Excessive punishment - should I say anything?

[Solo2]

DS1 aged 9 has a class teacher who doesn't teach him any subjects and rarely sees him. He has had a few 'run-ins' with this teacher on the rare occasions he's had him for anything. Today, DS1 made a mild joke when the class were doing a fun quiz instead of Games (it was too cold to let them out). Teacher sent him out of the class to stand in the corridor for 1 hr 40mins. DS1 was distraught by the time he came out tonight and I'm afraid I also feel that the teacher was well OTT with the punishment. DS1 had said nothing rude and was simply getting a laugh, without meaning any harm.

This same teacher has also told DS1 to come for detention at lunchtime, when DS1 did something else v mild (talking to himself quietly whilst revising) but then never turned up for the punishment and left DS1 waiting all break in the classroom alone and confused.

This teacher also kept in the entire class, making DS1 miss an important music ensemble he plays in, just because one or two others (NOT DS1) had been a bit rowdy one morning.

This teacher is newly qualified and seems to have a diffculty with managing discipline and clearly overreacts with punishments, porbably because he feels he lacks authority. This is the same teacher I mentioned on another thread about a punishment for not changing within 5 mins after Games, involving missing both morning and lunch breaks and then dressing and undressing back and forth in and out of clothes on your own in front of the teacher.

I have to say I am completely FURIOUS tonight and want to go ina nd give him a piece of my mind but DS1 is adamant that he doesn't want me to say antyhing at all otherwise it'll get worse. From a detached perspective, I'm also wondering if it's wise to keep silent as there's little that can be done to change a teacher's idea of fairness, I presume.

It would be questioning his authority and certainly no other staff would do anything other than be on the side of their colleague.

Would you say anything or just let things be? Am I over-reacting because this is my own son and I feel v protective towards him? Is this kind of unfairness just what children have to accept as part of school life and hopefully they'll then learn not to provoke any similar situation in future?

Speak to the teacher and if no joy, go to the head.

I would go in not all guns blazing but calmly and discuss with teacher, you don't have to tell DS that you're doing this if it would upset him.. certainly 1 hr forty mins seems hugely unreasonable

Is this private or state school? dunno about private but in a state school, as a rule, a kid should not be left in a corridor for more than a few moments. It should be a neutral conversation
(ie to ask for an explanation, clarification or give a private warning) and the kid should be returned to class. If a child does need to be removed, they should be supervised by another adult.
On the face of it, this sounds like bad practise and I would be concerned.

I think perhaps he forgot he sent him out! I had a boy sit on my carpet a whole lunch time once totally forgot I had asked him to see me. I felt terrible and did apologise to the boy and speak to his parents about it too!

It's a private school and although most of my fury is about the unreasonableness of the punishment, some of it is the fact that I'm paying huge school fees for my son to stand for 1hr and 20 mins in a corridor, unoccupied and unsupervised!

Montymum, this same teacher forgot about another punishment in the past and left DS1 to stand in a classroom unoccupied and unsupervised all one lunch break, waiting for a lunchtime detention with this teacher. On that occasion, all DS1 had done to merit this was whisper his science revision under his breath during morning 'form time'.

As I never ever see this teacher, my choice is either to email him or try to arrange a formal meeting - which may be nigh on impossible before the end of term, as I'm busy working f/t.

Unfamiliar with private school rules, but you could ask to see their discipline policy.
In state, teachers should be following a clear sequence of escalation and have sane reasons for what they do.

And you are only getting your ds's viewpoint on this.

I dont understand why you have to ask whether you should complain or not. OR course it's excessive however may well be in line with your school's behaviour policy. SHudder.

Leaving a child in a corridor is failing in the duty of care for that child and failing in the school's safeguarding duties. Did you speak to the teacher after the PE punishment?

Goblinchild is right and so is deaddei. I think it is essential you have a meeting with the school to find out what has actually happened and what should be happening.

If it is as it sounds then, you are right, I wouldn't pay good money for this sort of treatment either...

You need to separate the reasons for the punishments and the punishments themselves.

