Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Flip

1 2 3

Original poster

Should i say something?

73 replies

Floandno · 06/10/2010 16:11

My 4yo has just started at a CofE school. Not our first choice, as we are both avid humanists, but it was the best one that we had a chance of getting into. Very nice school, very nice teachers, all good.
So, today was harvest festival. He came out of school saying that his teacher told him that God created everything. I obviously tried to explain to him that lots of people believe lots of different things about how everything was created and that was just her opinion, but because his teacher said it, he of course now believes the same. I'm absolutely furious. Not really about what he believes, thats his choice and of course we support him, but more so about it being taught this as though it was an incontrovertible fact. I feel like i'm totally overreacting, but at the same time, i think it's so wrong that they're teaching religion as fact and not belief. I feel like they're lying to him.
Should i say something? I'm so torn!

OP posts:

myredcardigan · 06/10/2010 17:08

Well actually in the foundation stage children do learn that stories that begin 'Once upon a time' are just stories.

However, when a teacher stands up in assembly and tells children that many years ago a particular event happened then they tend to believe it as fact.

Original poster

Floandno · 06/10/2010 17:09

Emptyshell, firstly, his school is hardly convenient, it was the only school we had a chance of getting into. It's a 30 minute walk there and back. We don't own a car and the bus service is terrible.
And i'm certainly not sugesting that they re-write the entire Christian belief system, i was simply just wondering if it was worth pointing out to them that we don't share those beliefs and how perhaps they could consider bringing in a slightly wider perspective when they tackle big concepts like that. I mean, surely it would have been more worthwhile telling them that farmers grew and reared their food? I think thats a much more interesting story!
Anyway, i'm now thinking i may have overreacted a bit, so thats that!
Thanks Pernickety, that looks like a fab book. Can't believe she was taught that at a non-dom school.

OP posts:

teacherspet33 · 06/10/2010 17:37

C of E schools are expected to teach Christian values, beliefs and are inspected on on the faith and spitituality education they provide.

magicmummy1 · 06/10/2010 18:30

OP, I think this is inevitable in a church school.

Imagine how shocked I was when my then four-year-old dd came home from her non-faith school telling us that Jesus was the light of the world.

She is now five and has recently come to the conclusion that she believes Jesus was real but he can't be the son of God because God doesn't exist.

zapostrophe · 06/10/2010 18:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ruddynorah · 06/10/2010 18:52

the best thing you can do is to ask your ds what he thinks. don't go in all guns blazing saying you disagree. you need to encourage him to be able to think through things he's told and question them, and respect them where appropriate.

for example. god created the world. ok what is god? how do you think the world was created? the big bang? well that's a big power/force isn't it. lots of people believe god is a big power/force that made the world. same thing really.

luciemule · 06/10/2010 19:11

I completely agree with you OP. Our children go to our local primary (5 min walk) and that is a C of E too.

I, like you, think that they should say things like "some people believe that....." etc but apparently, that's not how it's done.

I grew up going to the very same school and believed everything they told me - unilt I was old enough to question it and then realised it was all crap and became a non-0believer.

DD (8) is skeptical/anti God too but DS (5) is so into the whole Jesus thing, it's quite funny to listen to him. The other day, they both came home from school ttelling me that in assembly, the head told them all they each had 2 dads; God the Father and their own father. I was livid to say the least!

Only one more year there until we move to a very non-religious school thank goodness.

JoBettany · 06/10/2010 19:32

Sorry, am I missing the point here? Your DC's are attending church schools. Were you expecting it to be non religious? Did the whole CofE 'thing' not give you a clue?

That's like going to Italy for a holiday and being miffed that everyone speaks Italian!!

However, I am interested in the idea of a very non religious school!

luciemule · 06/10/2010 20:16

When I said very non-religious, I meant very compared to where we are. The school we're to is not a c of e.

I was totally aware of the links with the church; it's just that our head likes to brainwash the kids as she goes along.

Bit strange though as she was 'serious catholic' before getting the job as head at this c of e school and had to convert. Couldn't have been that serious a catholic then

pointythings · 06/10/2010 20:31

OP,

Please don't worry about this too much. Also don't try and challenge him at home - children his age are naturally inclined to believe anyway. As long as you have frank and fair discussions at home about faith and the lack thereof, your DS will eventually be able to choose what he wants to believe, and in the end that's what it's all about. I'm an atheist, DH is a non-churchgoing Christian and our DDs go to a CofE school - like you I was very worried when DD1 first came home with a head full of God - she even told me that I HAD to believe in God. I told her that no, I didn't, but she was free to do so because it wasn't up to anyone but herself to decide what to believe. DD1 is now nearly 10 and has decided that she is a humanist (and announced this out loud at school in RE lesson but the school didn't make a fuss. DD2 is 7 and still very much a believer, but ultimately it's up to her, and the conversations on the topic in the household just go on...

HuwEdwards · 06/10/2010 20:34

"I feel like they're lying to him."

Well maybe the school feel like you've lied to them by sending your humanist-raised child to a church school.

pointythings · 06/10/2010 22:09

Actually HuwEdwards, that's pretty harsh. When I applied to have DD1 go to our CofE school I made it absolutely clear on the application form that I was an atheist, and that we were not church-going people. The school just happened to have places because there weren't enough children in the year cohort to fill all the places.
I chose the school not because of its academic record (that was pretty average) but because of the warm atmosphere and good behaviour of the children that I saw when I visited. I was lucky to have a choice - OP clearly didn't have much of one.
And was mentioned above, I was worried about religious indoctrination - the difference was that I trusted my DD to find her own way. (Disclaimer: Though I am an atheist I have no intention of raising either of my children 'i the faith' - whether mine or DH's. If they want to be Buddhists, pagans, Muslims or Zoroastrians, that's up to them. I wouldn't be a good parent otherwise, but that's just IMO). I hope that OP will find it in her to let her DS find his own faith, or lack thereof.

