8 year old threatened with exclusion because he won't sit still in class

[Bettiboo]

I'm at my wits end with my ds school. It would seem he just won't sit still and distracts the other children. Otherwise he seems to be doing ok. I love him dearly and have very little issues with him at home but have noticed he finds it hard to sit still at home too. He's bursting with energy! The school appear at a loss as to what to do with him and I don't know what I can do when I'm not in class with him. I could cry with frustration. Poor little DS desperately sad too. I'd really value any ideas!

cat64, it wasn't what you said, it was the way you said it.
saying that the OP was scaremongering was unnecessary. and as I said before, she was hardly dripfeeding! her son HAD been threatened with exclusion so how is it ridiculous? plus the face which we all know means "i don't believe you"

if we're playing the "if you came on and said x,y,z then people would be more helpful" then i will add this

YOU could have said "OP, it seems unlikely that your son would be excluded just for failing to sit still, why don't you tell us a bit more so we can help?"

I see your pov, shellye: at the same time, schools have to work with all the children, and just allowing one child to be herself can mean that there are 29 other children who don't get a chance to be themselves.

My nephew spent several years in a class where the disruptiveness of 3 of the children (probably on the spectrum) was not checked, partly because the parents refused to have them diagnosed or investigated, so there was no possiblity of a statement or external support. The teacher could not cope with them and deliver effective teaching to the rest of the class at the same time- so the teaching lost out. The other children were very unhappy about the disruptive situation and about never being able to learn in peace. My nephew was getting very irritable and tired, and felt nobody cared about his needs. In the end, his parents took him out of the school. They felt he had missed years of his education.

Cory - A child does not have to be diagnosed or investigated for them to get a statement or external support.

The school has loads of resources to use (eg Behaviour Support Team, ASD Team, Ed Psych) which don't require any support from parents.

Nor do (I think) they need parents consent to apply for a statement.

A lot of schools are just very bad at coping with children and their behaviour - and prefer to blame it on bad parenting.

Hi OP.Quick post as on way out.Just wanted to say that there are loads of different learning styles and a small percentage of children have the learning style where they need to walk about etc[can't remember what it is called,sorry...]A recent article by the headmaster of Eton mentioned a young boy who used to wander round the back of the class and it did not affect his or the other children's learning.I haven't read all the posts but I saw ADHD mentioned and just wanted to say that children [particularly boys]often do find it difficult to keep still.If I remember name of learning style I will post it.

Doobydoo - I think you mean Kinesthetic learning

That's it!

Thanks to everyone. It's been a really emotional day. I rang the school and spoke to the head, who was really nice. However, before I spoke with her I spoke to the class teacher to ask why exclusion hadn't been discussed with me and whether we could meet to look at a range of options so that we don't get to the exclusion stage. She said that was ok but that the deputy head had also told DS that he was likely to go to a behavioural support school - this would suit him better! I was in shock. I discussed this with the head and she said she couldn't believe that was what was said - well that's what the teacher told me so I can either think she's lying or confused. I'm going in to see them next week and hope we can come up with something to support my child who clearly is having some difficulties at the moment. What I'm not going to do is worry excessively, exaggerate the situation or take on board exP suggestion that I'm a bad mother! Thanks again.

ps. will do research on kinesthetic learning style. thanks

Oh, this has made me [angry} Schools are designed to fit most pupils needs, and not all. And this child is one that school isn't perfectly deigned to fit.

So the class teacher doesn't know what to do with him? Does the head have any ideas? Or do they need to get in outside help to offer them ideas on what is best for your DS. If so they need to get this, and you might have to gently encourage them .

I bet the head was really nice to you! She's said something to your DS that she shouldn't really have said (but then we all say things we shouldn't at times).

I plan to suggest outside help when we meet next week. I don't want to be too hard on the school but it is really frustrating when they are not managing the situation well. I don't think exclusion will work with my son. In fact,he may well welcome it because he finds it so difficult. I've got a serious headache. I never thought I'd experience this with my child. I thought I was doing a good job! Fingers crossed we come up with a good plan to move things forward and improve everyone's experience. Your support means a lot.

"Cory - A child does not have to be diagnosed or investigated for them to get a statement or external support.

The school has loads of resources to use (eg Behaviour Support Team, ASD Team, Ed Psych) which don't require any support from parents."

This was abroad where I think they did need parental permission to access any funds.

But my post was aimed at shellye's suggestion that all would be well if the school would only let a child "be herself".

