as well as thorough preparation in interview skills, with lots of help in terms of what items to take into the interviews etc. Which is great if your child is doing 11+ for a number of schools, but if you already know that they are going through to the senior school, then you actually don't need your child to have practised nvr exam technique for 3 hours a week. You would far rather that they were going deeper with their language skills say, ensuring that their typing and ICT skills were at the top end of the spectrum, and enjoying the benefits of an all round education - not one focussed on exams that for them, at this stage, are broadly irrelevant.

Cumnor House Boys has had a similar problem in the past as some boys stay on for Year 8 whilst others want to leave at Year 6. The only fair way to manage this is to place the boys in streams so that those who are staying on for Year 8 don't spend the first term of year 6 doing endless irrelevant papers - instead they 11+ stream do the exam prep, the 13+ start the common entrance syllabus with geography field trips and language trips etc. You will know that CroyHigh and OP are serious about preparing girls for grammar schools and other 11+ exams when they do something similar ie stream the girls into those preparing for grammars and those staying on. Look for the action not the spin. Be wary when the junior school girls are being taken into the senior school for special days, warier still when they're not getting the chance to meet the teachers at the grammar schools or the competing 11+ schools. Mrs Leonard has spent time at one of my dc's prep school, and spent time with the prep school parents (as has the head of Wallington Girls, etc). I suspect that she hasn't done the same with the girls at Old Palace junior, and similarly whilst the girls at CroyHigh will have met staff from other GDST schools, they won't have staff from Newstead or Old Palace or Wallington High coming in, unlike the local preps.

Chauffermum, not sure that I want to give away too much on a public forum, but I have/have had children in a number of local private schools, have taught at some of them, and have professional links with some. I am in Croydon High School on a weekly basis. I am relieved that you are determined for your daughter to stay through to the senior school at Croydon High and I am very pleased that you, and most importantly your dd, are so happy there.

If a child needs to be streamed and have SUCH intensive preparation in the last years, I think the grammar school is probably not the right course for them to take. If they are truly bright enough, the good education they have received so far as well as some exam practice so that they understand the techniques required, should be sufficient. If they require such extra work, unless they plan to be tutored constantly throughout their secondary education,they will not cope.
I would imagine most sensible parents would want a well rounded education.

Rather an odd comment that Mrs Leonard should even think of going to Old Palace. Obviously there is professional courtesy between the competing schools. There is really very little need to worry about whether the Heads have gone into schools as there are so many opportunities for prospective pupils to meet staff at open mornings, taster days and indeed the endless invitations to come and tour the schools on an individual basis. It is lovely that the Head of CHS Juniors and staff are welcomed into Wallington to see how their girls have got on in their first year.

Also as far as interview practice is concerned, the Heads are getting wise to it and most are holding group interviews with tasks, so practice is irrelevant. Certainly Trinity did that and CHS are. Why would one be wary about the Junior girls being taken into the senior school for days? It is surely common sense to give existing girls a feel for the senior school? Outside girls get a similar opportunity. Your comments seem to assume that parents haven't got the sense to visit all the schools for themselves with their daughters and make their own minds up.

Sorry- also forgot to say CHS has not had to react to Linda Jenkins' talk of exam preparation. They are carrying on as normal. Linda Jenkins has no track record with girls' schools yet. If OP and CHS are reacting to anything, it is the economic climate.

So how many of those CroyHigh girls sitting the Wallington Girls exam passed?

From what I can gather on the playground all but 1. Of course that is just passed. It will be interesting to see who are offered places. You seem to work at CHS. Is there a reason you are so anti it? Would be interesting to know

I'm not anti the school at all, far from it - look back through the posts and check - in the first post I mention that DL is well-liked, in the second the first line is that they (JAGS, Caterham and CroyHigh) are all schools where a sporty and/or academic child will thrive. We simply have a disagreement as to whether the junior department is deliberately, and with GDST encouragement, trying to get the girls into grammar schools or other 11+ schools rather than the senior school. CroyHigh and GDST would like to keep every bright girl that they can. Equally in my first post on this thread (almost a year ago!) I make the same point about JAGS and Caterham.

I have yet to meet a CroyHigh parent who wants a grammar school place and has not been arranging for extra tuition for their daughter, and after all this is a forum for mums, so I would want to be honest about that. But I know few in the current year 6 at CroyHigh, so perhaps this is the first class to break the trend. Those I do know have had extensive tutoring though, as in one case has her sibling who has passed Wilsons.

