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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Tuition at 4....to get into private primary school?

37 replies

WreckOfTheHesperus · 06/09/2010 15:52

We are considering sending DD to a private primary school; they are all massively competitive / over-subscribed near us, and I read something in a magazine article recently about kids being tutored for the assessment days that they hold age 4.

Can't imagine such a young child being tutored (bit of a scary thought), but wanted to find out if anyone else's DC had done it, and whether it had helped them to get a place?

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ladysybil · 06/09/2010 15:54

when my ds was in reception, i was shocked to find out several kids in his class were going to a tutor. this was in a state school, but competition for grammars is so tough, that parents start early.

seeker · 06/09/2010 15:57

I can't help because there is no way on God's Earth I would send my child to a "massively competitive" school at the age of 4. Please rethink - please.

tattycoram · 06/09/2010 16:03

I honestly can't imagine what sort of tutoring you could do for a child that age - I mean they are either what the school is looking for or not.

There is no way I would put a four year old into that sort of environment to be honest, there must be alternatives

Original poster

WreckOfTheHesperus · 06/09/2010 16:04

Seeker, to clarify I don't mean that the schools are massively competitive, just that competition for places is.

Ladysybil, that is shocking. I'm talking about getting practice for assessment days before primary, rather than after they are already in school.

As I said, sounds like a terrifying notion, but just want to find ot if everyone else is doing it!

OP posts:

lovecheese · 06/09/2010 16:04

pagwatch · 06/09/2010 16:06

tutoring would be a really stupid idea.

DD is at an academic independent prep. Any sign of 'coaching' children for initial meet/assessment would throw a big red flag and make them vary wary of over coached over pushy parents.
The assessment is not something that can be coached for. It is not based on knowing letters or colours etc. DD had none of that when she started as i am idle she wasn't interested.
Equally I would imagine tutoring at 4 would be a great way to make a child loathe education.

I suspect the arictle you read was like the ones about children aged 3 having Japanese lessons at their local cupcake bakery and reiki centre - a great item in a paper but actually only true or one or two nobs

pagwatch · 06/09/2010 16:08

wreck
to be specific. DDs school is top 30 or so and I knew all the parents in her class really well. none of them had tutoring which means either no one does it or it doesn't work.

And if you do get a child in via tutoring ( although at how) if they struggle in a years time they will just be encouraged to look elsewhere. Not a great idea

Original poster

WreckOfTheHesperus · 06/09/2010 16:10

Pagwatch, that's instinctively what I feel too. I don't know of anyone in real life that's done it, but did wonder if any of the culprits were hanging around on Mumsnet...

OP posts:

pagwatch · 06/09/2010 16:18

honestly wreck. I bet it is a handful of batty types and the magazine article picked up on it.
It just wouldn't work.

If you want your child to have a good chance at assessmentthe only thing you can do is to try and ensure that they are aware of what will happen on the day and that it will just be having a play with some nice people who will talk to them, play with them and maybe ask them some questions.

Even then teachers have confirmed that they expect some to be shy, some to be a bit anxious and that this is not a negative - the last thing the school want is a whole classful of girls who all want to shout out the answers

As she said too - we do know a bit about children this age and the very very rare time the child struggles comforts us that we mostly get it right.

Equally - if your child is tutored to get into a school where they may struggle you are not really getting your child their best education.
My attitude has been to never tutor or prep for any of the testing ( including at 7 entry and 11 entry) because either my children fitted in that enviroment easily or it was not right for them.

Original poster

WreckOfTheHesperus · 06/09/2010 16:32

All highly sensible; thanks Pagwatch.

Did you actually tell your children what the assessments were about? I was planning on telling DD something more anodyne, although not sure what...

OP posts:

pagwatch · 06/09/2010 16:36

DS1 knew at 11 - not least because he had asked to move.

Before that no, I didn't suggest in any way that it was a 'test' or anything like it. I just said we wanted to see what the schools were like and they wanted to met the DCs. I made it sound like a visit, an open day plus sort of thing.

That way they would not have any sense of 'failing' - however faintly. One of the schools did it as a party which made it way easier.

Mind you DD was hilarious because she then kept saying 'but mummy they were all so nice. I don't know which one to chose.'

I think it is actually worth visiting a few if that is an option. It dilutes the childs awareness and makes them even more chilled. Sorry - it did at least for DD.

Original poster

WreckOfTheHesperus · 06/09/2010 16:49

That's a healthy approach; the very last thing I want is for DD to feel pressurised about any of this sort of stuff at such a tender age...

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MrsCurly · 06/09/2010 17:16

there was someone on here who admitted to this, if i remember correctly. I think it was for NLCS or Haberdashers....

