6 year old can't grasp Estimation in maths

[ForMashGetSmash]

So she's brought 2 different lots of homework this week...both were work sheeets based on estimating things.

Todays were pictures of rows of sweetjars and she was meant to estimte how many beans were in each considering that when full the jars could hold 50.

She just kept plucking random numbers from the air...I tried to explain the concept...if this one has 50 in it and this one is half full, then how many beans are in the half full one? And she would just say 10 or 80 or whatever.

She can add, subtract very well now... so Im not sure how to help her really. Any ideas?

Hmm...all our teachers are qualified luckily! We have a booklet given to us whic lists their qualifications. I never knew though that they could employ unqualified teachers...intresting!

Estimation is vital. But surely it is based on some foundation of knowledge rather than just getting it. Suppose you are lucky and you get close to the right answer for 50 sweets. How can you ensure that you get close to the right answer for 75 sweets or 160 sweets, if you don't understand fractions? the OP's daughter guessed 10 , then 80 , then whatever and I can understand why, because she didn't even know what 1/2 was.

There is sometimes a tendency not to want to teach times tables by rote, without the understanding of what is going on. But times tables are very important and it is therefore worth learning them by rote.

Why is it worth guessing and just "getting" it, when you are unlikely to be able to repeat it in one month's time, since there was no underlying logic to it?

ForMash yes they definitely can be unqualified. I have read of a teacher at Eton, I think it was, who did not have the PGCE qualification. I think private schools can choose who they want. I'm not even sure if they need a degree.

It sounds like they can diverge from the syllabus after EYFS.

This is what I am hoping DD's teacher will explain to me I am glad I wrote in her book that she was just guessing...no good helpin her get it "right"is there?

But that assumes there is a "right" answer for estimating, there isn't, just a range of answers that we would consider acceptable. In year 1 anything between 10 and 30 would probably be a reasonable estimate, it shows the child understands the number needs to be smaller than the original, as the child's mathematical understanding of proportion increases they would realise that they can refine this estimate by using the knowledge they have of fractions of shape and number.

State schools can employ unqualified teachers BTW.

Curriculum can vary but IME most follow braodly the NC in terms if literacy and numeracy at least.

Many young children would just guess. It;s just getting them to see that is has to be a sensible guess.

So if half full and was originally 50...it can't be more than 50 and it can;t be a really tiny number, and it can't be really cose to 50 either.

You could get out a long number line - make your own. Mark on 1-50. Fold it in half and what do you get.

yes if the child understands. But isn't it possible that the child just guessed it near by fluke? How do you know that they understand? If the child guessed out of the bounds of acceptability, how do you explain why they were wrong apart from just telling them what the answer should have been?

'You could get out a long number line - make your own. Mark on 1-50. Fold it in half and what do you get.'

yes that is good, because it introduces the concept of 1/2 and fractions in a visual sense.

Can state schools employ unqualified teachers?

In Reception the National Numeracy framework LOs are
Estimate a number in the range that can be counted reliably,
then check by counting.
Make simple estimates and predictions: for example, of the
number of cubes that will fit in a box or strides across the room
Y1
Estimating
? Understand and use the vocabulary of estimation.
Give a sensible estimate of a number of objects that can be checked by counting (e.g. up to about 30 objects).

Y2
Estimating and rounding
? Use and begin to read the vocabulary of estimation and
approximation; give a sensible estimate of at least 50 objects.
? Round numbers less than 100 to the nearest 10.

Y3
Estimating and rounding
? Read and begin to write the vocabulary of estimation
and approximation.
Give a sensible estimate of up to about 100 objects.
? Round any two-digit number to the nearest 10 and any threedigit
number to the nearest 100.

Estimate a simple fraction.

Y4
Read and write the vocabulary of estimation and
approximation. Make and justify estimates up to about 250,
and estimate a proportion. Round any positive integer less
than 1000 to the nearest 10 or 100.
Estimate and check by approximating (round to nearest 10 or 100).

Y5
Use the vocabulary of estimation and approximation.
Make and justify estimates of large numbers, and estimate
simple proportions such as one third, seven tenths.
Round any integer up to 10000 to the nearest 10, 100 or
1000.
Estimate by approximating (round to nearest 10 or 100),
then check result.

Y6
Estimate by approximating (round to nearest 10, 100 or 1000), then
check result.

From 1 September 2008 the following people can do 'specified work' (the way that the law describes usual teaching activity) in maintained schools or non-maintained special schools in England:

* teachers with QTS
* trainee teachers on mainstream or employment based routes to QTS
* OTTs who have worked here for less than four years since the first date they did so
* instructors (as defined in section 7 below)
* staff employed to assist or support the work of anyone falling within one of the categories above (subject to their having the necessary skills and being supervised and directed by a qualified teacher).

thanks, mrz,

'Give a sensible estimate of a number of objects that can be checked by counting (e.g. up to about 30 objects).'

that seems a good LO, sounds different to the OP's example.
Do you teach the OP's example to 6 year olds?

No I wouldn't use worksheets to teach estimation.

yes I think worksheets and the fraction concept is too abstract for a 6 year old. If there were a pile of sweets on the table, then that is a useful exercise in estimation as it is physical and visual and also as it doesn't introduce teh concept of fractions.

Yes, state schools just call them instructors ot tutors. However, it is normally for subjects where expertise in a specific area is more important than the teaching side such as a specific sport, music or art element.

TBH, in the vast majority of schools in both sectors, unqualified teachers are only used in this way, not as class teachers.

It is more likely to occur in secondary than primary.

.

I see, so guitar teachers or piano teachers could be used, and they wouldn't need a PGCE?

But an instructor or tutor can't be the main teacher they are only allowed to "teach" occasional lessons such as a music specialist may be the instructor for every year group for one lesson a week.

Yes, I see