head teachers sanctioning the disposal of children's workbooks

[bullethead]

There is no valid reason for this; so far on the TES forum, where I have put the question to head teachers about why they destroy the children's workbooks rather than give them out, none have come forward. The only replies I've had are from a TA who has to do it but disagrees with it, and a head who does not have a problem with letting the children take their books home.
Please ask your child's school's head why they weren't given the option of keeping their books if your child did not bring them home. Chances are you won't get a straight answer and they'll hope you forget about it.

If only exercise books represented every record of what we do!

We have the opportunity to review work at parents evenings and even take it home then (to be returned the next day). At the end of the school year everything comes home in a carrier bag whether we want it or not. If it wasn't sent home I would be asking why.

I know the exercise books aren't everything but they are something and they are something that is being deliberately withheld and that is very intriguing. It may be nothing, it may be somthing why destroy them if it's nothing? That is a very interesting question. It would have been much easier for our teachers to dump everything in the parents arms on the last day of term but for some reason they have decided not to - that decision was unlikely to be made by accident - but why was it made and what are they trying to hide?

MollieO - that's great. It shows respect for the children's work, and shows mutual trust between the school and parents.

FallenMadonna- nobody's disputing that written work is one part of school life and that learning takes other forms as well. I'm not running teachers down here.

All I'm asking for is to keep the work which my child has done - not to criticise, but for sentimental reasons.

I can't see why a school would rather shred it than give it out. Unless it has something to hide.

onemorecup - that decision was not made by accident and needs to be confronted.

I suspect they have nothing to hide specifically - it's really about the fear of parents complaining and asking some pertinent questions which the head doesn't want to deal with.

Basically a head teacher should not have the power to make this decision without a proper explanation and debate.

it's a long time since i taught, so i am talking about events over 10 years ago now. but i was told by the acting head (as were all other teachers, there weren't really tas back then to sort those kinds of things) not to give books to parents because there had been too much fuss about something the previous year with parents complaining.
i felt really awkward because i taught reception and i knew parents wanted the books for sentimental reasons. i did feel caught in the middle and spoke to a colleague about it and together we gave out all the project work type stuff but not the actual exercise books, to comply with what we had been told.
no one complained to me about the work / my marking, just the people who wanted the exercise books too.
personally i do think that schools should be more transparent on these things, hopefully most are now, but equally, parents need to remember to treat teachers' work with more respect, unfortunately many don't.
it was a good school btw and i don't think we had anything to hide.

BulletHead - I think you're doing a good thing here, making people aware of this is important but it has also made me feel quite sad. My dd's teacher told me in October that one of stories was so good that it brought tears to her eyes - and I'm now wishing that I had that lovely story and it's upsetting to thing it has been shredded.
One interesting approach would be to get the kids to ask the teachers en masse, what happens to their exercise books at the end of the year? Would the teachers lie to them -or would they be honest about binning them?

My DC's school have a special book that goes with them through the school in which all the best work goes - exemplars of what they can do in each year. I love looking at it at paretns' evening and comparing where DS was in reception and where he is in year 4. That will come home when they leave school, so I suppose I am confident that I will have that keepsake and so am not fretting about that. We also get the project work back every year, and all display work. It's just the workbooks we don't get.

I always photocopy any special work a child produces (when they produce it) and send it home with a note saying how impressed I am which the head normally contributes to.

"people come in complaining about how we're jamming up THEIR bins rather than the schools and sending home rubbish"

:( I am really horrified that some parents take that attitude to their children's work!

FWIW, I totally agree with those who have said you don't need to look through a child's work to know how much they've learnt (I have twin DSDs, and there is massive difference between their writing ability and actual intelligence/knowledge).

But that's not the point is it? It's not just about evidence - surely it's about looking through their work together, being proud of the hard work they've done and showing it off to grandparents etc.

Thank you onemorecup for your comments. I hope the school haven't destroyed your child's work, perhaps you could leave a note at the school asap requesting that particular book or piece of work? It might just be that they haven't got around to doing anything with it yet. I think your idea of the children asking the head en masse is great (perhaps they could do it through the trendy 'student council' thing? All very legitimate!), but I do wonder how honest the head would be if the intention was not to send anything out. If they did admit what happens to it, it would be interesting for the children to ask them to give the reasons why.

