Anyone else irrationally obsessed with their dc academic abilities?

[mine24]

I try hard to not dwell on what book band, ability groups etc., my ds is on and in. The silly thing is he is only in year 1 and i know rationally that things will be up and down throughout his school life. But i find it hard not to worry and feel a bit competitive. Please help me chill out.

Fantastic post pagwatch.
As well as the whole rat race thing, the other problem with striving for this 'end' is that we have a generation of kids who want everything right now without effort - five minutes of fame etc. Makes for an odd combination with the children of pushy parents!

I'm reminded of an interview I saw a while ago, with two brothers, gifted at maths - they were asked what they wanted to be and they both said something which most people won't have heard of (financial) I was shouting at the telly because it wasn't their ambition. They were like little robots :(

I too am guilty of wanting to know which groups they are in for reading and maths - partly because I have no other way to know how they are doing compared to their peers, but also because I can't help being a little bit competitive! I think it's fairly normal for parents to want the best academically for their kids and as long as you aren't pressurising them to "move up" at an early age,can't see the harm

No.
Maybe I am a truly crap mother.

But I genuinely don't get the "because I can't help being a little bit competitive!" thing

Not having a go at you sazzle... I hear this a lot and I know it slightly tongue in cheek etc but it goes to the whole point.. so many people seem to feel like this.

Why would your child doing well at say, reading, reflect well on you? Why do parents see themselves and each other in terms of basic abilities their child does or does not possess.

I am really proud if people say to me that one of the Dcs is polite, or kind, or well mannered because I genuinely feel I have had some imput there.
But ifthey talk about DS1 being very bright that is nowt to do with me that is genes and good luck. Exactly the same as DS2 having learning difficulties - genes and bad luck..

If more parents stopped trying to take vicarious credit for things that have nothing to do with them perhaps it would take some of the stress out of it.
When you think about it it is pretty idiotic that a bunch of us have our self esteem wrapped up in something so random...

That is really interesting Pagwatch, and I totally agree

I think that is the difference sazzlesb and I really feel some of the stress is because a lot of us do not have a grasp of dcs education so any 'negative' remark/situation can worry us to death(me,at least).
I want to do the best for my dcs but at the same time I do not want to push them too much which isn't easy if all you know Year 1s(for example),are doing at school is what you read in the forums.
Personally,I feel too much is expected of the children in UK too early. They are expected to do mental sums with their little brains,read books all the time whether they want or not,spell words,write long stories,etc. If there is any pressure I feel it has come from the schools or the UK Education System!

I totally agree with you pagwatch. Totally...

I think there is a difference between 'living through your dcs' and 'wanting to do your best to help them'

When I was growing up,I didn't do well at all in high school. I blamed(and still blame) myself for being too lazy. Sometimes when I think about it,I wonder if I would have done better in the end if either of my parents had shown any interest or tried to help me at all.

I am happy when people tell me my kids are polite,happy and confident. They did not 'just' turn out that way. It took nurturing and hard work. Parenting is very intense. If they are to turn out well academically too,they need our support as well. IMHO.

I try to support what they are interested in, and find ways to help them with things they are struggling with but I reward them for effort not results. I was a high achiever, with perfectionist, intellectual parents. And it did not make me happy At All.

Additionally my eldest ds is dyslexic, so I had that achievement, what level, what table, thing kicked out of me pretty early - which helped.

I totally understand and am so glad its not just me who's like this!!

However I do tell myself he's happy and achieving well, and doing what's asked of him. It doesn't help that there's so much secrecy surrounding the groupings. Then starts the gossiping, chinese whispers and all round worrying about who's in top set etc!

I find myself thinking the opposite of what asdx2 has posted, namely that with PFB the whole school thing was a completely unknown area; I would not have DARED to question her reading level with her teacher, was completely oblivious to levels, and the only gauge of how well she was doing was when she occasionally used to say "I have overtaken X with reading" or vice versa.