Which I know is not at all what the OP is saying.

Sorry to hear about your difficulties, OP; does sound like they are managing it ver badly.

I think that it is the deputy head that someone (the head) needs to get a grip of. He cannot go telling a pupil that they will be excluded and then be talking about sending the child to a behaviour support school without even discussing it with the parents.

Shellye, I loved your post, it was really refreshing to read that someone feels the way that I do. I absolutely adore my DS, he's so individual,loving, sensitive and caring to others. He has good friends and is popular with pupils and teachers. He just gets himself in a bit of a tizz. Of course it's entirely unwelcome by the teachers who have a job to do. I understand that. I just wish their job involved a wider understanding that not all kids are compliant and 'well behaved'. It's a difficult situation. I don't want my DS to change. I completely adore him just the way he is. Here's hoping for a successful resolution.

..I understand that. I just wish their job involved a wider understanding that not all kids are compliant and 'well behaved'....

What would your ideal solution be, given the limitations of probably, a good majority of teachers, who might 'understand' but not manage especially well?

I'm thinking of one particular child I had, who was 'managed' with the help of an assistant,a behaviour specialist, and the tolerance of the rest of the families.
But one parent would not tolerate the potential harm to his child.

Teachers do develop in their management of such children as the year progresses, after trying out different tacks, and the child also settles down somewhat. It's is still early in the year in UK I believe.

Have you considered that your very positive attitude to your child's behaviour might be making it difficult for him to deal with the different expexctations in school? ("I don't want my ds to change.")

my ds1 does 2 dance lessons (inc musical theatre), swimming, ice hockey and trampoling every week and still can't sit still in class.

nor can he sit still at the dining table (his bottom rarely even touches the chair)

but he can sit still for hours when he's on his ds, or at the cinema, or reading.

gp prescribed ritalin, but didn't really bother to find out much about him, just sort of doled it out, so we haven't given it to him.

but agree - ask the senco if she has drawn up a behaviour management plan, an iep with behaviour targets, and whther she has eferred ds for an ed psych assessment.

that should show the school that you mean business, even if they don't.

My ds is a bit like this too, although he tends to fiddle with things rather than walk about (and also can be still when he wants). Also gets into terrible tizzes about things. Now he's 11 what used to be tantrums have turned into sulks which is easier to ignore manage. He had a few assessments when he was younger most of which seemed to be fairly borderline, so physically he's not very stable (he's tall and very thin) and his fine motor skills aren't great, and he has some sensory issues. So he had a bit of physio, went to gym class got some help from the social communications lady, tried lots of different pencils/pens (various grips and angles) and they wanted to try out a cushion which increased his sense of contact. So there are lots of possible things that might help your son. The school can organise referrals or you can ask your GP.

In the end for ds what worked was teachers that understood him, a firm line and behaviour charts for a long time, and mostly just growing up. Plus as he got older his teachers involved him with some of the behaviour management, so getting him to understand why although flicking rulers (say) didn't stop him working, it was a problem for the teachers and other children. He's a bright child doing very well at school now, but when he was 6ish the SENCO thought he was autistic. Sometimes people read far too much into children's behaviour.

As a teacher I am horrified. Go and talk to the head (who it sounds needs to do a lot of training to do with her staff). Ask if your son is on the special needs register? He should be at school action plus if it is not something the school can deal with itself. This is if his behaviour is causing the level of disruption that their comments imply.

You may want to contact parent partnership (look up parent partnership on google).

You can be on the SEN register just for behavioural issues (and they don't have to be that bad, I've known pupils to be on there for anxiety). No school should ever be talking about exclusion with such a young child.
Is the head new? I just wondered as your conversation with her seemed more reasonable.

Good luck!

I've been concerned by how the school manage my child for some time. It's difficult to relay everything on a 'thread'.

Malaleuca: I'm positive about who he is as a person and love him for who he is. I'm not positive about his 'bad' behaviour and punish him appropriately as well as showing my disapproval and disappointment. I definitely want his difficult behaviours to change.

The Head seems ok but it would seem that exclusion is the route they will take. As far as I'm aware his difficult behaviour is limited to the not sitting still and not doing as he's told when asked to sit still and listen (no aggression, violence - I've had no complaints from other parents and the parents I do know think he's adorable) pure and simple defiance and oppositional behaviour. Maybe there's more to it and it hasn't been explained yet. I'll get more info next week. I'm keeping an open mind and I'm hopeful things will be resolved. If not, I may end up the mother of a child in a behaviour school (it makes me feel faint). Although I should say I was having dinner with friends last night, one of whom is a clinical psychologist - she was in a pupil referral unit - she's a well rounded professional woman now, so maybe even that's not the end of the world!