It shouldn't need to get to this, if some schools weren't so cloak and dagger about it all; but in legal terms it would hang on the balance between physical and intellectual property. I don't think that is the true issue though. It's really about heads abusing their power. If staff are not happy about destroying the work they should also challenge the head together, rather than do what they say. Is it in their contracts?

I haven't come across a single teacher who doesn't want to share their delight at a good piece of work with me or other parents - so it's not their fault. I like the idea of a 'special book' fallenM,sounds like a lovely policy. There doesn't seem to be any real consistency in this matter though. mrz thanks for following this it's good to get a teacher's view.

algebrarocks - spot on. That's why I want the books!!!
So why can't the schools just give them out...

I have found out this year that the HT who came in in 2010 quietly instituted a policy of burning all school work books without the knowledge or consent of either the parents or governors. I am absolutely furious about it.

I only found out because my son, who was in year 3 at the time, had filled nearly 2 A4 workbooks with his creative writing stories. His teacher was so proud of his achievements - the spelling wasn't the best, nor the punctuation, but his imagination had come up with some amazing stories. When I asked about getting the books, as I didn't have time to read them in the half hour at the end of the year for 'parental review' I was told that it wasn't possible, because the books were kept for a year and then incinerated. The teacher was obviously upset by it, and confessed that she could possibly save one or two of my son's books, but not all of them as it was checked.

I've been trying to get an answer out of the Head since July as to the 'why' and 'by whose authority'. I am struggling to find the legalities of it, but in my mind, an exercise book belongs to the school while it's empty, but becomes the property of the child when they start writing in it. I've never given my permission for my son's work to be destroyed.

Either way, all I've been offered is flimflam, and politician-type-drivel. But, no books. Despite a formal request for them.

I had a 4 hour meeting with the Chair of Governors last night and he's horrified with the situation too, as the governors weren't aware of this situation either.

I'd be interested to find out what, 3 and a bit years on from the start of this thread, others parents experience with their school, and what they think?

I am struggling to find the legalities of it, but in my mind, an exercise book belongs to the school while it's empty, but becomes the property of the child when they start writing in it. I've never given my permission for my son's work to be destroyed.

Laws are not drawn up about children's school books. They simply don't matter enough. Are you serious? The legalities? This is ridiculous. And I think you are wrong about ownership. The school paid for the books. It is evidence of their teaching. The books belong to the school.

I had a 4 hour meeting with the Chair of Governors last night You must see that this is mad. This issue is not worth the emotional energy you are putting into it.

I agree that schools covering up marking is outrageous and its a shame (for about 5 minutes) that the kids don't get to show you their work but it really isn't as important as you are making out.

If you think your school is not performing its duties in relation to feedback then that's a different matter.

We don't give them out at the end of the year because we pass them up to the next teacher so they have a good idea of what is expected of the children. They are sent home at some point in the following year but never destroyed.

Ok Wellthen - I get that you're not that bothered.

To clarify, my meeting wasn't just about that issue - I'm the new chair of the PTA and we were discussing various issues regarding the school, and fundraising etc. But the nature of the Headteacher and her stonewalling not just me but the governors at every opportunity did figure large in the conversation.

In part, what annoys me is that she has told us how we are to talk to our children - to not call them 'clever' as that limits them, and to not concentrate on the final mark, but heavily praise them on the effort they put into their work. Which is fine until you realise that she's just going to burn it. The stories that my son wrote are his creations - others may place no value on their child's creativity but I do. My DS was so proud of some of his stories, but I will NEVER get to read any of them now, as despite formally requesting his books, they were destroyed.

And yes, the school pays for the books, and it's evidence of their teaching, but it's also evidence of the child's learning - and surely the child should have at least some ownership of their work?

The school always used to give the books back, until she arrived as the new head, which coincided with the year my son joined reception. The teaching staff are themselves upset by this policy but have to comply.

Anyway, I guess to others it's just a storm in a teacup.

