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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

6 year old can't grasp Estimation in maths

42 replies

ForMashGetSmash · 19/10/2010 17:37

So she's brought 2 different lots of homework this week...both were work sheeets based on estimating things.

Todays were pictures of rows of sweetjars and she was meant to estimte how many beans were in each considering that when full the jars could hold 50.

She just kept plucking random numbers from the air...I tried to explain the concept...if this one has 50 in it and this one is half full, then how many beans are in the half full one? And she would just say 10 or 80 or whatever.

She can add, subtract very well now... so Im not sure how to help her really. Any ideas?

OP posts:

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mrz · 19/10/2010 18:45

I always say estimation is a "sensible guess" but lots of children struggle with the concept of estimation. Most want to count

claig · 19/10/2010 18:51

Sounds like she doesn't really understand fractions and their relation to division and multiplication. Try the following type of explanation.

Look at the number of sweets in the jar, and try and see how many times you would need to add the same number of sweets until the jar is full. So if the jar looks 1/5 full, then altogether you would need to add the original number of sweets 5 times to fill the jar (i.e. the original amount in the jar plus 4 more times the original amount). So the original number multiplied by 5 = 50 (the complete amount to fill the jar). What number multiploed by 5 gives 50? Answer 10, so that is original number.

Or alternatively you need 5 times the original number to fill the jar (and give you 50), so the jar contains 1/5 of 50 which is 50 divided by 5 which is 10.

RoadArt · 19/10/2010 19:05

I imagine a lot of 6 year olds might struggle with this. They are having to visualise pictures to convert to numbers and this is a whole new learning concept

This will have been introduced so that children do learn to "read" picture information as an alternative to just learning how to manipulate numbers

It sounds like your DD doesnt understand fractions (as previously mentioned) but at 6 this is still early days.

To help your DD I would physically use beans in a jar/container and count them out and visualise them, and demonstrate halves, quarters, full, etc.

Original poster

ForMashGetSmash · 19/10/2010 19:16

She hasn't encounterd fraactions yet....I mean they haven't even done multiplication! I suppse I should use beans....real ones...bt what is the use of her learning to estimate when she has not done multpiplications or anything yet>?

OP posts:

alicatte · 19/10/2010 19:23

Get a tube of smarties.

Count them out with her and write down what a full tube of smarties contains. (no eating until she's finished) Then say eat about half of them - you can help her if you like. Count each one on a tally sheet and then add them up.

Then ask her to guess how many are left - pointing out how many she ate. Do the calculation and check it with the remaining beans. "So DD about half of 60 is 30 or 32

Get your secret spare smartie tube and pour out some smarties. Get her to estimate how many.

Show her the worksheet.

Worked for me.

claig · 19/10/2010 19:26

yes it sounds a bit too early to be covering this type of thing, because I think ii is about fractions and you need to have an understanding of multiplication and division. No wonder she is just picking numbers at random, she has got nothing to really fall back on.

Original poster

ForMashGetSmash · 19/10/2010 19:32

Thanks guys... I did write in her home-school book that she didn't grasp it at all...

I said how she is picking numbers at random...it's not really my job to teach her is it? I thought I was sending her there to be taught by THEM? I is a private prep...tiny class so no excuse really...

I know I'm here to support her...and help things stick...but I see no point in sending work home if I have to try to teach her what it means. Especially considering I may teach very differently. What do you think? Why bother sending work home that a child has not grasped yet? Especially if they have just turned 6!

OP posts:

mrz · 19/10/2010 19:39

Estimation is taught from reception but at this level any reasonable guess would be acceptable Number fractions will not have been taught yet so although she may recognise the jar is half full she won't know that half of 50 is 25 (no expectation for her to know at age 6)

Original poster

ForMashGetSmash · 19/10/2010 19:41

mrz....I thought she knew what half of 50 was tbh. Now reading yur post I see that while she can ADD 25 plus 25 and come up with 50...thinking in terms of halves is different and may take some other games.

Should I show her pies and things yet? Introduce halves and quarters? Or is that jumping the gun? Shall I stick to jars of bloody beans? I am sick of all this...I hated maths and now it has returned to haunt me!