With DD2 I kind of "Know the system" much much better, partly obviously having been through some of it already; Also I have a lot of friends who are teachers or SENCO's, know my ITP from my ILP from my IEP, have worked out the subleties of levels and sublevels, know reading recovery and benchmark assessment scores, targets, G&T, SEN, acronym after bloody acronym, and all of this has made me much more aware of DD2s position and it is a bloody nightmare! I wish I wish I was still blissfully ignorant!!

I think I am irrationally obsessed with not being irrationally obsessed with DD's academic skills!!!

I was very happy when DD was put in the nursery/reception class rather than the reception/yr 1 class, as I thought it would be easier for her to progress at her own speed, and to not feel pressurised to achieve or to feel that she was not doing well enough.

However a number of other parents with reception children in the same class were gutted that their children wouldn't be pushed to achieve more, and wouldn't have the Yr1 children to aspire to.

I can't understand it. Maybe when DD is in secondary school I will worry more but for now I am MUCH more worried about her being happy in school, making friends, and feeling settled and confident. There's plenty of time in years to come to get on the treadmill of stress, competition and worry!

I want ds (yr 2) to be whatever he wants to be. What bothers me most (and was the same in yr 1) is, mostly, he can't be bothered unless he is really interested in something. Unfortunately this is having a profound effect at school and he is now behind most of his classmates.

Outside of school he has lots of different interests and is doing very well. I just wish school would spark his interest before it is too late.

lovecheese I think my experiences are probably not typical and so explain my position.My dd1 left yr2 with level 1's and struggled until yr5 academically next year she will study maths at Cambridge most likely.Ds3 has a statement and a place in a autism unit with full time 1 to 1 support.Dd2 my fifth child has a statement that is as tight as it gets (I am a fast learner ), her IEPs are SMART, her statement guarantees her needs are met. I can relax now knowing that I will get a daily report off her TA a weekly meeting with her TA to discuss targets and a half termly update from her teacher because they are written in her statement

There is definitley too much focus on 'levels' in school.
Last year our dd was in year one. They had up on the wall two ladders (literacy & numeracy), and various 'learning goals' against the rungs. All the children's names were placed on this at the level they'd achieved meaning that every child and every parent knew exactly how well or badly each child was doing in relation to their peers.
Luckily our dd was pretty much in the middle but even so my dh and I were both very perturbed to see this as it seemed to write off those at the bottom and even those at the top could feel under pressure to maintain this lead. At parent's evening we discussed how uncomfortable we felt about it with the teacher and she agreed that it was not useful and took it down.
I was frankly amazed that the teachers (it was a job share) hadn't thought it through when they'd gone to the trouble of making the ladders in the first place. I can't imagine what purpose they hoped it would serve.
I have to confess that I spend more time than I should thinking/wondering/worrying about my dcs academic progress. My dh doesn't bother about it much, but I guess that in general is the difference between mums and dads.

Sops I hope they burnt the ladders! I thought that actual class position was confidential.

My DH is also a lot more chilled than me!

I think it's joining MumsNet that fuels all this. We share far too much info here and obsess over all sorts of ridiculous stuff. We'd all be better off not being on MumsNet :)

I was very relieved when ds' school introduced levels. Because ds is was not very clever, and this meant he could sit with other children working at his pace, rather than with the brightest children in class who were always looking over his shoulders and noticing that he couldn't do what they did.

With Dd (pfb) I didn't have anything to compare to tbh, so the whole school thing was new to me. She was reading anything you threw at her before reception, I knew she was bright so didn't really worry.

She tells me nada about school tbh, I know nothing of groups or tables (she is in yr2). Although it is a very small school with only one class per year. I know she used to do work with yr2 in yr1, but no idea this year, she has a parents evening this week so hoping to actually find out how she is getting on. Although she did proclaim herself the cleverest in her class . I did ask who had told her this, but she said "I just know" it was only said to me, so I didn't worry. I don't even know how you can be competitive really, unless you help out in class etc, her teachers have never compared her to her peers, it's all individual progress. Like you say, it will be in fits and spurts, it means nothing to be top in yr1, it's not like they reserve your oxbridge place ready.

