Is checking contents of childrens bottles and confiscating them if not water only illegal?

[devonvalley]

New head has instructed staff to do above!!
They get returned 2 hrs later a t lunch, so my son who is working towards water only,has a drink at 8am then not til 1pm ! the idea behind preventing dehydration is to increase a childs fluid intake to enhance concentration levels in school and a dash of good squash or flavoured water which a lot of parents would /are using will be confiscated !!(hs sugar free additive free, natural flavouring dash of squash to take rawness off for time being) all rest of family drink water, but son has food issues,and refuses to drink water on its own.we keep trying,others did convert a t there own pace!(children should be treated as individuals at school are they not??) If it was coke i could understand!
We have to give written consent to many things in school time, this needs our permission does it not?checking, confiscating. We fought two wars in this country to deny dictorial leadership??

Spiritmum the way in which nurture is involved in the difference between your children lies in your expectations and reaction (not a criticism just an explanation) Most of us value independence in our children and we also value choice highly in our society, so when children express choices (from a very young age) we are pleased, and respond as we can. Your fussy DD (and my fussy DS) expressed choice around food - and we responded - so more choice and more opinions.

So 'fussy' eaters have a predisposition to be fussy around food (nature) but this can be dealt with (as it is in other cultures) by not offering food as an arena of choice (like it or lump it as my mother used to say)

It could be that we could try to override this now, and it might be successful, just saying that nurture and nature interact.

One or two people have mentioned it but I would like to emphasise that the problem with any kind of squash/ flavoured water is the mess it makes when spilt in the classroom ( lunch hall and tables much easier to clean) , and in my experience sweetened drinks also attract wasps! For most schools I expect it really is the spillage issue that is hard to deal with and why they require water.

My dd won't eat fruit, in spite of lots of work by us. They are offered fruit every day at school. Dd doesn't eat it, but I would never, ever expect her to be offered something else.

Fruit and water are on offer, so if she doesn't want those choices, then it's just bad luck I'm afraid.

OP, you are making a ridiculous fuss about this. Yours ds is not going to be damaged by either drinking water, or going a few hours without a drink.

Exactly talkingnonsense. Unfortumately the human rights lots refuse to listen to these very sensible reasons.

Incidentally, many, many primary schools have banned teachers from taking hot drinks into the classroom for spillage/safety reasons.

From the intensely educational experience that is Mumsnet, I have learnt that many of the children with genuine food issues (as opposed to little fusspots like mine) are actually on the autistic spectrum. Sensory issues is very common with these children. It doesn't mean that their parents need to be beating themselves up.

But otoh it does not mean that a brisk robust approach is not perfectly adequate for the majority of children. Again, even if a minority will become constipated or unable to concentrate if they have to go for a couple of hours without drinking, most children can and did use to cope.

Mess and wasps are very good reasons for not allowing sugary drinks except for exceptional cases.

That's interesting, Cory. My dd2 is very sensitive to noise, she puts her fingers in her ears and used to be very difficult in public as it transferred to any experience that caused an excited reaction of some kind.

She's eased off a great deal although will put her fingers in her ears and yell when a Tv programme she doesn't like comes on or during loud noises. No sign of her being autistic as such but she is very bright and very quirky.

I certainly felt that as a youngster she couldn't deal with sensory overload, if that is the right term.

I agree totally with what cory has said.

food issues are not the same as food fussiness.

OP, if your child really does have food issues, you need to raise this with the school.

eg, my dd1 has food issues (really, honeslty, major ones). one of her biggest is to do with drinking, and yes, she was offered only water as a baby and toddler (aside from milk, of course!)

when she was 12 months old, her first drinking strike occurred. for 4 weeks, she did not drink a single drop of fluid. I stayed firm, offered her just her usual drinks - water or milk. for 4 weeks. in a heatwave (I made sure she was getting plenty of liquid foods, soups etc, so she didn't dehydrate, thankfully).

she slowly began drinking again after the 4 weeks, but noithing like before.

when she was 2.6, she stopped again. she hadn't really ever recovered to drinking a normal amount, and this time she stopped for 9 months.

It was a nightmare.

It has affected ehr (and our) whole way of life.