Probably impossible if you are a single mum, but there are a lot of children in the home education community who would find it impossible, for a variety of reasons, to be compliant and docile in a classroom situation. Just throwing it out there. :)

Bettiboo....I very much doubt your DS will ever end up in a "behaviour school". You are obviously doing a great job with him, and the school need to buck themselves up.

Would changing schools to one that are more used to DC with behaviour issues be a possibility?

ds used to find transition very difficult - moving from one task to another. Also understanding consequences, so it could be difficult to reason with him in the way that you woudl a more "normal" child. Is that hte sort of difficulty your ds has? These sorts of traits can be fairly easy to manage at home, but obviously more of a problem at school, where things need to be done at particular times.

We had a unit for children with behavioural difficulties at the children's primary school, and the behaviour of the children in the unit was really quite distinctively different. ds had some common characteristics but just to a much much smaller degree (and he did have episodes where he woudl thrown himself to the floor and scream for example, at 6/7, real toddler behaviour). It was very handy because we were able to access some of the resources, like the social communications specialist (she did some whole class work with ds's class on how to play together, taking turns etc, and just gave the teacher some really good advice). ds also used the sensory room sometimes as a reward. I think he just found school overwhelming at times.

I should point out that on the whole it is not at all easy to access special schools, referrals are made after assessments and diagnosis, probably statementing. Not just a school not being able to manage.

look, it isn't possible for them to exclude him without proving they have given him the support he needs to improve. unless he does something particularly violent or aggressive. we had a child who threw chairs, tables and scissors, and although he had a couple of half day exclusions after incidents, it enabled the school to get the financial support they needed form the lea to provide an understanding 1-1. there are 'behaviour problems' and there are boys that are a bit fidgety and mildly disruptive. unless the school haven't told you an awful lot, they aren't going to be able to exclude him.

whilst you are making your appt with the senco, find out who the sn governor is, and give them a call too. or the chair of govs (sometimes it's the same person) - they will be interested to hear how the school management are dealing with such an alledly disruptive pupil, and interested to hear that they are not going through appropriate provedures before they use the last resort of exclusion...

if they are genuinely planning to exclude your child, they will have to involve the governing body in the process anyway, so best you give them a heads up, anbd ask for some advice in order to prevent it.

senco.
iep with targets.
behaviour plan.
ed psych assessment.

the longer you/ the school take to get these put in place for your son, the more difficult it is going to be.

NickOfTime: thanks, I would never have thought about school governor. As a full time working, single parent, I don't spend a great deal of time at the school or actually know a great deal about the education system. I'm better informed now. I check out the school website for who the governor is and chat with them in advance of meeting with the school.

My DS came back from his dads yesterday. We had a good chat. He was very emotional, saying that he's really trying. He doesn't seem to know why he finds it really difficult to sit still or why he's so defiant. I suspect there's something to do with being centre of attention. He responds very well to me, he's reasonable when I ask him to do things (most of the time anyway). On the other hand he is very disrespectful to his dad. It's interesting that his dads choice of punishment is 1 month of no toys or TV and straight to bed after dinner (he only has him twice a week). That feels extreme to me (as do all the other responses to DS). Am I kidding myself - do I need to be stricter? My punishment for him was to cancel a movie day planned with his friend. I've also introduced a sticker plan - a gold star every day and on day 5 he gets a treat. If he managed gold stars for the rest of the month, he gets a weekend in London (we're going anyway but he doesn't know that). Sorry that was a really long post...

Bettiboo - the thing is that is their is some reason underlying his constant movment (as discussed before, such as ADHD, Sensory Processing Disorder, Dyspraxia....) Than rewards and punishments won't be effective and will only make all of your lives miserable.

I think it's reasonable to assume (at this point) he can't sit still and then try to work out why. But rewarding him with stickers or treats or punishing him with no toys or TV definaltey won't get to the root cause of the problem and definately won't provide him with the help and support he needs to thrive in the classroom.

Perhaps he's a tactile learner and you ask his teacher to try giving fiddle toys/blue tak/biro or something to hold in his hand/s whilst he's working/listening.

Does it seem to be worse when he's sat listening on the carpet than when he's involved in something like playing/writing?

Would have thought though that his teacher would have known about tactile learners before now...if that is the problem.