Another kettle of fish is Ds1, he has his first parents evening next week (nursery). He isn't interested in letters/numbers atm as dd was. But he does have lots of comments about his lovely nature and enthusiasm. As he is a poppet I'm happy, I'm sure I will relish every second of those wordless ORT books forced .

obsessed? totally! should know better genes etc. know what she can do at home and should be pleased but worry that she is not performing at school, cos she says she is too shy. worried about social and emotional too. i think whether we worry or not is down to our personality, i come from a long line of worriers and worry(!)i have passed it on to dd

ps thanks to mn for keeping me half way near sane

Re Pag's comment that cleverer people are not any happier. TBH I think my issue is that I do associate my happiness with my very good fortune to have been born bright academically. I come from a lovely but very average family academically (first generation to go to university etc) but had the good fortune to be born in a grammar school area at a time when the whole tutor thing did not exist (at least to my parents' knowledge) so benefitted from the true grammar school ethos. I really enjoyed school and did well; had lots of friends etc. I ended up at Oxbridge, got a first; well paid job which I (mostly) enjoy etc, met DH through work.

I know that it is undoubtedly true that there are people with similar academic ability to me who are not happy and people who did badly at school who are extremely happy. However, of the people I know best I would say that my university friends are on average much happier with their lives than my siblings and friends from home who did not get into grammar school. I know this is probably coincidence but nevertheless I associate doing well at school with choices, and choices with happiness.

Overall my primary driver as a parent is to do my best to ensure my kids are happy, even if not academic, it is just i suspect they will have more options, and are therefore more likely to achieve happiness, if they do well at school. I acknowledge that there are lots of surveys which indicate I am probably wrong in my thinking, but it is very hard to distance my views from my own experiences. I try my very hardest to hide my thoughts on all this from my kids (I think i have been largely successful - it feels like a guilty secret and I am glad of the opportunity to occasionally share that secret on here).

Honestly Timetomove academic ability and happiness is really not linked in any way. I was always top etc, even now doing ou, I get good marks. Hasn't helped me in any way yet.

Social ability, motivation, a general sense of being able to cope with the world is soooo much more important than actual academic ability.

I was always great at taking tests, got good results etc. No good at actually engaging with the world and taking responsibility.

Confidence is the key.

Honestly, I will tell you that my friend in sixth form got much worse A-Level results than me.(Thanks Facebook). I am now a no hope SAHM, I have A-levels and ou credits. She is now a teacher and does many different things based on her talents. Really, she is flying high.

She is confident and happy, I'm well, me. Life is not straight forward, build up your childrens confidence. This along with ambition is the most important ingredient.

I think I'm a 50-50 mix of timetomove's experience and feelings (very similar history) and coinoperated girl. OTOH, I do think academic success has given me choices and some measure of happinness but OTOH I have less useful personality traits that have seriously undermined me both personally and especially professionally.

Maybe it's something to do with our original SES background but I also see my graduate friends as being a lot happier in their lives than my school friends. But maybe that is less the case if you start from a better place. But of my graduate friends - some of the more mediocre students have fabulous careers.

I don't think I'm obsessed - but maybe others would think I am??? I certainly am interested in dd's academic progress and keep an eye on that stuff. I don't know about groups - but I would quite like to and will probably ask (feeling akward and sheepish about it) at parent's evening.

I am VERY concerned that she will not undermine herself as I have done and that is a much harder issue to fix - confidence, discipline, keeping the emotional life under some kind of control.

I do often get comments about how I must be expecting dd to follow in my footsteps (Oxbridge etc) which really irritate me - I don't want her to feel my shadow as a burden and I'm glad we know longer live near the University so that she can have some distance from the whole Oxbridge-academic bandwagon. Any R-group will do nicely...

As my children grow, it has become clearer and clearer that they are not me, and that consequently what made me happy is not necessarily going to be the same thing that makes them happy. This does not mean happiness will be denied them, only that they have access to other sources of happiness.

Cory - this is soemthing I am really woring on myself these days. I realise I am over-identifying with dd sometimes as if I am trying to re-parent myself.