head teachers sanctioning the disposal of children's workbooks

[bullethead]

There is no valid reason for this; so far on the TES forum, where I have put the question to head teachers about why they destroy the children's workbooks rather than give them out, none have come forward. The only replies I've had are from a TA who has to do it but disagrees with it, and a head who does not have a problem with letting the children take their books home.
Please ask your child's school's head why they weren't given the option of keeping their books if your child did not bring them home. Chances are you won't get a straight answer and they'll hope you forget about it.

FWIW I wrote and complained repeatedly when I knew it was happening.
I was in fact a Governor.
The head said it was her policy and the CofG backed her up.

I have a few of my books from when I was a kid.
Its interesting to look and compare.
I will never have DDs year 5 and 6 books.

I've worked in a few state and private schools (teacher). Only one (private) school collected, stored and disposed of the children's books. It was to eliminate complaints from parents about poor marking. I was shocked!

OK - after several e-mails finally I have received about half of my children's work from last school year. There has been no general return of work to families, although the school had promised this in a newsletter. I have very definitely been treated as if I'm being difficult/ outrageous to want this kind of thing back. (By the way the school said in a newsletter last school year all workbooks would be returned by October half-term - so that's where I got the impression workbooks would be returned).

In one of the e-mail exchanges with the school the Head Teacher outlined how I needed to understand my children's work is the school's property.

Anyone have an opinion on that out there?

I preface this with we are at a state maintained school - so ....

Call me mad but if taxpayers have paid for the pens, books, whiteboards, furniture, decor & teacher's time - I really am slightly perplexed why childrens' work isn't their own. It seems to me that sending childrens' work home closes the circle: e.g. taxpayers pay teachers to teach our children and sending evidence home that that is going on reassures families and by extension (their freinds, grandparents, relatives, etc...) that learning is going on in institutions we all fund.

It's about the need to be physically documenting the process not just taking it on trust. Personally I would prefer some examples (worksheets not destined to be glued into the formal 'workbooks', etc...) to be winging its way home to me at something more like weekly intervals, rather than the following school year.

I do totally get that teachers may need to retain maths/ English/ etc... workbooks to document assessment to HT/ SMT or OFSTED and that retaining them between years might help in handing over one class to another - but (and this may just be my great age) am I the only parent who is a bit perplexed that aside from seeing homework assignments and holiday related artwork made for family in school, none of my children's day to day work at school comes home. At present, I just get about 5 - 10 minutes to view workbooks prior to a parent/ teacher meeting.

Thought I'd express my confusion at all this and ask what others may be thinking out there. I'm interested to hear what others feel about return of school work to children/ their families (either side of this - teachers or parents)....

Sigh. Taxpayers don't pay teachers, that's not how tax or the system works. You make some interesting points but when you start going on about taxpayers it rather invalidates them. Teachers pay taxes too and many of us are parents, we're not an alien breed.

Yep, agree with peppermintsticks - I agreed with everything you said, and then you totally lost my support with the taxpayer malarkey. Give over!

Was also in agreement until taxpayer comment.

The head is being an arse to say its school property. Sure, they need to hang onto it for a while but eventually it's not needed and could be handed over.

Oh and from a teacher's perspective I think all work should be handed over. I would love all parents to take an interest in the fantastic work my class produce. Unfortunately it has been known for us to find beautiful art work and published poems blowing up the road on the last day of term. Breaks my heart :(

I'm afraid most of our children's work doesn't even make it through the school gate before it is dumped/binned. It's sad to hear a parent ask a child "what am I meant to do with all that crap?"

I always wondered what is the real reason for the head teachers not wanting to return the workbooks home.

I think, the maths and literacy workbooks could be kept in the child's school bag all the time for the parents to see what is being taught on a daily basis, that would enable parents to support learning at home in line with the learning at school, rather than doing their own things at home. Would there be any problem for that?

Ours all come home at the end of summer term, although I suspect some samples are kept back for assessment/training/inspections.

To be completely honest, I don't actually want ALL of their books home. Leaves me with wounding what to DO with them without appearing like I don't care about my dcs and their work.

I'd never let on to the children though - and do hang on to maybe one writing book/particularly hard laboured topic book for example.

But they do so so so much work and there are so many books that I've already seen three times at open mornings, and I have three dcs. I look like w pack horse as I trudge back to the house with at least three carrier bags jam packed.

And of course I tell the dcs how proud I am of their work, at regular intervals.