FiveGoMadInDorset · 06/10/2010 22:16

No don't say anything and yes they will learn that farmers grow their own crops but in the science bit.

DiscoDaisy · 06/10/2010 22:18

2 of my children go to a non selective cofe school. Religious schools are all we have in our town but luckily because it is non selective the religious side is toned down slightly. One of my children believes but the other just sits quietly while the rest are praying in assembly. I tell him to daydream about scoring the winning goal for England in the world cup. Although I did point out not to cheer loudly when he had accomplished his dream as he might get into trouble!

Acinonyx · 06/10/2010 23:20

We are atheists with a dd at a CoE school. I teach her critical thinking and keep the faith

There's a fine but, I think, important line, between teaching that God is the ultimate creator and teaching creationism as a doctrine - C0E is not a fundamentalist creationsist dogma last I looked. If that line were crossed - I would be pretty cross. Otherwise I grin and bear it.

But Harvest Festival is nothing - Easter is definitely the worst [shudder].....

ragged · 07/10/2010 06:07

It will turn out fine, honestly. Most children get this early indoctrination and yet grow up to be like us adult skeptical secularists. My DS went thru a big Jesus phase at about age 6yo and now (10yo) snorts as derisively at religion as his dad does. DD is in Brownies and reckons she has to believe in God because of that, which I leave to her, no pressure. I tell DC that Jesus is like Father Christmas -- people believe in them because they like to. DC attend a community (non religious affiliated) primary, btw.

TBH I was more worried about DC picking up the Father Christmas myth at school than the Jesus thing. I never told DC about FC, and FC feels like A LOT more of an obvious lie. FC myth makes DC obviously manic and obsessed with getting presents.

I am pretty sure that most teachers hate RE, too, btw, they have to stomach teaching a lot of stuff that they don't believe in either.

DandyDan · 07/10/2010 09:52

I agree with acionyx that there is a difference between talking about God as the ultimate creator and teaching creationism.

Someone commented - "It most certainly is not a historical fact and the teacher giving the assembly should not have told the children, 'a long time ago...'" but it says this nowhere in the OP, that the teacher was either saying it was a historical fact or using the words "a long time ago". The CoE has a belief in God as creator, and that doesn't negate the Big Band either.

I agree that as your child gets older, they will discern for themselves what they wish to believe from the many things they learn about the world. Children don't tend to emerge from CE schools as rabid fundamentalists.

Also you do not have to "convert" to Anglicanism to be a headteacher in a CE school.

luciemule · 07/10/2010 10:16

dandydan - I did wonder whether you would have to. But our head did anyway - I didn't make it up!

smee · 07/10/2010 10:52

OP all schools have to teach different religions as part of the National Curriculum, so maybe that's something to ask them about? At least then it allows the children to see the world's a huge place with lots of different beliefs. I'd worry if they're not teaching that at least.

fwiw, my son's at a non religious state school and Religious Studies are taught every week. End of last summer term he came home wanting to be a Buddhist. This term we had a phase of him wanting to be a Muslim. Seemed to boil down to him liking the idea of having a day off for Eid. A few days ago he told me he believes in God, Zeus and Spiderman. I don't care what he ends up believing in, so long as he respects others and decides for himself.

Also, am not sure if this helps, but I went to a CofE primary and can't remember ever believing in God, even at five.

DreamTeamGirl · 07/10/2010 10:57

smee
My son & my neighbour (both catholic aged 5 & 6) both announced the other week they wanted to be Muslim.
This was because I had cooked Halal chicken nuggest & turkey sausages because we had the muslim kids there too and apparently they are nicer than the normal nuggets and sausages!!

smee · 07/10/2010 11:22

dikkertjedap · 07/10/2010 11:28

Its not just Church schools, my dd is at local authority school and they also pray etc.

I have just explained to dd that some people believe that God/Allah/Jaweh have created everything and that mommy and daddy believe in the Big Bang and a scientific explanation.

She then said that she also believes in the Big Bang (she loves science, and has books about Big Bang etc.).

We have told her though that when they pray at school to take part as it doesn't harm anyone even if we do not believe in God.

emy72 · 07/10/2010 13:32

I am an atheist with a child at a CoE school too (not that we had the choice, as it's the only school in our rural village).

The strange thing is, it doesn't really bother me at all what they teach them at school in that sense, as there are always things I will disagree with - and I think my children will just have to make their minds up who to believe.

It's part of learning that adults and other people have different opinions and we as parents have to teach them to see that.

It's not been a problem for us so far, I have to say.

Acinonyx · 07/10/2010 14:08

''OP all schools have to teach different religions as part of the National Curriculum, so maybe that's something to ask them about?''

At our CoE school (and I think this is typical) 'other religions' is entirely covered by 'judaism'. Hardly a stretch for them. I will cover other religions with dd at home.

As an evolutionary biologist myself, I can get a little touchy wrt creationism. Also agree - not keen on FC either. Our biggest challenge by far though is definitely the Tooth Fairy.

smee · 07/10/2010 15:25

acinonyx, am pretty sure it's a curriculum requirement, though I'm no expert. Any teachers out there who can tell us?

Flip

1 2 3

Swipe left for the next trending thread