That is reassuring that you have nothing negative about CHS. I think your point about tutoring is true of most schools. Certainly at my son's prep school they were all having their son's tutored- although mine wasn't! Certainly some parents have said to me that they are paying for Juniors as they can't afford the seniors and want the grammars. I think my point stands that the school isn't and can't ignore those parents. There is also a fine line between preparation and cramming. You'll be pleased to see that Sunday Times places CHS as 19 out of top 100 prep schools. Very encouraging I'm sure you'll agree

Indeed, though of course the majority of prep schools do not sit SATs (why would they?) and therefore are not included at all. But the GDST are not stupid, and hence all of their schools are included. I suspect that you will hear more about the junior school position in the table than the senior school one;).

You are right Gdst aren't stupid as they have a lot to be proud of and it is helpful to us mums to have some measure. You are also right that the prep schools do lack a certain transparency by not giving or publishing any comparable results. I know the lack of transparency about fees at Cumnor girls was rather irritating to some parents when they discovered the big discrepancies due to confidentiality agreements and the financial inducements you described earlier. I think to find CHS seniors as number 115 is absolutely fine and the fact that all their girls got the university of their choice within a couple of hours is fantastic. You persist in wanting to find fault with the school but I am very happy with my choice. Parents will all have different opinions on what they want and what suits their child. I felt it important to state the case for CHS after reading your comments as I have found it to be brilliant for my dd. I think we are looking for different things and so think we shall have to agree to differ.

Last year over 60% of the girls from Year 6 at Old Palace actually gained entry and accepted places at local grammar schools. Children have been leaving OP for grammars long before Cumnor House for girls surfaced. Whether they had private tuition to achieve this outside school, none (apart from the parents involved) is really in the position to say.

That OP has started preparing children from the 11+, solely as a direct result of the newly formed Cumnor House for Girls in Purley giving them a run for their money is debatable - It's not difficult to present an argument for or against that hypothesis depending on which side of the fence your are sitting. OP's reasons for introducing the 11+ prep are neither here nor there - the fact is they (as well as a few other independent schools that might not have done so in the past) are doing so now.

Independent prep schools will prepare you for the 11+ and 13+ exams, however quite a few of these children still receive extra private tuition on top of that . My local Kumon centre attracts quite a number of children from independent schools - Old Palace, St David's Prep, Oakwood and Cumnor house (boys and girls) as well as the local state schools in the area.
I got chatting with some parents who have children at Cumnor House and they informed me that they also have private 11+ tuition lined up and that though it was discouraged by the school(s), it is quite the norm to do so. That CHfG boasts a 100% 11+ pass-rate in is very first year is impressive on paper ? If this was solely as a result of the schools preparation strategy and or extra external prep - we could not possibly know.

It is not a cut-and-dried case that sending a dc to a prep over an independent school with a senior school or vice versa gets your dc into your selective school of choice. There are far too many other factors at play.

In my view, educating the whole child and instilling in them the confidence in themselves to reach their full potential is paramount and there are various routes to achieving this (be it a good - independent prep, independent non-prep ,state schools and extra tuition, extra-curricular etc) ? The bottom line is to know you child and choose what best suits.

p/s
For what it's worth, I do not have any dcs in any of the schools mentioned above.

I have heard that all the girls at Seaton House passed Wallington this year - just to put a spanner in the works! That's in Carshalton though, nowhere near Croydon High

I'm a GDST parent but I'm not going to say which one. I'm with Ladymuck.

Wow. I'm blown over with the intensity of your discussions. I went to CHS in the 1980s aged 9 and loved it. But not everybody did. I took two exams - one for Old Palace, one for CHS - passed both and my Dad asked me where I'd like to go. I chose CHS because it had a swimming pool. Simple as that. Some people love school, some people like it, others hate every minute of it. I think luck has a large part to do with it. Apologies if I seem a bit flippant, but you all seem to be analysing the whole system to bits. Why not just ask your child which is his / her favourite school? He / She will undoubtedly have a good natural instinct about where they feel they belong, without being blighted by the politics of it all.

Ponders if she knows sarah2312 I joined J1 in 1989 I also loved CHS - I went at 7 and left at 18. I aslo sat for Old Palace and chose CHS for the swimming pool (dad wanted me to go to CHS, mum to OP). I think a child will do best in an environment that they are happy - ask your daughter which she thinks will be best.