Would it be madness to allow Yr5 dd to change schools purely because of friendship problems?

[emkana]

Basically the girl who has been her best friend since Yr 2 has dropped her, no other firm friendships are emerging for dd, she feels lost and out of place and was very upset yesterday, saying she doesn't understand why she isn't liked.

I don't understand it either, the only thing I can think of is that she is maybe a bit more serious and earnest than the others, and she has the reputation of being "the brightest girl in the class", which doesn't seem to help with popularity.

She has now said she would like to go to a different primary school, where some girls go whom she knows from Brownies. I'm not sure whether to go along with this idea, or whether to encourage her to stick it out?

Read something like Queen Bees and Wannabes first, perhaps? (Amazon) Lots of advice on girls and friendships as they get a bit older. The unwritten rules of friendship is another good one, worth looking at if you think there might be an issue with social skills or confidence. But maybe it's just a friendship that had run its course and surviving that experience is just something your dd has to do?

You could remind her that if she has been close friends with this girl all this time then she has not been getting to know other girls as well as she might, but that she might now and make new friends, but it will take time and not happen overnight. Or maybe it won't happen at all at this school and she won't have a new 'best' friend again till after it all changes at secondary transition, but if that happens it's OK, it's not her fault and it's not a sign she's unlikeable or doing something wrong. It is OK to be a cat that walks by itself for a while and it can happen to anyone. Going to a new school won't necessarily make it easier, even if there are people she knows there.

I would not move her, she has to learn to cope one way or the other.
If we were talking serious bullying then the answer might be yes but simply because she appears to have fallen out with her best friend, the answer must be no

Thank you for your advice, those books look very interesting.

I've said to dd that maybe she can go for a while without having a best friend, but she feels so lonely at the moment and I think the thought of carrying on like this for almost two years is terrifying her.

x-posts admission.

Interesting you should say that, why would you feel this strongly that it's not a good idea? For academic reasons?

Have you spoken to her teacher? Do yo know for certain she has no friends at all? If so...then don't think moving her is a bad idea...will she be going to the same secondary as the other kids in her current school?

On the other hand she COULD make new friends at her current school? Is the school no hep at all? Maybe you could see about her joining some new clubs..new chaallenges could give her more confidence?

I had this problem personally when I was at school around year 5-6 but it happened when I moved to middle school. I wanted to move to another school where my friends from dancing went, My parents put me on the schools waiting list not expecting anything to come from it. We got a call from the school the day before term started saying there is now a place for me but because of the timing they said i couldn't go. I know I was young but I knew my mind, things didn't get better for me until high school when I fell into a new group and finally "belonged"

How long as this being going on for?
how long is until until she progresses to the next school?
I think you need to consider these things but also have a serious talk with her, discuss your concerns and hers. I think if she has brought the idea to your attention she probably has thought about it a lot.

You could always apply for the school and see what happens, maybe if there is a waiting list by the time a place comes up she may have settled and she is under no obligation to accept the place. Even if she feels like this is just you taking her problems seriously it may make her feel better about the situation.

Really interesting advice thank you.

It's tricky for me because on the one hand I want her to have the staying power to face up to a difficult situation, but on the other hand looking at the girls in her class there is nobody there that I can see as a good "fit" for dd, so I can't even say to dd "why don't you invite x round"

Do you think the other school would allow a taster day?

If it was my dd and she felt lonely (providing it wasn't just a flash in the pan) I would definitely apply for the new school. I am currently moving home and all 3 of my chosen schools where full, it took a lot of ringing around to get her in and then she wont start until January. If the school she wants to go to is full you could find she wont get a place until September and if you wait it could be longer. (this may be different in your area)if she does settle into a new friendship group she will probably tell you she doesn't want to move anyway but at least the option is there.

I would of thought they wouldn't do that but they do allow visits. Phone the school, you never know they might do. Also you could ask them about their numbers in you DD year group to see if they could accept her.

Have you spoken to the teacher? I wouldn't be thinking of changing schools until at least that is done.

How close is she to the girls from Brownies?

I'm not saying your child has a problem with friends but what happens if you move her and the same happens again.
Close friendships are formed and then end all the time including really firm friendships.What happens at the new school if a friendship group your daughter's in naturally breaks up after a few months and your daughter feels lonely again.
I know it's awful but these things do happen no matter how much us parents hate seeing our children hurting.

What I'd be wondering is what her expectations are - how much she just hopes that she'll find more friends there, and how well she knows the girls at Brownies. What will it be like for her if she makes no new friends there? Is there a chance she'll end up feeling that she's failed? I'd be wary of sending a message that some kind popularity is vital and must be chased at any cost even if it means moving schools.

