8 year old threatened with exclusion because he won't sit still in class

[Bettiboo]

I'm at my wits end with my ds school. It would seem he just won't sit still and distracts the other children. Otherwise he seems to be doing ok. I love him dearly and have very little issues with him at home but have noticed he finds it hard to sit still at home too. He's bursting with energy! The school appear at a loss as to what to do with him and I don't know what I can do when I'm not in class with him. I could cry with frustration. Poor little DS desperately sad too. I'd really value any ideas!

IndigoBell: that makes so much sense. To be honest I don't think it has anything to do with punishments and rewards. I absolutely feel there's an underlying issue that needs to be dealt with and managed - I just don't know what! I don't have a great deal of faith in the school being able to manage this. I feel they think DS is simply being defiant and doesn't want to do as he's told. I feel he's a reasonable child who responds well to reasonable instructions (from me). He has his moments, but no more so than the other children I interact with. I'm sure it's something about how he fits in to school and their system. There's a part of me that can understand he does have to just fit in because the teachers haven't got the time or the resources to deal with each child individually, but surely they've had to manage with these types of issues before and learned ways to plan and manage.

My son was doing this and the school were not helpful just moaning about the situation.

I insisted that I get a daily update in his home school book and we put in place a reward system. Slowly the situation has improved. I was dreadfully worried though as I was presented with a severe problem but had been given no advance indication that there were any problems. Very poor communication.

Hang in there and get the school to work on a joint strategy.

indigo - a behaviour plan and appropriate reward system is often used with adhd type children as part of their ongoing support though. and should be used before meds are considered in any case.

i think an ep assessment would be a real bonus here tbh.

(interesting that different management techniques work too - various labels have been suggested for ds1, including adhd/ as/ asd/odd, but his responses can be so variable that i'm not 100% convinced by any of them.)

there are loads of adhd type books on the market - one of the ones i found that gave me some ideas to think about was 'from chaos to calm' - like all of them, some bits were helpful, some weren't at all, but it was good for starting ideas anyway.

how is he with general organisation? getting ready for school on time/ eating his breakfast/ packing his school bag with what he needs/ bringing his lunch box home etc?

NickofTime: he's ok with organised. He gets his things together with a bit of prodding. I have very little issues with him at home. He does as I ask (mostly), he is a really bright, articulate boy. He helps me tidy, make food, gets himself ready in the morning, following bathtime etc. I'd say he's a fidget more than hyper. He eats his breakfast fine. I get his organised for PE etc. He always forgets his jumpers and I have to get his coat from the main school each day. He has a short attention span but will happily sit through hours of film at the cinema. He loves learning online and will sit with me through a book (but will fidget, e.g. playing with his toes). He gets over excited with other children around and would happily go without food when there's better things to be done. He just wants to be doing stuff... he's always been like that. As soon as he opens his eyes he asks me "what are we doing today... and then what, and then what..."?

One thing we found really helped with managing ds's behaviour was getting to school to tell us about all the small incidents, so he knew that we would know when things hadn't gone well. That way it wasn't a horrible surprise to us when things escalated, and also so that we could talk him through what had happened and why (and what possibly he could have done differently). Sometimes schools have a tendency not to tell you about the smaller stuff, and if you are not picking up from the classroom every day then there is really little way of knowing there is a problem. One teacher wrote all the good stuff in ds's agenda (sort of home school book) and then emailed us about the issues. That worked well.

The other thing that may be happening is character traits which may not be terribly visible at home, where it is relatively calm and things don't have to be done the minute you say, are just much more of a problem in the school environment (and probably not just this particular school).

that's all good

it sounds as though an ot referral would be useful - she would be able to give the school some ideas as to how to manage that trait appropriately (fiddle box, blu tac, wobble cushion etc)

how's his handwriting?

NickOfTime: his handwriting isn't the best, but definitely improving. He has struggled with reading and writing but I've seen a definite improvement in the last 6-8 months, and I'm quite proud of how well he's doing now.

