I think I am racist, no I am racist

[Changebagsandgladrags]

So today was DS's 4th day at school. I've tried to make an effort with the parents by saying hello, they reply and then turn around and start talking in another language.

The parents seem split into two groups: the polish group and the asian group, both non-english speaking. I've seen another man who speaks english but his DS isn't in my DS's class. I've spoken to him. Apart from that there's just one other asian man who speaks to me in english although he speaks to the other ladies in another language.

I get quite scared that I'll never get to know any of the parents in my DS's class if I can't speak to them and I'm feeling a bit isolated. I'd be prepared to feel isolated in another country perhaps, but not in my own.

Added to that when I took DS in today all the polish kids sat on one table speaking to each other in polish. So it's like the class is split.

But running through the heart of all this is that I've found out I must be quite racist to think the things I'm thinking.

It might not be politically correct but I'm not sure it is racist per se. You seem to be saying you feel excluded because everyone else speaks a different language in their groups which sounds like a fairly reasonable concern regardless of whether it is "your own country" or another.

This will be a controversial thread for sure but I hope you get some good advice on how to build bridges with the others. Perhaps you could ask for some advice from the PTA rep or the headteacher on building cohesion.

So is your DC one of only two white (english) children in the school? What made you choose this school for your child? Will your DS not suffer exclusion in the playground if no one else speaks his language? FWIW - I don't think you are being racist.

I don't think you're being racist, I think you feel intimidated. I'd probably feel the same way, FWIW. Have you tried starting a conversation with any of the other parents? Or do you think that they don't speak any english?

OK well I applied to there because it's our catchment area school and the only one he'd realisticly get into. I applied to others and put this down as my last choice so that he would at least get a place somewhere.

So part of this is prolly me not wanting him to be even in the school.

But I've taken the attitude that this is his school and we'll make the best of it. And part of that would be getting to know the other parents.

There were other english speaking children/parents when we went to the welcoming day, but they seem to have all found other schools over the summer.

on the radio the other day the polish were saying they just don't bother learning english as there are so many polish speakers here now. we have same at our school, it is a little annoying

I can't see it improving to be honest. Yes, the polish kids will learn english. But in the playground they'll be speaking polish. So I'm worried for DS.

And the parents, like nikkershaw says, why would they speak english to each other?

Some of the other parents will speak decent English, though. It just takes time to break into their circle, and I appreciate it's not easy.

if you were living in a non-English speaking country and there were other British mums at the school, you would probably gather together, and not notice the only French/German/Polish whatever mum.

The best way to make friends is to invite another child home or tea.

FWIW, I don't think you are being racist, you just feel left out.

I don't think you're being racist either, that must be a difficult and upsetting situation for you, it would be for me too.

My DD is at a school with 99% of pupils being British, but her best friend is not, and doesn't speak English at home, but it's not a problem as she is the only speaker of her language (Slovakian) at the school, and speaks English (with a Scottish twang!) perfectly well. When DD goes to her house, her parents speak English too, so DD can understand, it would be rude for them to do anything else.

Have you tried approaching them with a friendly smile to see if they will welcome you into the group?

Easier said than done I'm sure but it might help?

Or could you invite one of the children home for tea and go from there?

My DD made some good friends last year in reception with children who couldn't speak a word of English when they started school. By the time it was her birthday in July she invited quite a few Polish children to her party. The amount of English they have learned in one year is amazing, and they were quite happy to converse with everyone in English, so don't worry too much about children who don't speak English now never speaking English to your DS.

Oh, and the Polish families give very generous gifts when they go to birthday parties.

It's only day 4, so things will probably get better. Your child will make friends, and then you'll have to get to know the other parents (at least on a basic "can so-and-so come to tea") basis. I guess that most of the parents can speak English, probably very good English in many cases, but aren't making an effort to do so because they've got so much to catch up on with their friends.

I do feel for you though. DCs are very much in a minority as white English in their school, but I deliberately picked it because it's made up of a load of different minorities. There were some schools which were overwhelmingly dominated by one or two groups (mostly Caribbean British and Black African), and I steered away from them, because it's much easier to feel left out/bullied/paranoid in that situation.

You are not being racist. You are simply feeling excluded. FWIW your child won't feel excluded (which perhaps is the more important issue here). DS2's best friend is Polish and DS1 has lots of friends who are Chinese, Sri Lankan etc. Race, to little boys, is ime not an issue. Class friendships are more likely to be along the lines of who is into football and who is into cars

Maybe it would be worth asking the teacher for a take on this. It's wholly possible she/he has seen it all before.

