Choosing Schools - WWYD?

[LondonSuperTrooper]

Hello all,

I need some help please! I would love some help in reaching my decision in which order to rank my DS choices for reception. I have visited all schools in question; I have looked at OFSTED report and league tables...... And I am no closer in choosing a school for my DS! As a single parent I feel the weight of responsibility of choosing the school and have not got anyone to talk this through with. I have just recently moved into the area and do not know any local mums either

School 1 - outstanding OFSTED but is an infant only school with no junior school attached to it, one class of 30 per year and is located 0.8 miles from my house. It's a fabulous school and I really like it but I am not too happy with the junior school that DS will have to transfer to - currently have 99 kids per year!! Local junior 0.5miles away and is ranked 53 in the league table for the county (out of 198 schools).

School 2 - good OFSTED, 4-11 years old, lovely small school, one class of 30 per year and is located 1.2 miles from my house. It's ranked 120 in the league table for the county. The only negative thing that I have heard about it is that 10% of the kids are from the traveller?s camp across the road (long term settlers).

School 3 - Good OFSTED, ranked 11th in league tables for the county (out of 198), 2 classes of 30 per year and is located 5 miles from my house.

DS is quite shy and takes him a while to settle into his surroundings. I am not sure whether I should choose a school based on what he needs now, which is School 1 or what is best in the long term, which is School 3. I want to choose School 3 as I am happy with DS attending there; he will be settled in there from 4-11 years old and has a fantastic reputation. The only down side for me is that it's 5 miles away. I am planning on picking up DS from school 1-2 days a week and having his friends over etc. I am not put off of the distance or the drive.

I should mention that DS hasn't settled or set root anywhere - IYSWIM. He was taken out of nursery after 7 months due to 2 kids picking on him on daily basis. He is currently attending a pre-school in County A but will have to move to County B due to my recent job change. Hence the reason that I would like him to feel settled.

Which schools would you choose? The scary thing is that I am 95% certain that I will get my first choice - based on the last 4 years of admission figures. Many people at work have made much of friendship forged at 4-7 years old etc and that kids suffer when they move over to a different junior schools without their group of friends etc. Also, some have mentioned that DS will not have any local friends. But our life is so busy trying to cram in horse riding and swimming lessons, spending some time alone together and meeting up with my family that I fail to appreciate the impact of him not having any local friends.

I'm rambling now aren?t I? Can you see why I'm confused?! Essentially I am asking - What would you do?

Many thanks if you have read the post & got this far x

If your heart says School 1 then that's likely the best choice for you. Your feeling about the Headteacher is really important, at primary they really set the tone for the school, and I think having a similar philosophy at school and home is really key to a successful partnership between you and the school. I think that is especially important if you are a working mum and won't be able to have that much regular contact with the school.

Bear in mind that if you want to apply for a place for your ds at one of the other primaries come junior age there is nothing to stop you from doing so, and if the pastoral care has helped him to blossom then he might well be fine with moving.

I'd also agree that having a school, and therefore likely your friends within walking distance is a big deal. Not so much when he is small perhaps, but certianly later, because he will want to spend time with his friends. Plus it is very handy making friends with a few parents from the point of view of logistics for all the school events, of which there may well be many, and they are likley to pay absolutely no account of the fact that some children may not have a parent at home.

Finally I think that the most important determinant of whether a child is happy at school (and this to me matters more than anything else at primary, because if they aren't happy they won't learn very much other than how to be miserable) is whether they click with the teachers and whether they find friends amongst their peers. Neither of which you can predict in advance. So you have to let go to some extent and I think trusting your heart is the only way to comfortably do that.

Being in the community would make me most happy and I can rationalise that. Hence I will be happy with that... and if my child is bullied after all, then I won't blame myself for having the wrong intentions, I'll just deal constructively with it when it happens, because I won't be mentally flogging myself. Sometimes you have to get out of your community to avoid people, but you don't want to start out with that assumption! That is why I agree with those who say go for school 1, because you love it so much. But you have to feel as happy as we do with this decision!!!!!!!

Wow, what a lot of responses! Thanks so much!

Sorry for my delay in replying to some of the questions. I?ve just moved house and my BT line is still not set up and I have not access to the net in the evenings.

I should have mentioned in my original post that there are 2 two other schools:

School 4 ? with an infant and junior (the intake of 99 at Junior and 75 at infant) on the same site but I would still have to apply for a school place for the junior when DS is 7years old.

School 5 ? which will take kids 4-11 but will have an intake of 30 when DS is 7 years old.

So in answer to the questions regarding School 1 ? it is a standalone infant school with the nearest primary school being School 4 or School 5. I have discounted School 5 as I wasn?t impressed with what I saw during my school visit. School 4 has a large catchment area (6 miles!)

