clever girl yr2

[mitz]

I don't want to sound all big headed but one of my children happens to be seriously clever. I don't take any credit for it, same as I don't take any blame for the others. But I know that at school she is doing work way below what she can do, she can't be bothered with the homework and says at school she helps the other children out or goes and reads a book when she's finished her work.

I've got parents evening in two weeks. What can I say to get the teacher to give her more/different work or should I just shut up and be glad of her 'problem'?

I can't imagine a child who is even a little bit motivated. I'm not sure the novelty would ever wear off.

LeQueen, I've only just seen your question. My professional opinion would be to ask the professional who teaches your DD each day for their opinion!

Seriously though, do ask her teacher. My personal opinion (not knowing your DD) would be to avoid hothousing but to continue to encourage her love of learning. Follow her lead; if she wants more maths to do then ask her teacher what she'd recommend, if she's fascinated in a particular subject visit the library to borrow books about it but most of all, remember that she's only six and encourage her friendships and social activities too.

But mollieo - a little boy (Year R?)who quite deliberately procrastinates in order to avoid work sounds quite clever to me And what fantastic training for his future role as a MAN

OP - good luck when you meet the teacher. Some good advice given and I don't have anything to add as far as that's concerned.
Ds (year 2) was apparently 2A in Year 1. He's bright but hasn't been identified as particularly intelligent iyswim - and possibly for some of the reasons se13mummy mentioned. He is articulate, reads well, very good at maths and has a good imagination but he is careless when completing tasks. He gets distracted easily and makes sily mistakes. He stalls (ala mollie0's ds)and tries all manner of diversions when he should be sat at the table doing his rather simple homework. I'm not that fussed about the standard of homework because I'm inclined to agree that it's not hugely important at 6yrs of age. I'd rather he focuses on attention to detail and execution of work (neat handwriting/avoiding mistakes etc)than complex tasks. The latter can come later.

lol leq, all 3 of mine want constant blooming sums. and they get really narked if i ask one a question and a younger one answers it before they do.

if it's a straight through primary there shouldn't be any bother for the op, though - it's pretty straightforward to cope with a bright yr 2 if you have access to yr3,4,5,6 stuff. if it's an infant school (like mine were at) tis a bit trickier, but they generally manage. ours ran percussion classes for the more able children, and recorder club. it was invite only.

but the older the dc's get, i get less excited about them being bright
now that the youngest is in yr 2 (in yr r she was assessed as working at 12yo) i'm afraid i've sort of abandoned her to the system.

the gp suggested i send ds1 to boardning school. (he's another boy that won't do any work because they give him more. every teacher he's ever said says 'golly isn't he bright?!' then 'golly! isn't it hard to get him to actually do anything?' his yr 1 spellings included 'fluorescent' ffs, just because it made the teachers laugh to see him churn them out - they loved him.)

and the ht is waiting for me to make an appointment to discuss dd1's assessment results (she's been offered a place on the regional programme for more able children).

can i have some of your enthusiasm please, op? i seem to have lost mine.

just ask how her work is being differentiated. and buy her the hp books if she hasn't read them already - mine loved them in between yr 1 and yr 2. just as well, as in yr 2 the class had hogwarts group names lol.

LeQueen, I think your dh has a point. Though I would be thinking in terms of extension rather than hothousing. Doing different things at home that will not conflict with what is being done at school, but will exercise the same part of the brain.

If her reading is good, let her read, but perhaps also let her learn another language- preferably one that she will not be studying at school within the foreseeable future. (When I got bored in English lessons, my parents let me learn Latin and Greek). If she is good at maths, let her do music or chess. Or navigation- my parents did their skipper's certificate together with my brother. My other brother taught his son to compose music: they both have very mathematical brains, so my dn got an outlet for his mathematics urge without having to cover the school syllabus twice.

It is important that you show her that learning is not confined to sitting passively and being given more sums or that only things taught at school constitute "real learning".

Mitz I so sympathise with your frustration. I used to be very positive about primary education for my children before I had any. I got really annoyed with the ridiculous and pompous things colleagues of mine would say about primary teaching at the public school I teach at myself.
But the fact is that after a wonderful Reception for dd1 it has been continual frustration ever since. Why is there quite a wide spread assumption that to teach a more able child the 'next thing' is somehow harmful or pushy for them? A previous poster talked about why should a child 'need' to be taught more, as if education is simply unavoidable stuff that has to be taught at some stage, the later the better.
I want my children to have their curiosity about the world stimulated and to be given the skills to become thinking and intelligent people in adult life. As an A Level teacher I spend my time trying to graft onto students a set of skills and an intellectual curiosity they do not come with. Naturally the parents of these students want them to do very well in their A Levels. Yesterday as I told my AS Level History students that they would write a better essay if they read more, I knew perfectly well that for most they have neither the intellectual curiosity nor the reading stamina to spend leisure time reading about the Crimean War! One or two students will and a I will help those that are willing by trying to make lessons fun, help broaden their reading by spoon feeding them extracts, coaxing them with the reward of better grades to try that bit harder. I don't think its wrong to want my dc's to be in the minority of those I teach that want to learn and have the skills to be able to.
And I don't think letting my lovely bright dd2 think learning is something to be put off, that school is about passing time socialising because there is little to learn, will help her be an educated and informed, intelligent and articulate adult.