Standing in a corridor for 1 hour 40 minutes would not be an appropriate punishment even for a child who had attacked another one; in other words, the punishment is not simply unjust, it is an unacceptable punishment for any behaviour. Focus on this in your communication with the school.

Tackle your son being singled out/punished unfairly as a separate issue. Suggest a home/school communication book and ask the teacher how he rewards your son's good behaviour, or any other strategies the school has in place to support him (although being a private school, they are not obliged to provide any).

You are a paying customer, and you are not paying for your son to stand in corridors. If he needs to be removed from the classroom, he should be somewhere else, supervised and learning.

I would speak to the teacher as a formality, but let him know that you will be speaking to the head as you are concerned about the school's policy on behaviour.

Very unreasonable of the teacher. What lesson can your boy learn by standing in a corridor for over an hour? It sounds as though the teacher is a control freak. Ask for a meeting with the head asap before this teacher does even more damage.

OK. I've now emailed the teacher asking for clarification with the implication that I think/ expect that DS1 might not be giving the full facts - and shall see what he says.

On the one hand, I'm sure the teacher will feel angry and threatened but on the other hand, I feel too angry myself to let it go and I suspect that DS1 is telling the full truth.

At least 3 other sets of parents have recently been to speak to this teacher regarding his teaching of Maths (he doesn't teach my DCs maths) because he's causing a lot of disillusion within this top maths set of v bright sparks. So I know I'm not the only parent to take issue with him.

good for you...let us know what happens!!

BUT you also have to bear in mind you might also get the : This is what you signed on for (ie are paying 'huge school fees' for). Yes, speak to/email the teacher but be sure of your ground- the discipline policy might possibly, like a very close friend of mine's whose DSs are at an expensive prep, more or less give free reign to individual teachers re 'bad behaviour' and the punishment of as they 'cannot allow any toleration of it' as they figure the other parents are also paying 'huge school fees' to keep their own DCs away from such 'obvious troublemakers'. Good luck and let us know how you go.

I know what you mean, ampere. It's just that in this case, all DS1 did was to make one small joke to his friends. They were doing a 'sports quiz' for FUN, after Games had been cancelled and the first question was something to do with football teams and DS1 smiled and answered "Britney Spears!" to a question about a certian player or manager - so whilst it was a bit silly, it wasn't ott or rude and he thought he was just fitting in with the informal afternoon atmosphere of a fun quiz. It was only this that he did (I've now checked with some of his peers) and was sent out immediately for 1 hr 20 mins, without any first warning - eg "Stop giving silly answers - or I'll sned you out". Just immediate and inappropriate retribution.

As the teacher hasn't replied to my email, I feel even more angry today. Unfortunately, I am working without a gap from 8.30am on Monday, so won't easily find time to get into the school or even chase the email - but I won't let this go as it's just yet another example of inappropriate discipline by a 22 yr old newly qualified young boy/ teacher.

If you don't get a reply, could you forward on your original email with a note about it not being answered and what your son has told you, to the Head?

You could even calmly state some of the issues such as "safeguarding" for a child to be left alone for such a long amount of time. (I am sure you are not the first parent to complain.)

Solo, I remember your other thread. What happened about the changing punishments - did you raise that one with the school?

It sounds like you have some justified misgivings about this teacher's methods and you need to get it sorted.

the last sentence in your OP worries me - do you actually believe this is all part of learning? I don't. It's appalling.

You need to address your own sense of authority as a parent in these situations, because no teacher has the right to do things to your child which make you feel so upset.

Trust us - you have good reason to feel angry. Now please do something about it - if no reply to emails, go in and insist on seeing the head. Tell him you went to the teacher first but had no response.

Time to act.

BarbaraWindsor, when I discussed the dressing/undressing punishment with other parents, to 'sound out' my own peer feeling, many mums actually LIKED the punishment as they felt it'd help their sons to change more quickly. So I felt as is I was being OTT and might create trouble for our family, if I complained.

I decided to broach it informally when I next saw the teacher - but I really rarely see this teacher. I dop off my DCs at 8am (school opens then and starts properly from 8.30am) and then dash to work in the car. At the end of the day, children come out into playground and get picked up either by car, ina car queue or - as I do - by parents who park elsewhere and walk up drive to playground.