It would seem the school have decided to introduce a message book (or report - a copy of the system they used for a whole year when he was in year 3, except in book form rather than a folder). They did not discuss this with me, although I don't object to it, it would have been nice if they had discussed it with me first. The feedback for today was not good. He didn't sit still, didn't follow instructions and wrote on the whiteboard ' ... is gay). I was livid! We had such a good chat this morning and he was so excited about getting a gold star on his chart. His punishment was no TV, and after dinner, homework, then straight to bed with a story. He wasn't happy about it but accepted it. I wonder if I'll have a week of punishments rather than gold stars! I've arranged to see the school at the end of the week. I hope they don't suggest another year on report and that's it! I don't think it helps. I don't see how he can behave perfectly every minute of every day - does any child? Or should I absolutely stick with that moto? I don't know. I'm so tired of it all. I just want my son to bloody behave and we can all have an easy life!

Well, kind of an easy life...

um, 'on report'?

so, they've had him on a behaviour management plan for a whole year previously, and he's still writing 'x is gay' on the board?

did you have a copy of the behaviour policy? did you and ds sign up to a behaviour contract?

or is this a sort of woolly 'on report' that just meansthat sometimes they write in a h/s book?

i'm assuming he's yr 4 now - the same age as ds1.

you need to speak to the senco. you all need to agree a behaviour plan. the rest is all good, too, but if he has been 'on report' for a year and they are talking about excluding him, it may be that you have not appreciated the steps that have been taken already fully

'on report' ime, is certainly a step taken when a behaviour plan is not being adhered to - and can indeed be a precursor to exclusion - you need to check the school's behaviour policies and work out whether you have not recognised the less formal bits of the process (or if they have not been explained to you adequately). you do need to discuss this with the school to make sure you understand where your son is at according to their behaviour policy.

i'm worried now that they may have been adhering to their own behaviour management plan/ policy, and you may not have been fully aware of the seriousness of the steps they were taking.

they do still need to prove he has been given adequate support for his needs (and you are totally within your rights to ask if ep and/ or ot assessment can take place), but there is a difference between a child being unable to sit still, and a child that writes 'x is gay' on the board (when he is on report, lol) the management would definitely be different. (not saying a one off daft comment on the board is anything to get excited about - ds1 could equally do the same) but you need to clarify what's going on tbh...

x is gay happened on the day I wrote about it, no report at the moment, apparently they just want to see if there's a pattern to his behaviour, e.g. are there are teachers he behaves better with. No behaviour plan in place, no SENCO involvement and no discussion with me about any of that. I met with the school today and recent events include DS has it in for this little boy (x is gay) this is a very recent change in DS behaviour and school admit it is not DS usual behaviour. I'm appauled my DS is behaving this way and feel very emotional about all of this. I can't believe I have a child that would behave that way and be so cruel to another child. He's at his dads until tomorrow, so haven't had a chance to discuss it with him. I keep wondering where I've gone wrong. I try my best and treat my DS with love and we have a nice relationship. I wonder where it's all going to end.

Oohhhhhh. Don't be nearly so hard on yourself. You haven't done anything wrong.

X is gay is really not the end of the world. It's just a silly prank. Certainly don't blame yourself. Everyone does silly stuff sometimes.

So don't be hard on yourself - nor be hard on your son. He's just a boy. He hasn't pulled a knife on anyone or stolen something or punched someone. He is absolutely fine. Just learning what is and isn't acceptable behaviour.

Thanks IndigoBell. I needed that - a bit of sane advice. I'm a single parent, and although I have adorable friends and family, who support me and know and love DS, I feel like a failure sometimes. I just want everyone else to love him as much as I do and more than that just want him to be happy. I think he's having a hard time and that's why he's acting out at school. I think he has really low self esteem. I don't know why. Like every mother, I just want to make it all better. Thanks for your kind words. The good thing is that I've been reading a lot on MN and it gives me comfort knowing I'm not alone.