What happens if you hothouse them at home... do they end up doing GCSEs at 11yo? Then A-levels at 13 and off to Uni? Seriously, unless child is very unhappy with too-easy schoolwork, what are the benefits of accelerating them up to their possible potential?

You don't always know that they are unhappy. IMO there is nothing more dangerous than a bored child.

My own ds is very clever and after many years of problems was diagnosed with ASD,ADHD and Tourettes. He was then tested and found to be very very bright.

I knew he was bright, just not how bright and how unhappy he had been.

After accelerating several years the problems have vanished.

Le Queen I would let her push herself as far as she wants to go. Not hot house necessarily but allow to pursue her own interests at her own rate.

If you can afford it that is as my own ds is heavily into physics and maths and is independently following A level studies at home.

haven't read the whole thread but last year when dd was in y2 she was getting thoroughly frustrated because the work was so easy

I was worried because her attitude to school was changing completely - from being a sponge desperate to soak up learning of all kinds, she was starting to become complacent, "what's the point in trying" ... she was also being used as a mini TA by the other kids on her table to help them with spelling, maths etc

I went in to see the head and her teacher after a few weeks and they agreed to start her off on the extension stuff, rather than making her plough through loads of stuff that was way beneath her level, and once she'd finished that she'd go onto the 'super-challenge'

it worked for a bit, but unfortunately the general ability level in the class was quite low so the brighter ones tended to get left to get on with it

lots of people suggested extension type stuff at home, but she already did quite a few activities after school and frankly, she wanted to work at school not sit there all day and then do extra stuff on top

we moved her for the start of y3 and she's not looked back - never once complained she's bored at school

ladylush he is in yr 2. I hadn't thought of it in that way but you are so right.

He already has mastered the tuning out not listening to a word I say skill so it is probably only right that mastering procrastination is next.

Amazing really as I'm a single parent and ds doesn't have any male role models and yet he is mastering those important life skills necessary to become a man!

'What happens if you hothouse them at home'

That misses my point nobodyisasomebody - I want my child to be interested at school, not bored. Thats not about accelerating a child towards a goal. Its about them having the chance to enjoy learning. Yeah, I'd love my child to do well academically, that would be cool, but also fine if they don't. In the meantime I want school to be a place where they aren't bored and 'experience the joy of learning.'
Anyway no one is really discussing child prodigies here that sit exams ridiculously early - if very bright kids carry on the same trajectory in exam terms it means good A's at A level - not an unreasonable conclusion to the educational career of a bright child and not unreasonable for parents to hope their bright child, full of potential, gets given the teaching to make this a possibility. Or are you saying children will reach their potential whatever their experience at primary? Its a brave idea to presume that a child's experience of primary education has no impact on how they do later...
If a parent doesn't care how their child does at school thats fine - in a way I don't either. However, maybe I'm a snob, but I do value the company of intelligent and informed adults and have that ambition for my children. I'd like school to play a part in helping make this happen.

I agree camicaze. I wanted the same for my son and fought very hard to jump through the hoops to get him an education that nurtured his love of learning.

Kids spend six hours a day at school and deserve not to be bored or thwarted in their attempts to learn.

God who'd be a teacher ? Do others feel that the attainment differences are greatest at around this age ? There seems to be a massive range within Ds' year one class. I dont remember such marked differences higher up in primary school, maybe they do even out. Or maybe some very bright six year olds zone out till secondary transfer ?

sorry ds is now year 2

Differences in performance seem, IME, to widen as children progress through primary school. My Y4 class covers the range from P levels (children not yet at the level of the National Curriculum) up to children accessing Y7/8 maths. It's likely that some of the children on P levels may never be assessed on the NC but others will continue to progress at the upper end so the spread will keep spreading!

But isn't it true to say that kids quite often make huge leaps in Year 2. Something to do with them clicking into reading/ writing when they're ready to and then once they've got that zooming ahead.

Kids often make huge leaps in Yr 2, true. But not all kids are making the same leaps, and not all kids will then carry on putting sustained effort in throughout secondary school. I think it is more that the differences are so noticeable when they are little; we live so close to them and we talk about them. Now that my dcs are either at secondary or fast approaching secondary, I don't go to coffee mornings and talk about dd's English marks or ds' reading levels. But clearly big differences in the work being done by top and bottom set. Of course there must still be differences: in a few years' time, some of those kids will go on to Oxbridge and others will struggle to get onto a vocational course at college.

