So I can't afford the school trip...

[madhattershouse]

Basically I'm on benefits My twins have a trip totalling £26 and my older boy has a week trip costing £256...I can pay the deposit BUT where the hell do I get the rest from?? I have just about got the £76 to pay in the morning but there is no way I can get £200 for the full price. This is a foundation school so I have to see the head to ask for help with funding. Hate to feel like a beggar...how do I go about it?? There is no way I can fund the full amount ( I have paid in full for every other trip they have had) dreading dealing with the head as I just can't stretch to this. Your thought's please...

Sadly there is no sale of old uniform at the school (there was many years ago) and they are doing no fundraising. All costs are to be covered by the parents. Ihave no idea about the geography side..they are yet to give us an itinery for the trip. They needed the deposit before they booked.

They are offering to help though as they have agreed to take payments in instalments - offering to help is not the same thing as paying for a child to go away for the week. If the trip isnt until June next year then its likely the head will allow instalments into at least March.

It doesnt sound compulsory, just a benefit to Geography. Ask them what any children left in school will be doing if you dont want to pay in instalments, its rare only one does not go. Most schools run a year 6 residential but its not compulsory.

Fundraising is a good idea if the school makes few requests but the funds raised would have to reduce the cost overall for everyone not just benefit one child.

There may be no fundraising at present but that's where you come in... offer to run a cake sale! Make it clear on the posters/whatever that proceeds will go to a 'school journey fund to provide support forchildren who wouldn't otherwise be able to go'.

Madhattershouse - will you PM me... think I may be able to help you but need more information.

I too have had this issue before , i have three children and the costs for school trips is very stretching my finances as i am currently unable to work due to long term illness.
The3 letter we recieve when a school trip is organised is quite wrong , it always says that they require a voluntary donation of £xx.xx to cover the cost of the trip otherwise it may not go ahead.
This makes me wonder if the trip is actually needed for the curriculum , this also feels like a threat to the parents to force them to pay even when they cannot afford it.
I have asked the school to change the wording but they seem unwilling to .
Maybe a campaign is needed to get this issue sorted out in all schools as the school recieves the funding to pay for the trips for everyone.

Nicurro, the phrase you've mentioned is the one that is meant to be used in letters requesting 'voluntary contributions' for trips etc. The idea being that children whose parents cannot/won't pay are not excluded from the trip but that parents understand that most school simply don't have the money to pay for everyone to go. If insufficient money is received towards that trip then it has to be cancelled so as to avoid discriminating against those who haven't paid for whatever reason.

I'm not sure what gave you the impression that 'the school receives the funding to pay for the trips for everyone'. I wish! The vast majority of state schools won't have the resources to fund trips if parents don't pay for them.

Why then does the government say that all educational trips are fully funded ? Do they not stand by the legislation or are the visits of no importance.
So why should a trip be cancelled if enough "voluntary contributions" are not received.
Mixed messages i believe.....

Do you have a link/source for the government saying they will fund all school trips? I'd love to see it as it will make my life as a teacher a whole lot easier.

Trips/visits are important as they massively enhance the children's learning experience but schools need to cover costs somehow and I doubt anyone would say trips are more important than having enough, qualified teachers, books, pencils, clean toilets etc. etc. That's why trips sometimes have to be cancelled if not enough money is given via the voluntary contributions; we're not allowed to prevent children of non-paying parents from going on a trip but we're also only allowed to charge the actual cost (or less) per child. To avoid excluding some children cancellation is often the only option. Sad but true.

www.dcsf.gov.uk/popularquestions/questions.cfm?keywords=&gatewayCategoryID=11&mainCategoryID=203&expandID=4099&new=0

is one of the many links that are on the internet...

Nicurro, that link definitely doesn't say the government will fund all school trips - it says that schools can ask for voluntary contributions but that if there are not enough voluntary contributions to cover the cost, then the trip can be cancelled. Which is what we've been saying all along.

www.direct.gov.uk/en/Parents/Schoolslearninganddevelopment/SchoolLife/DG_179512

I am sure that this says that it must be free , voluntary contributions are allowed but surely the funding is in place before the trip is organised.
School governors i ask also say that they receive the funds for trips also.

I'm a school governor and we dont get funding for trips - we follow the same rules as every other school - asking for voluntary costs from parents and would cancel if a number choose not to pay as the school could not afford the costs from its budget.

If thats the case then , are the trips of any importance to the education of the child if you would cancel them if the parents didnt pay?
Have the Governors asked about funding from the Government or other sources or do they just expect parents to burden the costs involved?

Most trips we organise are used to enhance the childrens learning rather than replace it, so for example this term we have been learning about Ancient Egypt and our trip is to an egyptian exhibit and workshop, so it depends what you mean by "important to the education of children" They offer the children real life experiences that they cannot get from books, internet, films etc ( we are making egyptian costumes, seeing a real mummy and sarcophagus and handling egyptian artefacts. Yes the children can learn about ancient egypt without undertaking the trip, but their understanding of the topic would be enhanced by it. Unfortunately we haven't found any government source of funding for school trips so, if we don't have sufficient contributions to cover the costs we can't go.

"just expect parents to burden the costs involved" - isnt part of being a parent providing for the child financially? Its not the schools or governments job to do that.

Yes they could stop all trips but would you really want your child behind a desk all day every day with no memories of trips with friends to look back fondly on or enrichment of learning with hands on visits?