It took us about 2 years after she started drinking agin to get her to drink more than a sip a day. and htis was with offereing just about any bloody thing she damn well fancied.

we worked for years to get her to drink pure juice. and then we worked on reducing the amount fo juice.

she is now 6, and yesterday she probably drank about 100ml all day. the day before was a good day, and she drank about 350ml.

if the school's policy is going to cause your ds serious issues, then tackle it head on. but do it nicely. explain his issues.

and if the school still don't listen, try to get a gp letter or similar stating it is necessary.

honestly, this healthy eating/drinking thing is all very well, but sometimes it can cause real harm.

dd1 stopped eating lunch at school because a cup of water was put down at her place by mistake. it took her over a year to build up to eating there again. so that was no food or drink all day.

bloody marvellous.

OP I have to say that I agree with you 100%.

My DD drinks water, so I have no issues with this per se, but with the principle that dictates what I, the parent, should or should not feed my child. It's preposterous.

I disagree with posters that said these are the rules and so you have to obey. We live in a democracy and we have a right to question rules that have been imposed on us.

Funny how you can't give your child squash but then there's a pudding served with every school meal. AND children are not allowed to bring toothbrushes after lunch as this is seen as "too much of a hassle".

So it's ok to serve kids puddings for lunch and no brushing teeth afterwards, but not ok to send squash. Give me a break!

It's hardly the case of choosing not to send your child to school - you are hardly going to deny a child their right to education because of a silly rule. But it still makes the rule silly in my eyes.

Havent read all the thread.
But agree with OP, with any squash better than nothing.
btw my DD aged 8 - so quite sensible re spills etc.
Returned home with water bottle full this week. And informed me that she hadnt drunk any as they are kept at side of classroom so children dont keep drinking from them !!!
And I have to send extra water with her packed lunch because her first bottle not available lunch time. She loves water btw.
We managed with jugs and cups, when i was at school helps childrens social skills I think.
But hey we all know most teachers are paid to folow ofsted rules nooooooooo common sense!
Sorry teachers fed up realised its me who will be teaching all the times-table ks 2 :(((

So emy, if it is a democracy, why do teachers not get to decide whether they spend their time cleaning up sticky messes or not?

The problem with drink sent in in bottles is that it is not just consumed in the dining hall, over wipe down tables with staff specially employed to clear up the mess. Once you allow drinks bottles into classrooms it becomes a totally different issue. It takes up the teacher's time, books get ruined, tempers flare, it's a wasp magnet.

I think a school can decide what they want on their premises, in precisely the same way as I make the rules for children who come round to play at my house- this is not infringing their democratic rights! A healthy child will be able to cope with the fact that in Mrs Cory's house drinks have to be consumed in the kitchen and shoes are taken off at the door quite regardless of what they are allowed at home. Yes, you could say it infringes on the parents' rights to decide- but as long as they don't offer to come round and do the cleaning I make the rules that will make my life easier. And I fully accept that when they are at school, the teachers will make rules to make their lives easier.

Emy72, brushing teeth twice a day is sufficient. Absolutely no need to brush teeth after eating every meal. In fact, as the teeth are 'soft' after eating brushing could cause more damage to enamel if you were to brush immediately.

How old is your child? Does he drink milk?

We have the same policy at the school I work at. I work in a Y1 class.

To remain hydrated only a sip is required now and then anyway, and even non water drinkers can normally manage a sip or two of water if they are truely thirsty.

Juice is a nightmare. It is so sticky when spilt - and it does get spilt, even in sports bottled. I have to wipe up spilt water all the time, so juice would make this far worse.

Also if you open up the juice element where do you stop. If juice is ok - is squash ok? If squash is ok, why not a Fruitshoot type drink? And then what about other pops?

Yes, I have tea or coffee at school in my break time. however this is in the staff room. It is not in the classroom or playground- because of the risk of spilling it, as well as te risk of a child getting burnt.

Our children ae allowed juice at lunchtime in their packed lunches.

The infant children also got milk every day at snack time at a very reduced price, if parents choice to buy it. This is drank at snack time either just before or after break time, mid morning.

Cory - fair enough if they say it's because the floors get messy - but not if they say that it's to promote my child health and well being.

I think I am of the school of thought that I have to understand and agree the logic of a rule, rather than obeying it without question.

I think that was the democracy point I was trying to make.

It's not exactly like coming to your house, is it, as you do not offer a public service, paid for buy the taxpayer.

A school is a public place, which offers public benefit, so I should be able to at least understand the idea behind their rules, and it should all be done for mutual benefit, as it is in principle, a partnership with the parents, isn't it?

If your child has true food issues and a genuine need to drink smething other than milk or water at school then you need to speak to the head teacher or SENCO to discuss alernatives.