How unbelievably unprofessional of the chair of governors to be discussing the Headteacher and her relationship with the governors, with a parent. If I were the Headteacher and heard abut this, I would be going straight to the local authority to demand the removal of the chair of governors for this appalling breach of confidentiality.

I love that it's ok for a head to unilaterally decide to destroy children's work!

Thankfully the head is leaving at Christmas. The Chair of Governors, and the Chair of the PTA discussed, many things. There are many exciting plans afoot for January, and we are looking at how we can build stronger working relationships - incredibly unprofessional, I know.

Amongst other things, we did discuss how much fundraising had gone down in the last 4 years as parents were treated with contempt. The PTA are seen as an extension of the school, and the way parents have been treated had a direct impact on how much they wanted to support us. For example, we went 3 months without a newsletter because she wouldn't let anyone else write one, but didn't have the time to write one herself; last years Christmas Carol concert wasn't advertised in case too many parents turned up, etc. The amount of staff who have left, or were planning to leave due to the attitude of the head teacher is widely known.

But, am glad to know it's amazingly professional to encourage children to work hard for a year, encourage them to do their utmost to improve on their work, and then show how much you value their work by burning it

I'm writing as a teacher and as a parent.

My children go to a school which keep books for one year and throw them away at the end of the next i.e. Y4 books are thrown away at the end of Y5. Art work and some topic work is sent home by teachers as and when it's finished with.

Knowing that the books were destined for the bin I contacted DD1's teacher in April/May requesting that I be given her books from the previous year. I asked if I needed to make a formal request to the Headteacher or if it would be easier for me to send DD1 in with an extra large bag one day so her books could 'fall' into her bag. I explained that I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in criticising the quality of work, of marking, of questioning the coverage of subjects or complaining about anything. I just wanted to keep the books for DD1 as my parents had done for me. DD1's teacher discussed it with the Headteacher and it was agreed that she would be given all her books. She was.

My own school dispose of books which makes me . The reason there is that the parent body are swift to complain and to involve the local press. The Headteacher does not want to create a situation whereby a parent who is unhappy about their child's exercise books goes to the press instead of to the school. I tend to photocopy the children's art work and published work, along with any other special pieces they are particularly proud of. 'Free-standing' originals go home with the children at the end of the year as do photocopies of any special pieces. It's not ideal but it's some sort of a compromise at least. I believe the Headteacher would let the books go home if a parent asked but would probably want to ensure that the parent understood the marking policy, how spelling mistakes are dealt with etc. so as not to shoot himself in the foot.

I think it's a bizarre thing to do as school policy. One of my last things every school year is 'here's your most recent book - if you want to keep it, help yourself. If not, please rip out the used pages & dump them in this box for recycling, & the rest of the book in this box for scrap paper.'

I keep a drawer full of 'scrap' exercise books & all my classes know that if you forget your book, just grab one out of the scrap drawer, then make sure you glue the work in your own book at the first opportunity.

I teach secondary, & we have a half-termly 'book check' by HOD to ensure we're doing a good job in terms of marking & feedback - one year group each half term.

In practice, each member of the Dept. takes it in turns to do the book check alongside HOD, so we're all involved.

This is just the routine exercise book marking - moderation of GCSE controlled assessments etc is quite a bit more involved!

Then there's an SLG book check each half term too, which consists of checking every member of the teaching staff - you get an email the night before to let you know that you need to send a particular set of books in following the lesson.

Should you be behind with marking for this group, & the kids have the books for homework so you can't do a quick mark prior to lesson, you are at this point destined to receive a Pained Email, & it's a black mark on your Performance Management.

My books are always sufficiently up to date to pass muster, which means sometimes I have to rush through them. I can mark a set of 30 books to 'book check' standards in an hour, whereas marking them 'properly' & in a manner genuinely helpful to the student takes at least twice as long.

So I have no fears of parents seeing my books because they don't 'look marked' & I don't imagine any of my colleagues would either.