Is it not enough to pay for the dinners , milk , fruit , school clubs and spend on the fayres that are on through the year as a parent or do you really think that all families have endless supplies of money to pay for extras that they need to go on some of the trips also.
Obviously you have endless ammounts of money to do this but most families may not have .
You might be one of the people that doent require the child benefit as well so maybe the government could take this away from the rich and give it to the poorer to pay for these costs!!!!!!

Nicurro, for goodness sake! If you're that poor surely you're on free school dinners - which ARE funded by the government! Milk and fruit - well, that's simply providing for your child's bodily needs. School clubs are generally free if run by the teachers, unless they bring in an external coach (And after-school clubs are optional) or if you're talking about breakfast clubs and extended hours care, you don't need to pay for those either - you just need to pick your child up at the end of school. If you work, so you can't, then surely you'd be paying for childcare anyway and generally school extended hours care is cheaper than a CM?

Again, spending at the fayres is purely optional - nobody takes a register of who's there and who isn't. But, interestingly, usually the fayres, etc are used as a way to raise money - money which is often used either to bring in visiting speakers, meaning trips are not required, or to cover the cost of trips for those unable to pay.

The key points you need to understand are these:
Schools receive no government funding for trips.
Schools request contributions from the parents to pay for them.
If not enough money comes in for the trip to be viable, it will be cancelled. It's either this or the school has to take the money from elsewhere in the budget - maybe pencils and paper.
Many teachers would be quite happy NOT to go on trips with the extra paperwork, risk assessments, organisation, etc they entail.
Many parents complain if they feel the children haven't been on 'enough' trips.
If you don't want your child to go on a trip, then tell the school that. They won't be forced.
Children often love trips and it's pretty much the only thing they remember from one year to the next.

I'm glad I'm no longer teaching - I'd hate to be your child's teacher!!

When I was on benefits (am not any more) and DD had her Y6 trip, I knew it was coming up because they did it every year. So I put £5 a week away for an entire year before the trip would be an issue (when DD started Y5 I started putting money aside). Does no-one else on a limited income do this?? I am no longer on benefits, bt I don't work, and DP is on a very low wage, but because he works we don't get free school meals, so the school will not help with any costs. And that includes the swiming lesons that DS1 has to do (as part of his PE lesson, that the whole juniors do). If I don't pay the £4.50 a week, he can't go...AND would have to sit in with an infants class. I pay. Next September, when DS1 goes into Y5, I will again start puting £5 a week away to cover his Y6 trip...because I know I will have to.

Gelena , at this school there is no such thing as breakfast clubs or extended hours care maybe because as you say there is no payment for these.
Also , please look up what benefits qualify for free school dinners as there are certain benefits that do not qualify people for free school dinners.
The fruit i agree is required for the childs healthy balance but the school now insists that children have to have the fruit that is supplied by the school at a cost and are not allowed to send the child with fruit from home.
I have never even blamed a teacher for any of this so why you seem to take it to heart i do not know but maybe your best off out of teaching.

Nicurro, to clarify- am I correct in thinking you have to send in money each week for milk and fruit at school?

Did you know about this before your child started at the school? What reason does the school give for not allowing parents to send fruit and milk from home?

This all sounds very strange.

"Is it not enough to pay for the dinners , milk , fruit , school clubs and spend on the fayres that are on through the year"

I dont get the argument re school dinners - you have to feed your children be it by paying for dinners or sending a packed lunch - no different to paying for their food at holidays or weekends. Milk and fruit are healthy foods but optional - if you dont want to pay then dont and provide yourself outside school hours.

Fayres are normally run by the PTA to fund extras that the school has no budget for - a few pounds donation benefits all and i'm sure you are happy for your child to benefit from the fund raising.

School is there to provide education not take over the role of a parent and certainly not there to provide financially for a child. Its well known how much it costs to raise a child before people have them.

HI FleurDelacour , the milk and fruit is paid per term , the school seems to have decided this year that the fruit for children over 7 years must be the fruit from school and not brought from home.
The milk has always had to be provided by school if the child wants it as they have never said that it can be brought from home.
We have fruit available at home for the three children we have and feel that we should be able to use this which is usually better quality than the school fruit and has already used our budget.
I know it is not a huge ammount of money but it seems that children are being used to gain funds for the school or they miss out.

HappyMummyOfOne , i am simply saying that the cost for the dinners etc are enough to provide the parenting side of school life.
Are you happy for your child to miss out if you dont't pay ?
I have never seen in any parent manual that you will have to ensure that when the child is in education you will also have the costs involved with providing the education which these trips are for.
The school receives £xxxx.xx / pupil and this should cover cost concerned with the education or maybe the school finances are not being used to good effect.

Thanks for clarifying nicurro- I have never heard of this being done in a school before.

Nic - I'm pretty sure that they can not insist that you buy the school fruit. They're probably doing it that way as it's easier to administer.

If you are entitled to free school meals than you are entitled to a reduced price on a residential trip. The bit about wholly within school hours is explained here -

'For residential activities, a trip counts as falling within school time if the number of school sessions missed by the pupils amounts to half or more of the number of half-days taken up by the activity.

Each school day is normally divided into two sessions and each 24-hour period is divided into two half-days beginning at noon and at midnight.

For example, a term-time trip from noon on Wednesday to 9pm on Sunday would last for nine half-days, include five school sessions and would count as taking place in school time'

DCSF guidance for governors