The children from School 1 split into going to School 4 & School 5, with around 20-30% going into private education. So potentially DS will know 10-12 children if he was to go to Juniors School 4. But 10-12 out of 99 children is not a lot is it?

I?ll be back here later on this morning & I promise to respond to all of the questions then.

Morning Rabbit & Nooka

Mornin'!

Maybe you should start a thread entitled "What to Do When There are Too Many Good State Schools"! That would up the positive feeling on mumsnet towards state schools!

10-12 children out of 99 is enough, I think - especially if other children from the old school still live in the local community. Friendships take a while to establish, but I don't still have hundreds of friends from when I was 5 or 6, so I must have made other friends along the way. I do have a couple from the very early years, but one of those left the school I was at when she was 6 - I stayed in touch and remained friends with her.

Rabbit,
getting DS into grammar school would be great but I am not basing my choice of school at this stage purely for that intention. I am basing my decision on pastoral care, support and good solid academic records. I have looked at the last 2 OFSTED reports for all schools and I am comfortable with School 1 and School 3. School 2 has been ranked as ?good? overall all but in the breakdown is mostly satisfactory ? even when it comes to pastoral care & guidance in the most recent OFSTED.

Your comments regarding School 3 being an exam factory etc ? well how can I find out at this stage? All I know is from what I have seen on my visit, OFSTED and league tables. I know that it is very well regarded in the area as well. How can a school have so many clever kids when it?s open to all?

Not sure how to breakdown SAT results. I do know that School 4 has SEN centre and these children do have lessons with everyone else. Anyhow, below are the SAT results of the local school available to me and I echo Neurotic?s post about how these results can be broken down further!

Rank School Eng. Maths Sci. Pts. Value added
11 1 95 94 95 30.6 100.7
53 4 86 87 93 29.4 100.2
70 5 86 83 95 29.2 100.1
120 2 87 90 97 28.2 99

School 1 being infant only is not in the league table.

With regards to your experience with your DCs going to a local schools etc, it sounds idyllic. Prior to my divorce I was planning to be a stay at home mum, getting involved with DS schooling, dropping him off and picking him up and participating in the PTA and so on. Unfortunately this is now but a pipe dream and I have to accept that I am going to miss an awful lot by continuing to work full time especially with my busy and demanding job. This is far from ideal and it is NOT what I want but I can?t see any other way out!

Bramshott,
You probably think that I am potty for considering School 3! I guess that I want DS to go to the ?best? school that I can get him into, which at the moment I feel that it?s School 3 ? mainly because I want him to have a form school and to be there from 4-11. If School 3 is say, 1 mile away from my where I live then we would not be having this discussing at all.
I?m probably repeating myself but with School 3 the only negative that I can see is that it is 5 miles away from me and the worry of DS not having local friends and hence this thread  Also, why don?t you like league tables?

Red,
Head teacher at School 1 said that parents choose her school as they want to make sure that they can get their DCs at the right school for when they are 7years old. I guess she is right in that what is right for DS now is different to what he may need at 7 years old. What I do know that it will be impossible to get him into School 3 at 7.
And yes, you are right it is the Junior School (School 4) that is putting me off from choosing School 1 right now.

MadameCastafiore
Sorry that you missed out on the social side of things when you were at school. I am planning to have DS friends over for play dates twice a week. I am also willing to drive his friends back to their house so that avoids the distance issues that other parents may have about their DCs coming over to my place. I personally can?t do more than that as I can?t change my hours at work too radically as I need the money!

Neurotic
I am planning to go and visit the junior school in 3 weeks time. I have to stagger the school visits as it?s awkward trying to get time off from work.
The DCs from the primaries go on to the local 2 secondary?s which I am comfortable with at this stage. If he was to go onto grammar school then, no most likely he will not have any friends going with him & he?ll have to commute by train to get there.
Maybe we can help each other in reaching a decision for choosing schools for our DCs?

Clary,
Most of the kids on my street seem to go to independent schools. I do not know them but I?ve seen their uniforms! I do not know where the others go to ? I leave home at 7.30 and we?re not back till 6pm so I do not see the school runs etc.

Cat,
It?s great that you are positive at 3 form entry. I always thought that as my DS is so shy and perhaps not very confident that he would get ?lost? in a large school. I guess that too large a school scares me more than it would my DS!

Pooka,
Thanks for sharing your views. Can?t believe the 6 form entry though!!!!!

Back to Rabbit again,
What?s a sense of community? Does it really exist? I understand that there may be a school community. I would love to have a sense of community but fail to see how that can be achieved when living in a large town. Is that really possible?

