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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

WWYD - DD has to write a prayer for homework and doesn't want to

58 replies

QueenOfFlamingEverything · 16/09/2010 08:27

Let me start by saying, we not Christians, but DD(7) goes to a CofE primary school. This is because we live very rurally and it is the only village school, about a quarter of a mile away. The next nearest three schools are also church schools, in fact the nearest non church school is over 5 miles away.

So please don't anyone wander in going, "Well why send her there if you don't believe in god, let the place go to someone who does, you hypocrite" - we effectively have no choice. We want her to go to the village school with the children she sees every day, and can't afford to drive her 100 miles a week to go to a non-church school.

She has come home telling me her homework is to write a lunchtime prayer. Fine, I said, lets think of everything/everyone we could give thanks to for the food in your lunch - the earth, the sun, the rain, the farmers etc. But DD says she has been told it has to start with the words "Dear God", and she doesn't want to start it like that.

Now I am generally very happy with the school and usually I fully support them on things but tbh I think its pretty unfair to insist every child writes a prayer to a being irrespective of whether they believe in that being or not. DD says she 'doesn't really' believe in a god and I accept that as her decision.

She has been to church services with my parents, and Jewish celebrations with my father's family, and pagan celebrations with us, so its not as if we try to shield her from any religion. My only comment to her on the god issue is that some people believe in a god, I don't, but that everyone can believe what they choose to.

So, should I let her write the prayer without the "Dear God" wording, or should I ask her teacher about it, or should I make her do it anyway?

OP posts:

formerdiva · 16/09/2010 10:06

Understand the dilemma. Your DD is entitled to her feelings and as her mum you don't want to disregard them. As adults, though, we often have to put our beliefs and feelings to one side if we're going to get ahead. For example:

To my boss: Thanks for the feedback - that's a really good build (translates as "I've a brain the size of a planet and a fantastic professional pedigree. You are only my boss by virtue of my wish to prioritise my family. Your suggestion to change the font of my business plan is unbelievably inane").

To my MIL: Gosh - how interesting. I hadn't thought of that (translates as "I will not wean my baby at 12 weeks, potty train her by by 12 months or refuse to feed her more than every 4 hours because I am actually a caring mother. And by the way, leaving your children when they were barely teenagers negates you from judging my ability to raise mine")

Good on your DD for having strong views, but it's not a bad lesson in life to know when to conform and when to rock the boat. This could be a great opportunity for your DD to learn it

whenskiesaregrey · 16/09/2010 10:14

Tippy, the person leading the Communion does make a point of saying 'You are welcome to take Communion if...' etc at the front of the Church every week before inviting people to come up. I think it is because the Church has a lot of people who come for a few weeks so they can get their child Baptised, and I think the Church is hoping that if they are included, they might keep coming. When I first went to this Church, DH and I refused Communion because we didn't think we could with not being confirmed, but then when we saw the babies and toddlers going up, and the grapes instead of wine, we realised it didn't apply in this Church!

StripeyMoon · 16/09/2010 10:21

I thought you couldn't take communion until you had done your first holy communion at 8 or 9? Our church tends to just offer ablessing if people want rather than taking communion (obviously only a blessing if they want that!)

I think formerdiva is probably right.

BlueHair · 16/09/2010 10:23

The term "God" does not belong to Christian - it's a generic term - she could be thankinsg any God, she could choose her favourite Greek Good, how many do the Hindus have? - and maybe that thought will help her feel less constrained.

serenity · 16/09/2010 10:24

No, definitely not the same person!

DS2 is Orthodox (and it's an Orthodox school) and is 'entitled' to take communion. They don't expect or ask the nonOrthodox children to do it, I would have gone ballistic if that had been the case. I presume any Catholic children could if they wanted to) but just doesn't want to (he has had issues in the past with taste/texture, and the communion wine - which is actually more like sherry I think - makes him gag) My view was that if he said no, then that should have been it, it wasn't a discipline issue, other children sat it out and he told them I had said it was his choice. He hadn't wanted to go to school that morning because he was scared he'd have to do it.

serenity · 16/09/2010 10:25

Apologies. I over used brackets in the last post but got distracted taking some out - hope it still makes sense!

mummytime · 16/09/2010 10:26

Actually its because the Church of England is "in communion" that is happy to share communion with, lots of churches which don't have infant baptism and on firmation. Eg. Baptists.
The Catholic church is not in communion with most of them, but some priests welcome/allow other Christians to take communion.

There are issues in the C of E church as for example the Australian Episcopalian allows children to take communion, which isn't part of the English tradition, but churches make their own policy on this.

niceday · 16/09/2010 10:28

Formerdiva - very good point

I would explain to her the word God has got a very wide meaning and though it has been over-and misused, is a very good word in essence.
When a christian says I believe in God, it does not mean they accept Allah as their god and vv for muslims. So when she writes "Dear God" it does not mean she addresses CoE's god, she can have her own understanding in her mind, say a much wider force of the universe.
It's just a game.

Fennel · 16/09/2010 10:32

If it's your local school and there is no viable non-church option, then I would say no she shouldn't do it unless she wants to.