Hi there my question is what is wrong with being a pushy parent?
Who else looks out for your child but you.
I am a primary teacher and a pushy mum ( for reasons stated above).It sounds to me that your daughter whether she is especially bright or not is not being challenged appropriately and if she is showing this level of disatisfaction before half term in her new class can you afford to let it go on much longer. Schools have a responsibility to differentiate to meet the needs of all pupils, so I think that you have a right to ask what the question is she being sufficiently challenged by the work offered to her. Based on your experiences with her and her homework thus far I would think that if she honestly is finding homework too easy and it is a consolidation of the work being covered in class, then you know the challenge is misssing. I have been out of amainstream classroom for a little while but I think schools are soon to be obliged to offer G&T provision on a par with SEN provision. Many teachers bristle at the notion of "pushy" parents, but as I said at the start who else has DC's best interests at heart. This is not a dress rehearsal this is it. I suggest you talk to Class teacher at open night and ask for further appointment to discuss your concerns the 5 minute appt is not the right place to discuss, just about time to outline concerns. Ask yourself if DC was struggling and having learning difficulties which were leading to disaffection would you wait and see?

Mitz, I hope you get your faith in teachers restored. As one myself I am so sad to hear your bad experiences.

At the start of this year my daughter was being sent home with reading that was far too easy for her.I agonised over the exact wording of a humble query in the home/school book for ages. The next day I got a long message back: the temp TA had put the wrong books in and the class teacher had now in any case assessed all the children and decided to put her level up. So now she's getting the right books. Did my message have an effect, or would it have been sorted anyway? I don't know. But mentioning my concerns certainly didn't do any harm. :)

Thanks for all advice, I'm going to write down key phrases and bring them out as necessary in the meeting.

Really intersting thread.
Makes me realise how lucky we've been with our very bright DD2, yr3.
At nursery, the staff kept questioning who had taught her to read. Nobody had, she couldn't, and was memorising books word for word.
On starting reception, she was quickly identified as gifted, along with 3 or 4 others in her class of only 16. I remember the teacher telling us at the time how lucky she was to have so many gifted children.
It worked really well, as they all bounced off each other. Two of the other girls were free readers from early in reception, DD didn't get hers till yr1 as the teacher wasn't convinced she understood evertythimg she was Reading, and wanted her to slow down.

The class became 22 in the January when the younger ones joined. When they moved to yr1 , the original 16 were in the split yr group with yr2. They sat on tables according to ability, and DD continued to work with the others in the gifted group each yr1 also had a yr2 partner for some activities.

We were a little concerned at the start of yr2. As there were just to be two classes of 22/23 again, so no split year, the classes were to be mixed across the age range. DD was the only girl from her table going into her new class. So we were worried she would be held back, being the only gifted girl.

We met with the head to discuss, and were assures she would always be given appropriate work for her ability. Additionally, if she was unhappy after two weeks, they would consider moving her into the other class. As it turned out, she settled really well. There was one other boy in the class at a similar level, and the two of them were given separate work.

Slightly worried now as this boy left at the end of yr3, and there is no one else in the class anywhere near her ability on literacy. They are set for numeracy only.

We also have parent / teachers next week, so hopefully can get some reassurance then.

Why can't there be a best practice for this sort of thing. (not just g&t there must be of areas were experience in one school could benefit others)

I'm hearing of all these wonderful strategies to help kids stay interested and fulfill their potential (and to make sure the parents are involved and informed) but no, none of this at the school my kids go to!

Surely teachers can talk to eachother, network, write papers.

It's like we've got the worst of all worlds - a cottage industry with varying practices and standards but a factory environment with all the care and consideration of the final product that that entails.

I do think that it partly depends on the parents too.

I have friends with dcs at my ds's school who are amazing at getting info and support for their dcs. I just don't have that knack, it seems.

I've watched ds being pretty much ignored because he was 'average' and only this week when I've thrown my toys out of my pram have I had a change in attitude (have a chest infection so feel pretty ropey and not in a mood to take prisoners).

I do feel that it shouldn't have to take that but I don't know how else to deal with it.

It shouldn't be up to parents to have to elicit information and try to get the best deal for their kids.

Quite apart from the obvious way this discriminates against kids whose parents are less vocal, parents know F.A. about education, Yet we're the ones who are meant to get the best for our kids, know what questions to ask, somehow know when there's a problem etc etc.

Why can't there be parent advocates in each school? someone who talks the language, knows about education and can act on the child's behalf regardless of how useless or unecessarily bolshy the parent is.

Her teacher should be givning extension work if she finishes. You need to tell the teacher that she's doing work that seems to easy for her and ask how work is 'differentiated' in class. The teacher should be planning for all differing levels and setting the class work accordingly so some tables might be doing a lower work book than other tables for example, but they would all be doing the same topic.

It seems lazy of the school not to extend her and they're not fulfilling their side if they're just letting her do her own thing or helping others. That's what used to happen when I was at primary (I used to finish and then be allowed to go and take down displays or tidy out the cupboard). That shouldn't be happening in 2010!