Don't worry though, as other posters have suggested, as time goes by things will become more relaxed - I moved DC to another local school (end of last year) and at least 5 other families followed. There are very few minority groups at the school but there is still obvious segregation as the natural tendency is for those who have moved, who have all shared experiences, stand and talk together. I'm quite sure this is not intentional, just the way it is. Also, integration is happening as DC have made new friends and we are all getting to know on another So no, you are not being racist and I'm sure you will find firm friendships being made fairly soon.

My dd started a new school on Monday. Not one parent has spoken to be me either - it's early days, I'm going to volunteer for the PTA and with various events in the school....I expect it may take a while before I fit in the way I did at her old school.

Poor you! We had a similar situation at our primary school last year and have now moved our dc to private school. We were 1 of about 5 white families in reception at the start of the year but the sole survivors by July. During the entire year only 2 parents spoke to me and the others conversed in Urdu or whatever. Tuesday was day 1 at the new school and within 5 minuties of entering the playground I'd been welcomed by 2 parents and invited on a mum's night out! The new school is still ethnically diverse (approx 50% of dc class is non-white) but the parents all speak English which makes a huge difference.

I appreciate that private school isn't an option for many people. A problem I had was that when we sent out party invitations to the class most of the parents didn't understand what they said! Had we stayed another year I was going to get them translated to see if that made a difference. I'm sure things will improve over time but good luck!

I do not think you are racist either to be honest. It doesn't feel good to feel left out which is what I felt and still feel at my dd's school. I have concluded I will never fit in. It was very hard for my dd too when she just started. We are black and the majority is British. I am ignored totally sometimes. The attitude I absolutely hate is those who choose when it is okay to say hello to one. It is strictly on their on terms. 'If it suits me today,I'll say hello but if not you do not exist'. You say hello and smile but get no response. I try not to bother anymore now but not happy either.
I really need to stop so I don't take over your thread but I do know how you must feel and sympathise.

Don't think race comes into it - it's the same when English speaking parents do the same thing. This is worse because you can't understand anything they are saying and so can't try to join in.

It's so bad but I would feel the same as you and I've got relatives from different countries but they would never dream of speaking in their own language without a thought for me. It's just them being ignorant and lazy because they are okay and have parents to mix with without making an effort, the same as when English speaking parents do it. Hopefully if your dc makes friends they will notice more of what they are doing and make an effort not to go off in their own little world/group.

So made an extra special effort today. I got there early at picking up time. There was just me and another lady (asian). So anyway, she had another younger DC with her so I used this as an opportunity for conversation - how old etc etc. So we chatted for a couple of minutes.

Then another asian lady turned up and I said hello to her too. She said hello back and the two of them proceeded to talk across me in their own language I swear I nearly cried :(

I didn't even try talking to the polish ones after that.

I dont think you are being racist and I am a very anti racist type of gal.

I think you may be worrying a bit too much though. My DC's schools are very very mixed with many children starting with no English at all. We live in the sort of area where new immigrants arrive and move on when they get more settled and affluent.

I have also worked in schools in the area and the children all speak English in the playground and in the classroom. They dont seem to have the same need to speak in their home langauge as adults do.

It is hard if you want to make friends and the other parents dont speak English.

I find that hard myself I get very shy when speaking to people with English as a second language (socially).

I dont think its always about these people being cold or hostile btw. Its very tiring using a language you are not used to. Its hard to 'chat' and such a relief when you can relax and talk in your first language.

I have experience of this because I used to spend whole days signing. I was fairly fluent at the time but boy was I knackered at the end of the day!

Aw Changebagsandgladrags that sounds painfully awkward - well done you for making an effort - even if it didn't work out, at least you know you tried!

Is your DC on the waiting list for the nicer schools in the area?

{un-mumsnetty hug, as situation sounds really hard)

firstmrsDeVere - I've heard the polish in the playground and they definitely are not speaking english.

He is on a couple of waiting lists, yes. I called the schools yesterday after getting back from school feeling pretty crap. School 1 said she didn't know how to work the system and to call back when she'd worked it out and the other said they don't use numbered places on the list now that the children have started

If it makes you feel any better, it can happen among English speakers.

Well done for trying (and keep trying - you'll gradually get to know people).

I think the firstMrsdevere is right - it is tiring using a second language. (I've done it myself, and you often feel like you're making a complete fool of yourself.)

leeloo - the other schools arent 'nicer' surely they just have a different make-up.

Changebags - we have a very mixed school and yes some groups are very cliquey but there is also a white British clique who all dress in a very showy way and wont talk to people like me either so its not all to do with race and language. Sometimes you just dont make the friends at the school gate that you think you will.

Put you ds down for Beavers at the first opportunity - you will both meet local, English-speaking people there.

Fwiw - the dc at my ds' school all get on no matter what language they speak at home so dont worry on that score. But send ds in with playground toys - bakugan and so on.

Don't worry - the English kids around here are learning Polish in the playground. Children are very adaptable.