Seeker,
I understand that living 5 miles away is a pain and perhaps I have no appreciation of forgetting lunch boxes etc and probably won?t until I?m in that position. I confess that I am worried about the distance, but in the general scheme of things isn?t that worth it? Isn?t that a small price to pay when you are confident in that they getting a good education?

Nooka,
That?s exactly it! As a working mum I have to like/get on with the staff as I need that vital communication link. But my dilemma is that I have liked all of the head teachers that I?ve met bar one (School 5).

Gosh, not sure what happened to the SAT table! I'll try again.....

Rank-School-Eng.-Maths--Sci.-Pts.-Value added
11195949530.6100.7
53486879329.4100.2
70586839529.2100.1
120287909728.2*99

Rabbit, I really do not think that I have the energy to start another thread

LST - I don't quite understand all those numbers (can you tell I've never looked at SATs results?!) but they all look pretty good to me. The value added score takes into account the schools intake when they arrive I think.

I don't like league tables for primary schools becuase (a) I think they're an incredibly simplistic way of looking at a school, when at this age it should be about so much more than academic attainment; (b) I think there's a very real risk that the schools with better results will have fallen into the trap of 'teaching to the test' which is not much fun for the kids, and doesn't lead to a very enriching education.

LondonSuperTrooper - I sense that all your thinking is still drawing you towards School 3. As I said before, if it's really that good, then it really is that good. Opt for that school and don't look back - you've done enough thinking, now. Accept the difficulties as part of the package. The only reason I wouldn't choose it is that my circumstances are different to yours, as you have quite accurately identified.

You are being unbelievably thoughtful about the whole thing. Being conscientious like that is very difficult! I know, because I'm that way inclined myself.

Anyone (other than me, now) ever described you as a middle class perfectionist?! I think that's what I am.

Hi,

Just noticed a typo & wanted to clarify that in the table above School 1 should read School 3!

Bram,
Judging by the visit, kids were well bahaved and the drama & IT classes were having a great time... so hopefully it shouldn't be a like a test factory. But then again, who knows? One can never know what the actual school is like till your DC starts attending on a daily basis.

Rabbit,
never been described as middle class but I am a perfectionist
Also, I am entrusting my DS to the school for 7 years or so, so that is why I may be going a bit OTT as this deserves some serious thought for my DS.

("different from" - see what I mean? I can't relax about anything!). Sometimes, however irritating, and however important the thing we are thinking about, we need to be told to "take a chill pill." Go for school 3. Really. No-one could possibly criticise you for it after all that thought and effort!

Oops. There I go again. Nobody SHOULD criticiZe you for it.

Choices for LondonSuperTrooper:

1. School 3
2. School 1
3. School 2

There! Done and dusted. Shall I fill out the form for you?

I think that it's such a hard choice to make, especially if you aren't lucky enough to have what in your own individual heart, is the perfect school for your DC on your doorstep. The 'neurotic' name given to me by my DH who has literally lost patience with my obsessive search for a school that 'just feels right' as you walk through the door, and see all of the happy, blossoming faces, building their fondest memories, whilst absorbing and developing all the holistic attributes necessary for them to get 'whatever they want' out of life, without any barriers.

It does sound as though schools 2 and 5 are out of the picture. Once you've visited the junior school - 4, it should be a bit easier to decide. Does anyone go from school 1 go to school 3 at age 7? Do you know any other local parents who are thinking of school 3, either for now or at age 7. Is there any potential for sharing a school run with 'local friends'?

Rabbit, shall I send you the link for the online applications?

Neurotic, you are in the same position for me in that people percieve that we are overthinking this decision. However, I feel that this is such an important decision and will potenially shape them as individuals for the future.
In answer to your quesrions, School is defintely out of the picture! School 2, i'm still undecided. I'm going for 2nd school visit tomorrow
As far as I am aware no-one from School 1 will go on to School 3. School 3 does not have an intake at Yr3 and will be impossible to get DS in. Also, i'm not sure that it is fair for DS to go into Yr3 when they have all been together since Reception and have formed their friendship groups.

Sorry, the above should read that School 4 is definitely out of the picture!!

Sorry, I think Im getting muddled with schools 4 & 5. Other than the distance, school 3 seems the least complicated!

Agreed!!!

Neurotic, Where about in the country are you?

(Bet you end up putting the schools in the order I said...).

Good luck with your decision - I really hope you end up reasonably happy with your ds's school, whichever one you choose.

ps would you let us all know what you do eventually decide? It would be fascinating to know whether you eventually decide that you agree with OFSTED evaluations and how much you eventually relied on league tables when coming to your decision. (Dreadfully nosey of me, I know!).

Im in Kent. I've read some threads by other MNers who have viewed the same schools as me and come away with the same dilemma.

rabbitstew - I don't think anyone bases school choice on Ofsted report and league table alone.