I would get her to write an equivalent piece, so it's clear she is not shirking, maybe a story or poem about harvest, and I would write a firm note to the teacher about my objection to this.

and I don't go for any of that bilge about "God can mean anything". Not to me it doesn't. It might to some people, but that's not the point. It's a specific reference to something supernatural. and in a CofE school it has far more specific meaning than that.

sethstarkaddersmum · 16/09/2010 10:35

I agree with Fennel.... God can mean a variety of things, but not everyone believes in a Something for which God is a useful term IYSWIM.

SummerRain · 16/09/2010 10:36

Have skipped to the end as i'm in a rush to go out the door so apologies it this has been pointed out:

Can you not just suggest to her that the word 'God' can mean a multitude of things to differant people. To some it means a christian deity, to some a force of nature, to some a cosmic spirituality and to some it's just a word that other people use for comfort and hope. Tell her she should write the words but that the meaning she ascibes to 'God' can be anything she wants it to be.

HowsTheSerenity · 16/09/2010 10:42

There is a Serenity?
Oops did I name change (a few months ago) to a name similiar to someone elses? I will change again. Probably is time anyway. Sorry original Serenity.

BlueHair · 16/09/2010 10:49

Apologies for the numerous typos in my previous post - note to self proof read before posting!

serenity · 16/09/2010 10:52

No worries HowstheSerenity, I've seen you around and if had really bothered me I would have said something I don't post enough for it to get that confusing!

Original poster

QueenOfFlamingEverything · 16/09/2010 11:04

Just to make clear I do not have any issue with her learning about god/s, or writing the word god.

I just think its a bit pointless to make a child directly address their written work to god, when the work could be perfectly well done without that bit at the beginning.

I don't really want to go down the 'god can mean anything to anyone' route, its a bit woolly (for want of a better word). She's a smart child who knows what the teacher means when they want something addressed to god, she says she doesn't believe in a god, and she doesn't want to thank a god for her lunch.

So as far as I am concerned, she can write a poem thanking the elements and people who she thinks are responsible for her lunch being on her plate, and then I will suggest she writes Dear God at the beginning. I will be explaining that it is what the teachers want her to do, and that she may not get such good marks if she doesn't do it, and that they are only words.

But if she really won't, then I am not going to make her. Its two words that have no bearing on the quality or content of the actual work she will have done.

OP posts:

Fennel · 16/09/2010 11:20

It is not "pointless", it's offensive. To impose a particular religious view on a child. Children have a right to freedom of belief, and a right not to have to conform to beliefs they are not comfortable with.

DP and I are atheists, both came from strong church backgrounds which most of our families are still in. So the term "god" does not mean "whatever we like" to us. It means something specific we have actively chosen to dissociate ourselves from.

My dds are at primary (luckily the village school here is a community school, but that's just chance, we are very keen on them going to local schools so they could easily have ended up in a CofE school). They are not all sure what they believe, and I am happy for them to explore their feelings and various belief systems, but I object strongly to them being forced to agree to any belief system until they are ready.

Original poster

QueenOfFlamingEverything · 16/09/2010 17:47

She has written (entirely unprompted) " Dear mother earth, thank you for the food you grow. Thank you sun and rain for growing the food and the plants it grows on. Amen."

OP posts:

Fennel · 16/09/2010 17:51

I think that's a good compromise.

PixieOnaLeaf · 16/09/2010 17:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

mrz · 16/09/2010 19:10

I think it is a great prayer

colditz · 16/09/2010 19:17

That's a good compromise.

And "Dear God" means nothing to me. I do not have anything in my life that could be even loosely described by the word 'God'.

I am quite shocked at the abject peace seeking attempts at doublethink on this thread!

RamonaThePest · 16/09/2010 20:17

One definition in the bible is "God is love". Hopefully we all have some of that in our lives - our love for each other, our love for our children, our parents love for us, our love for our neighbourhood/country/world, even the love we extend to each other by helping strangers on Mumsnet.

kim147 · 16/09/2010 23:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

jicky · 16/09/2010 23:46

Do you think she might have misunderstood the teacher? The dear god might have been written as a suggested starting point, and the more able pupils will do their own thing anyway.

My dc are at a church school and even during the church inspection (which as a parent helper I saw some of) the children are not forced to say / write things they don't believe.

Also unless your school is very different to ours I'm not sure you need to worry about the loosing marks. Marks for what? As far as I can tell it is has the homework been done, and is it written / spelt as well as the pupil is able. Her little prayer with an extra unasked for drawing would get her a gold star in our year 2.

angelberry · 17/09/2010 00:02

As a teacher (and a catholic) I'd say it's perfectly acceptable to hand in the prayer without the words 'Dear God'.

As others have said, t was probably just a writing prompt. I'd get her to star it with 'I am thankful for...' and send in a polite, friendly note, something like:

"DD enjoyed considering what she was thankful for, and writing the prayer, but has chosen not to include the words 'Dear God' as this does not fit in with her personal beliefs. Hope this is acceptable. Please feel free to ring me and discuss. Many Thanks!"

Make it light. No decent teacher would object!

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