MrsCurly · 06/09/2010 17:17

i love your name btw. It reminds me of Lydia The Tattooed Lady...

follygirl · 06/09/2010 18:11

My dd's school is also top 30 and there is no way that I coached her for the assessment. As we were late and missed the group assessments. she had an hour chat with the head of pre-prep. I told her that a nice lady wanted to meet her and get to know her, that was all.
I certainly did not coach her, in fact she didn't know her letters and certainly didn't know her sounds so was by no means advanced for her age. I regarded the whole process as ensuring that she would get into the school on her natural ability. If I had to coach her to get in, would I then have to coach her throughout school? That would be crazy. My dd has just started Y2 and does a bit of reading and that's it. Most afternoons she chills out and plays, but then that's what being a 6 year old is all about in my opinion.

squeaver · 06/09/2010 18:19

The reality is that some people do get tutors for 4+ assessment. But, everything I have heard,and been told by teachers, tells me that it is a complete waste of time.

Everything Pag has said is spot-on and I'll add a story I have told before on here about the assessments for a certain girls school in N London.

An ex-teacher (let's call her "Mabel"), thought it would be a good wheeze to start tutoring and made a fair bit of money doing so. The school cottoned onto this. So, at an assessment - after the parents had left and all the girls were in a room together - the head says "Now who in this room knows Mabel?" and half of the little hands in the room went up....

So, probably not to your advantage at all.

vanitypear · 06/09/2010 18:37

I wouldn't tutor and don't know anyone who did (or admitted to it). But from my experience, if your daughter enjoys pre-reading practice like learning letters (even watching CBeebies' fun with phonics), plus writing name, learning to count, recognising shapes, etc - how can it hurt? Don't most nurseries do this stuff anyway? Ours did and it never struck me as particularly pushy or academic (unlike its local rival that sends 4yo home with reading homework )

dilemma456 · 06/09/2010 23:43

DD's school is also apparantly in the top 30 for preps (don't know how they work these figures out though its a great school) She went in at 2 1/2 and being so laid back I hadn't even realised there'd be an assessment so got a bit of a shock when I went along on the open day and they suggested doing it while I looked round the school.

No idea what happened in the assessment but she got in. To be honest they do expect quite high standards with children working at least a year ahead of national curriculum (she's gone into reception today reading at basic level, doing simple addition/subtraction and some writing ) and I wouldn't want her there if she wasn't up to it but she loves it. If I'd had her tutored and she wasn't really up to it it would be showing by now

loopyloops · 06/09/2010 23:49

why why why why why?????

(why private at 4, but that's a different thread)

WHY?

Original poster

WreckOfTheHesperus · 07/09/2010 09:41

Follygirl, think that you're right - I need to chill out.

Squeaver, love the Mabel story.

Blimey, dilemma, did you teach her all that stuff yourself, or did she do it at nursery?

Vanitypear, homework at 4

Loopyloops; we're thinking private because of access to after school care / homework clubs, as DP and I both work full-time, and because the nearest state option doesn't look good.

OP posts:

pagwatch · 07/09/2010 09:48

(dilema

ditto. Have no idea really what the figure are about..

I know it is ranked highly( although often up or down half a dozen places depending on who you talk to) but it is just an attempt to avoid the suspicion that my opinions are based on DD attending a really crappy school and for the 'good' schools you should tutor. IYSWIM)

BongoWinslow · 07/09/2010 09:53

I agree with everything Pagwatch said. Don't tutor!

hatsybatsy · 07/09/2010 10:40

dc at selective prep. we did no preparation at all - what's the point?

only one mother has admitted to tutoring (and her child did get in)-but i imagine there are others, and there is one needed that promotes itself (quietly) as preparing the kids for the assessment.

oh - and the assessment was a fun session with a teacher, looking at books, doing jigsaws etc. am still that anyone really thinks they can prime a small child for that??

Quattrocento · 07/09/2010 10:49

My DCs both attended a 'massively selective' prep. They did the rounds of the massively selective preps - only actually three within a reasonable commuting distance and got into all three. They are not brainboxes and they were not tutored.

And indeed, I have no idea how one would begin to tutor for assessment days for 4 YOs (not to be confused with tutoring for grammar school for 11 YOs, which I think at least one poster has done)

All the assessment days consisted of, was someone taking them aside and talking to them, listening to their use of language and how they interact. They also watch them play with sand and cutting out shapes (I have to tell you that according to the Head, DD did the most amazing cutting out ROFL)

MarshaBrady · 07/09/2010 10:53

I don't think there is any way you can tutor for these things.

Some were playing in a room out of sight, one selection was a one on one set of questions. If a pillow is soft, a brick is...? Type stuff. All very secretive (except my friend got to stay so we know some of it).

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