On the other hand, approaching it in a 'nothing to lose by changing' way with low expectations could work, but the sort of girl it could work best for is probably one who is already very confident and secure in herself. Starting a new school is hard - it's very hard to be the only new one in the class, possibly just as hard or harder than being the friend left behind when a friendship breaks up.

What are the dynamics of the new class going to be? Are there girls who don't go to Brownies who are key members of the school friendship groups that the girls she sees at Brownies are part of? I'd want to find quite a bit out about that - do you know any mums of girls at that school who could report back a bit on what it's like?

dd knows three girls in the class she would be going to, gets on well with all of them, she sees one weekly at Brownies, the other two infrequently at social events.

I have said to her not to expect amazing friendships blossoming, and she says she knows that.

Sit her down and have a serious talk, tell her you can't just send her back to the old school if it doesn't work out. I thought she was friends with a few girls in the same group of friends, if she knows the girls individually the 3 girls might not even be in the same friendship groups within the class. Also is there only 1 class in the year group, you may find there are 2 classes and all three girls are in the other class. As smockingtillerfiredeers says it might be a good idea to talk to their parents to get some inside information.

I was thinking the sameas samabs...is it possible to talk to the parents of the Brownie friends? Tell them what you are thining of doing and see what they tell you about the school in general ..get some opinons?

I always think, in these situations - if we, as adults, are in some sort of working environment we're not comfortable with, for whatever reason, we have the power to at least look into finding somewhere more amenable.

Children don't have that power and only we, as their parents, can do this for them.

I'm not saying we have to do it at every falling-out or 'incident,' but if a child is miserable in the place she spends most of her day, all day, 5 days a week, I think it's reasonable to start looking at other options.

It sounds like you've got your head screwed on managing her expectations, and I don't think there's an academic reason not to do it at this age.

(Btw, new girls regularly join our primary post-year 3, and they all seem to settle quickly.)

Good advice re talking to the other Brownie mums.

Would agree with what WhatsWrngWithYou says about kids settling well after year three...older girls are still amenable to new kids...usually vey keen to get to know them.

I think if you do decide to do it, then maybe invite some of the brownies over for a play one day? Before you DS begins? Maybe a little "I'm coming to your school celebration" low key with a film and a lot of junk food!

I have experienced sending one of my kids to a new school that he was really keen to go to because he had a very good "out of school" friend there. There was even a place in the same class (2 form entry) which we were really happy about. It was a disaster; the friend made it very clear that he didn't want DS crashing his school friendship group and went out of his way to exclude him at every opportunity. DS was really hurt and puzzled by this - he eventually found his own group of friends and was happy there but it was a bit of a shock to everyone's system.

I am not of course saying that that's what will happen for your DD, but some children like to compartmentalise their friendships and you don't know what the dynamics are like for this group of girls from brownies when they are at school. If you feel it is right to move your DD then of course you should do it, but I would try to work on her not pinning all her hopes on the brownie friendships being the same at school.

I would be very wary of thinking that her brownie friends will suddenly let her into their school friendship group and become her best friends just because they are pleasant to her at brownies. What your dd wants is actually a new "best friend", isn't it, a replacement for the girl she lost? Which would depend on there being a girl at the new school who is a good "fit" for your dd ^and who hasn't already got a best friend".

I think what I would do would be to point out to dd that this is a natural part in life, friendships come and go and eventually another one will form, but there are no quick fixes. Remind her that the year after next, she will go to secondary and a lot of things will change then; even if she makes a new best friend in a new school, they may still have to break up the year after. But then again, lots of people make new friends at secondary.

I agree with the point made about adults being able to change jobs if they are unhappy- but how many of us would feel secure enough to throw up a perfectly good jobs just because our colleagues were not close friends?

Well crisis averted for now, playtimes have been rearranged at the school so that dd1 and dd2 can be together at playtimes (before upper and lower school were separate), so that makes dd1 feel a lot happier, as she always has "backup" in dd2 if she needs it.

Glad to hear things have settled for now - I hope they continue to improve.

I was also going to suggest being wary about moving her simply for friendship reasons. Often I had children coming into my class who hadn't found it easy to form friendships at other schools. However, they often found it even harder to settle into a new class who had been together for a while already and form completely new friendships. As the teacher, I would do what I could for them - buddy them up with someone in the class, etc, but they seldom found it easy to form a deep friendship with anyone. I used to wonder whether they wouldn't have been better remaining in familiar surroundings, rather than still feeling bereft of friends in unfamiliar surroundings.

Is she in a 1-form entry school or are there other classes in which she might find a close friend? Even if she is not with them in class time, perhaps she could be with them at playtimes and after school?