Sorry, should have been clearer and gave a bit more info about bad behaviour. DS not just writing x is gay, also being nasty to him, teasing him and laughing in his face when he was upset about someting.

Sometimes when children are suffering with low self esteem, they can pick on another child because they are trying to make themselves feel better, so their strategy is to put down someone else in order to feel better about themselves. Obviously not a good tactic. You may find it would help though to not only address his bad behaviour but also try and find genuine ways of building his self esteem. Talk to him about how you still love and accept him and think he is great even though you don't like his current behaviour or find that acceptable. Ask him what happens at school that makes him feel sad/stupid etc and see what comes out? Give him a chance to try and explain why he is behaving badly?

Thanks Sarah,that's really good advice. I would have been tempted to be really angry with him about bullying the other child. I sits better with me to take the softer approach. I just wonder why his self esteem is so low. I try to give him as much encouragement, positive attention and love that I can. I know he feels a bit embarrassed about not doing quite so well with his writing as the other children and he has struggled with his reading too, but is much better now. Any advice on improving self-esteem would be gratefully received. I wonder if he dad saying "that kid needs help" (in a very angry and cruel way) in front of him has anything to do with it? hmm

sounds like he's lacking empathy - ds1 was like this for years, he is, however, much better now (y9) than he was at your ds' age

we used to have a 'good behaviour' chart and we'd been told to 'catch him being good' - the only problem with that was that as soon as we praised him for something specific he'd think "a-ha! I'm on for a star ... now I wonder how naughty I can be and still get it" and he'd promptly do something terrible, obviously not get the star and then we'd have a whole new tantrum about not getting the star ....

however very, very gradually he has managed to modify his behaviour - and it's sometimes in such tiny incremental amounts that it's only when I look back at what he was like 2-3 years ago and compare it to now that I realise how incredibly far he's come

I just wanted to make a point about rewards and punishments being meaningless if there was a specific cause for his behaviour - part of me understands the rationale behind that ... but, and it's a big 'but' if your ds wants to live in the world with everyone else then he will have to deal with the consequences of his behaviour, even if he can't help it. We had a tantrum from ds1 tonight because he chucked the xbox controller around in frustration and broken it - I told him he had to pay for a new one out of his pocket money - cue ranting and raving about how it wouldn't make any difference next time, it wouldn't make him stop and think etc etc And yes, he's right, when the red mist descends he can't access the rational bit of his brain which would tell him that last time he did something like that he had no pocket money for a month so maybe he'd better put the brakes on ... however, as I pointed out to him, it's not fair on ds2 that he couldn't play xbox with his friends because of his brother's behaviour, so if he damages something deliberately, then he has to replace it ....

oops ended up going on a bit there ...

My ds aged 7 yrs is a fidget but the school have been fantastic.

He sits on a chair behind a desk instead of the carpet with the others. This means he cant annoy anyone else.

If the chair isn't suitable he has a green carpet square he sits on

He has "fiddle" toys

He has little laminated cards with reminders of what he should be doing eg listening, writing etc and if he isn't doing them the teacher silently points to the card as a little reminder.

When they are lining up as long as he isnt annoying anyone else, the teacher ignores him jumping about.

We are under investigation for ADHD.

I am so sorry to hear this. Please get therapist involved ASAP. Such as an OT - sensory processing difficulties have a massive impact on how we concentrate. To self regulate some children wiggle and move about - there are a number of blogs on this.

Fiddle boxes really do help but you need the teachers on board. This is why a therapy report would really help. Check out

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00E40WZKK

for some fiddle / fidget boxes. This will help self regulating and therefore decrease fidgeting

I know this because I was a rocker at school and would be told off all the time. I had a fidget box following an assessment my parents paid for.

I hope you get the help you need. Best wishes

OLD zombie thread, Hayles.

And £19 for a few £1 bits of plastic