Very odd! My dc's primary school sends them all home. I give each dc my phone & invite them to snap as much of their work as they want to preserve - as a folder on my PC - before the books go in the recycling.

and then show how much you value their work by burning it

It's the burning part I find extraordinary. That seems all Wicker Man and shit. Why would you engage in the symbolic task of burning children's exercise books? Putting in the recycling, yes. Putting in confidential waste for shredding, perhaps, if you were a bit of a loon. Buy why on earth would you go to the incredibly messy and unreliable effort of burning books? In bulk, paper burns badly, and without the (dangerous) use of an accelerant you'll be left with a load of charred pages. That's why burning (other than in a specially designed incinerator) isn't a reliable means of disposing og confidential documents, for example. Where and when does this strange task get done?

Regardless of my opinion on sending home or destroying children's books I am very concerned about your school Stormyhead. No matter how concerned a chair of governors is about the headteacher it is really not on to discuss it with the PTA! PTA and Governors are two separate bodied and if the chair cannot see the line and behaves in such an inappropriate manner it does not bode well for the next head. Governors have a legal oversight of schools and help with strategic vision and accountability and to be discussing this with you is totally out of order. Thank goodness I work at a school where our governors can manage to remember their remit instead of gossiping because if not I would be contacting the LA to have that governor removed or disciplined PDQ!

Some of us don't even get to see our kids work properly at parents evening unless you insist.But then we don't get levels,progress info or targets either unless you make a direct request.

The first time we insisted we had to collect and sit with them in a side room,the dep head made out we were exceptional and strange wanting to see them as "you don't get to see anything in secondary". Obviously they never take books home at the end of the year either.

When I pointed out my requests were far from abnormal as at every school I ever taught in they were readily and freely available on parents evening and to take home in the summer she reluctantly arranged a viewing.

What gets me is parents far less confident than us would be fobbed off.There is huge value in parents seeing work and kids taking books home.

Thankfully this year our teachers are pretty sensible and know what we like to see so have it ready before parents evening appointments for us to look through if necessary.Thank goodness we do though as I was horrified this year to see how little effort dd was putting in so we had quite a productive parents evening on the back of it.Having work at the end of the year informs parents of expectations,methods and standards expected.It's so useful.

I do think it is a really sad that schools destroy the books. At primary everything came home. Some art work and other bits came home at the end each term and all exercise books in July. If the school kept any books we were told why (Ofsted due etc) and I'm fairly certain they were sent home later.
The downside to this is that because we have six DC is that we have boxes and boxes of school stuff in the attic. I have tried to off load some to my now adult DC and they don't want to know! I am slowly working though each box and photographing/scanning some of the best bits. I am then burning it which I do find sad in a way. Some of the work is a pleasure to read but other bits remind me of the struggles my 3 dyslexic sons had and makes me want to cry. They are grown men now and have come through school and are doing really well. I am so proud of them but I do understand why they don't want to look back at school stuff.
Most of the 11 to 16 books that came home were eventually thrown away by the DC themselves. The boys loved having bonfires of old exercise books.
Most A level and university notes and text book are still in the family home but DS1 got all his stuff dumped in his garage when he move into a bigger property this summer.

HowManyDays - just to clarify. As a parent, I had been trying to get a decent response out of the head since July, and had either been ignored completely, or barely acknowledged but with no answers to my requests. This has been since July of this year. Through the due process of the school, the issue has eventually been escalated to the attention of the Chair of Governors who asked to meet me to discuss my concerns. I believe that is allowed?

At the same time, as the new Chair of the PTA, we utilised the fact that we were already meeting, to have a discussion of mutual interests in the school, and what we, the pta, might focus our fundraising efforts on. I had no idea that we shouldn't meet under those conditions, it just seemed like an opportune time to have that discussion.

Retropear - that's such a shame. At Parent consultations thus far, we have been able to see the maths and english books, whilst having a discussion with the teacher. This year, with the input of the new Deputy I believe as it hasn't happened before, we have been allowed to have a certain selection of books to have home for one evening prior to parent consultations. It still doesn't resolve the issue of not getting the books at the end of the year, but I'm hopeful that a new head won't keep the policy going. In the meantime the Acting Head (our new Deputy) came from a school where all books were sent home with kids at the end of the year, so really hope that I get something this year.

I know I won't want to keep everything, but I would like to have the choice in the matter - if the school are going to get rid of it anyway, why can't they just give parents the option to have them?