There is no precedent for 'popping into classroom' to look around, grab a teacher for a quick chat etc etc. You CAN do this but it's unusual. At that time of day, this teacher is usally rushing around supervising children getting changed in the boys changing room (where mums are unwanted!) and there are lots of children and parents and teachers rushing around. there never seems to be a time to talk to the teacher. He's always busy throughout the whole school day, teaching or supervising in playground - as one of the junior teachers, he does a lot of this.

To see the headmaster, you usually need to book up several weeks ahead and he'll have no time now till end of term and of coruse this would then hype up the whole situation.

I think the next possible step for me is to wait and see if the teacher emails me on Monday and then if he does, see if we can at all find any mutually convenient time to have a chat. If he doesn't, I might see if I can meet with the Deputy Head. He is someone I don't know at all and have never spoken to but someone to whom a mum friend complained when the young teacher gave too much maths homework to the top set (the boy whose mum complained has recently got through to the top UK maths competition, is a child genius at maths and yet still struggled to complete the pages and pages of maths across half term, whilst on a family holiday).

Surely there is someone that you would have regular contact with? Form tutor, housemaster, head of year, Head of section? Who is responsible for the pastoral care of your son - this should be one named person, not a matter of whoever you can get hold of?

As a separate matter, If you cannot meet the headmaster unless you have booked several weeks ahead, then frankly I would find another school.

You could send a follow up email asking when your query will be answered, and offering to come in for a discussion if that would be more convenient.

I think you should also make it plain that your son should be released when he has another activity (the ensemble), and any detention rescheduled for another time.

You could send a follow up email asking when your query will be answered, and offering to come in for a discussion if that would be more convenient.

I think you should also make it plain that your son should be released when he has another activity (the ensemble), and any detention rescheduled for another time.

Ladymuck, the very teacher involved IS the first port of call teacher as he is the form master, although he normally teaches DS1 no subjects at all. To go above his head immediately flags up that you're formalising the issue.

There is a Head of Pastoral Care too - who was DS1s class teacher last yr but who no longer teaches - just does pastoral care. But she wouldn't be the person to see about this really, as she's more for issues relating to social difficulties and learning difficulties. I've already seen her this term about both re. DS1 (another thread of mine on Gifted & Talented but Failing at school).

What I find incredibly hard especially this year is to have, for the first time, a form teacher who doesn't teach DS1 any lessons and barely knows him at all. In previous years, the form teacher would teach the children at least one subject and in their pre-prep school, it was completely different again. parents would go in morning and afternoon, look round the classrooms, look in the desks, whilst chatting to the class teacher who also taught most subjects and anything at all could be brought up daily, in an easy way, before it got out of hand. i really miss that but I guess it's the same as you go up in any school.

I expect that the teacher in question either doesn't check his work emails after 5pm on Fridays or that part of his inexperience is failing to realise that a parent needs a response quickly. He is genuinely like a school boy himself - hence the 'forgetting' he's put a child in detention or in the corridor - or failing to sign his teacher part of the daily pupil planner books that parents have to saign weekly - or not responding to emails etc etc. If you address him at all, he blushes. He walks to school with his iPod in his ears. He's like an overgrown puppy dog but who's clearly in need to further training in his teaching capacity!

I work full time but have popped in before work about 3 times this year to have a quick word with dd's teacher. No problem. If I ever wanted to see the Head I'd just call the office and pop in that day at an agreed time or catch him on the spot. It's been made clear to us as parents the head is there to talk to.

'He is genuinely like a school boy himself - hence the 'forgetting' he's put a child in detention or in the corridor - or failing to sign his teacher part of the daily pupil planner books that parents have to saign weekly - or not responding to emails etc etc. If you address him at all, he blushes. He walks to school with his iPod in his ears. He's like an overgrown puppy dog but who's clearly in need to further training in his teaching capacity!'

This is very harsh. Just because he is young doesn't make him a bad teacher. Many teachers forget that they have sent children out of the room or organised detentions because there are always a million and one things to remember each day.