OP posts:

alicatte · 19/10/2010 19:43

Maybe you should make an appointment with her teacher.

twopeople · 19/10/2010 19:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

claig · 19/10/2010 19:48

It's too early. What is the point of guessing? How will the child be taught why their guess was wrong? Are they just told, "no that's wrong, try again". I would have thought that that would knock their confidence, and they will start thinking that they are rubbish at maths, when it's not their fault, because they haven't been taught the necessary concepts.

Original poster

ForMashGetSmash · 19/10/2010 19:48

Sigh...her poor teacher! She has at least one pushy keen parent on her case every day and there's only 10 in the class! Hopefully she can help me through the book communication...I don't want to hassle her...already been to see about DD's dodgy spelling last week!

OP posts:

mrz · 19/10/2010 20:32

But what is an estimation ? an approximation - assessment of the likely amount (a sensible guess)
Obviously if the child estimates (guesses) 1000 and the jar holds 50 and is half full the estimate is wrong and the teacher would talk about why it is wrong but if the child estimates 22 or 28 for example then that would be acceptable

RoadArt · 19/10/2010 20:32

I think this would be taught in Years 4 or 5

claig · 19/10/2010 20:37

'if the child estimates (guesses) 1000 and the jar holds 50 and is half full the estimate is wrong and the teacher would talk about why it is wrong'

Interested to know what the teacher would say. How would they explain that 22 was a good guess and that 10 wasn't?

mrz · 19/10/2010 20:38

It is actually taught in reception as I said earlier RoadArt. It doesn't worry children as claig seems to fear.
I might estimate that it is 15 miles to the station when it is really 18 miles and no one is going to say I'm bad at maths

megapixels · 19/10/2010 20:41

I don't think this is the kind of thing you can actually teach is it? It comes from understanding different things in Maths and applying it themselves. If she can't do it after you've explained it to her then I'd just leave it, it's something they have to just "get". As a parent that's what I'd do.

alicatte · 19/10/2010 20:42

The subjects are revisited at different levels throughout the years. Most schools have a 'calculation strategy' which defines which methods the teachers will use and revisit through the years in each strand - so it is not too confusing for the children (this is where tutors sometimes make a difference because they teach a child a way that is more understandable to them - it is also where some tutors make a difference by confusing the child even more)

For example: multiplication would initially be presented as repeated addition Year 1 and 2 and then they might move to grid method followed by long multiplication because that ties in with the grid method.

mrz · 19/10/2010 20:59

Much easier to teach without the use of worksheets. The lesson would usually involve making estimations then checking to see if correct with actual objects.

claig · 19/10/2010 21:10

What is the learning objective in this type of guessing? What underlying mathematical principle is being taught apart from just "getting" it. as megapixels said? Why give homework on it, when a lot of kids are bound to get it wrong, because it is just pure guesswork?

What is the difference between state and private schools when it comes to teaching maths? Do the private schools follow the same National Curriculum? Is the only difference the teachers? Are they covering the same syllabus at the same stage?

Original poster

ForMashGetSmash · 19/10/2010 21:14

I would like to know that too claig..about curriculum...tbh I see things on here and have no idea what people are talking about...re their DC's and curriculum at state schools.

THe independant schools seem to go their own way about lot's of things...which makes it hard to compare and know what's normal or works well.

OP posts:

RoadArt · 19/10/2010 21:15

Sorry, got interrupted. We are using Maths Whizz and they have been covering estimation in Year 5 lessons

I mentioned beans earlier, but any small item is suitable - buttons - sweets - lego, etc.

spanieleyes · 19/10/2010 21:21

Estimation is used to develop a feeling of the "rightness" of number It helps children as they progress through maths as they can use estimates to check work. How many times have you been shopping and the check out girl provides a totally unrealistic total but which she can't see must be wrong "because the till says so"?

mrz · 19/10/2010 21:25

Apart from EYFS private schools don't have to follow the National Curriculum and there isn't a syllabus. I'm not sure there is a difference between teachers either except it is statutory for state school teachers to be qualified whereas private schools can employ unqualified teachers

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