Her dream...the main probl with that would be that out of 40 children, on any one day approx 17 would have the bloody books in their bags. Honestly, you wouldn't believe the number if book bags/reading books/reading records that don't come in. Also, books need to be in school after school for marking/moderation and assessment purposes. All in all not very practical. Maybe a greater number if parent 'book look' opportunities would be a starter?

herdream,

It would be an issue from the marking point of view, tbh. I mark books overnight for the next morning, as I do not have the time within the school day to mark all 32 books for each subject. Extended writing in English, or a detailed assessment piece can take me a couple of hours or more for a set of books (sounds a lot, but it still only means 4 or 5 minutes per book), though Maths is usually a little quicker.

In the course of an average day, I generally have around 35 minutes 'non contact' time at lunchtime, though there are often meetings during that time and I have to eat, go to the toilet as well as set up resources for the next block of lessons. Some days various commitments whittle that lunch break to 10 or 5 minutes - certainly not enough time to mark 32 books x 2 subjects in detail! In lessons, I am always with children, teaching - never any opportunity for marking during those.

When did you think that the books might be marked under your scheme?

I was just going to say that teacherwith2kids. I'm sat here now with a pile of English and Maths books marking.
The other issue is what happens when the child forgets or loses their school bag? I have a battle to get reading books returned once a week never mind daily. Sorry herdream but totally impractical.

Thank you very much for the replies. I do see the point, i.e. the difficulty in marking if the workbooks were taken home everyday.

My DD attends a foreign language course on Saturdays, where I have seen meticulous planning is in place. Children keep in their school bag; one textbook, two workbooks and two notebooks. The teachers give some marks on these books during the lessons or keep some of them until the following week for marking. There is a test every Saturday which the teacher keeps for marking and return to the children in the following week together with marked printed out homeworks. There is no communication issue between the teachers and parents.

Probably with a good planning, the children can take maths and literacy workbooks once a week or so? That will still update the parents on the child's progress.

But there is still the issue that at least half would not come back for the next lesson.

Yes, that is right, Feenie. It would be a shame if those who are willing to work hard were to miss out opportunities, because of those who are not willing.

Maybe make it an option to take the workbooks home or not?

They all want to take them home, that isn't the problem I'm afraid.

The people speaking ill of Stormy's Chair of Governors forget that school headteachers are employed and answerable to the Board of Governors, who as the governing body and ultimate appeal in a school are not the poodle either of the HT or of the LEA, to be removed if they become inconvenient to the staff.

Yes they should abide by their code of conduct but if they are having problems with a HT they appointed, then they need to have all the evidence they can get their hands on to act in the best interests of the school. Removing the CoG rather than the HT in some situations would be quite the worst thing that could be done for the CHILDREN, who are the ultimate point of a school; not the parents, not the LEA, not the teachers or HT.

My DC have been in a school where the HT most definitely needed to go (and did in the end, to Ofsted as an inspector ). I would have been very thankful for a CoG who was on the ball enough to get information straight from the horse's mouth rather than believing the horseshit coming from the HT.

Head teachers are employed by the LEA not the board of governors in fact head teachers are members of the board of governors

I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but our books are kept to go to the next teacher so that there is continuity of work. (This is since our days in special measures - book scrutiny) Ofsted inspectors sometimes ask to see older books to check progression. So last year our year 4's went home with books from when they were in year 2!

But I agree a lot of parents don't want them sent home! They do indeed say, "what am I supposed to do with all this crap?"! I have heard it myself

If someone does a particularly good piece of work we will sometimes photocopy it and send it home for the child to show their parents.

We do the carrying books on too, jamdonut.

We carry on books too but any full books are sent home

At the school I have recently stopped working at we ask kids to take books home and most can't be bothered. We have assessed work in a special folder and that specifically gets shown to parents at parents evenings tho they are welcome to look at books too. We pass folders on to new teacher at end of school year. Any parent is welcome at any time to look at books and our marking comments. Our marking is moderated and of course ofsteded. And we look at each other's marking too to ensure a high standard.
I don't think parents 'own' the books. The taxes we all pay (inc vat council tax etc) are put into a huge pot and redistributed by central govt to local govt and the LEA. Just as I can't opt out of paying towards the armed forces and can't demand my own personal police officer because I pay taxes.

Oh yes, just what children to grow up happy and healthy- a keen understanding of the balance sheet behind their education. Never mind keepsakes/memories, interested parents, etc.

Every time I read a thread like in which teachers are justifying decisions that re horrible for children I want to remove my child even further from mainstream education.