Where there are medical needs allowances are always made.

For example there is a diabetic child in my class. If his bloods are low we give him juice and a biscuit, as proovided by his parents. The other children know this and do not expect the same.

So if he does have genuine needs the school can generally wor with you.

hulababy,

it really does depend on whether the Op's ds has food issues or not.

dd1 could not, in any way, shape, or form, have managed a couple of sips of water, no matter how thirsty she was. in fact, event he expectation that she do so lead to wider issues for her (stopping eating her lunch)

she had to be allowed juice. this was kept separately, and she had to ask for it.

yes, I know that was a huge pain. but it was that or not drink. at all. even in the hottest of hot summers.

I don't think it opens up other issues either.

If it had been only fruitshoots that dd1 would drink, then that is what I would have given her . I would have worked with the school as far as possible, to ensure that it seemed fair to other children (putting themin a different bottle, for eg).

butif that hadn't been possible, then it would be up to the school to explain that to the other children.

in fact, when dd1 started drinking again, she would only drink one type of juice, form a small carton. it had to be in the carton. and her pre-school did a brilliant job of managing this with other children, who were offered milk or water at snack time. children accpet differences, if nicely explained.

dd2 came out of school yesterday and proudly announced she'd had a lollipop for pudding. teacher explained it was an ice-pop (must have seen my look ), and apparently the other children were a bit jealous.

they had had yoghurt for pudding, and dd2 is dairy intolerant, so school had given her an ice-pop.

sometimes, differences have to be accommodated, and letting children know that differences are ok is a good thing, and letting one boy have dilute juice/squash/fruitshoots does not mean the rest of the class will automatically hold a protest for their rights.

x-posts with your most recent one, hula

silverfrog - your situation sounds awful but to me the OP comes across as just wanting the rules to suit her.

How on earth is a school supposed to function if some parents think their needs are so much more important than everyone else's on every tiny element. I don't supppose anyone agrees with every school rule but you just have to get on with things. Think about the message you're sending to your child - he isn't above the rules and it's not going to do him any good in later live to think he is.

I do agree with hula. Re the scratty uniform, we've got two of our dc to be allowed to wear cotton jumpers instead of acrylic because of their excema - our GP wrote to the head. If you ask nicely teachers will listen, and all schools have policies which do not allow them to discriminate against SN.

Maybe the school will work with you in reducing down his squash in his bottle.

haven't read whole thread. I know it's not particularly honest but could you solve the whole problem by buying ds a clear squash? Then no one would know unless they tasted it?!

Hi all, been out all morning and returned am pleased about all the response so far. All these individual responses make all of us individuals including children!
The main issues are -searching bottles possessions without permission-even parents today at school are outraged that although there children drink water/flavoured water (apparently big four supermarkets have said huge increase in still flavoured water week before school term starts-so policy not that effective!) that they are doing this!!
my son like all members of the family will eventually drink it on his own-but with food issues this dash of squash if not allowed then his anxiety will be at school and at home around food and drink.(did not get a chance to say re food issues to head as could not get word in edgeways!)Milk is allowed up to year 3 then not??and then head backtracked and said water only!! milk should be alternative throughout school, those solid coloured cubes ideal for this!all drinks and snack boxesare stored in trays til snack time- i do not need him to take itto the table he can have his equivalent of 150ml drink and go back to table relaxed and refreshed! those who love water now fine but he is getting there, outside classroom is a water fountain i got him and as a novelty factor he takes a couple of swigs, but when mention to head this was not good enough!!! so all you doub
t ers we are working hard!!-I object to the- everyone is the same style-eg you will all have water-because i say so, and if you do not comply you will be searched kind of attitude.You will enjoy it-as schools need to comply with targets, and all children must obey!! rules for rules sake .I should have kept quiet and do as others do use flavoured water-honesty is it always best?

I'm not so sure, vbusymum1.
OP does mention her ds has food issues, and I was just explaining how serious real food issues can be.

It is really frustrating when posters come out with "oh, just offer water, if they are thirsty they will drink" when there are serious issues present.

Op says she is working towards plain water. I know how painful this prcess can be. dd1 did take a couple of sips of water over the summer, and things are moving in the right direction.

but for now, i would rather she drank maybe 300ml of diluted juice each day, rather than one or two sips.

I'd like to know what the sugar and additive free squash is.

Oh yes in particularly thanks brasshead -where did you get info from re:legality andSharon thanks for your support.

Homemade lemon squash!or supermarket no added if desparate.