Piano practice: rewards or penalties?

[MagicDad]

My wife and I disagree. I think our children's pocket-money should be a set amount, contingent on their doing regular piano practice, and deductions made for not doing so.

She (of the "children respond better to positive encouragement" school) says we should pay them a portion of their pocket-money every time they practice.

I say: "Bollocks to that. They are already hugely privileged to have piano lessons as it is, they shouldn't have to be paid to practice."

She says: "You're proposing paying them them anyway. You're just taking it away when they don't, reinforcing a negative blah blah blah..."

Who's right?

You're both wrong

If you take away their pocket money for not practicing - what happens if they decide that's OK, a fair trade off? No pocket money for no practice?

If you pay them to practice they won't play the piano for enjoyment, they'll (eventually) play it just for the pocket money.

I don't know how old they are, or why (in particular) you think piano is a good idea for them - but what you have to do is convince them why they should practice, and then let them practice when they should.

If they choose not to practice, then maybe they are too young to get much out of playing an instrument....

If they hate to practice so much maybe it is not their thing.

I agree with Indigo inspire them to practice because they love music or else all that she has said will happen will happen. Movie theme tunes help or finding videos on youtube of people playing great paino music etc.

I completely agree with IndigoBell.

Do you sit with them when they do their practice ?

I'm with Indigo on this - if your children don't want to play piano, then why are you determined to either bribe them to do it or punish them for not doing it?

If they are old enough to respond to money as a bribe/threat then they are old enough to say if they just don't get on with piano-playing, and you could save the lesson money by stopping if they have no interest. Or take lessons yourself if that's why you are pushing them.

Interesting: thanks for the responses - and perhaps bribing/penalties is not the way to approach it after all.

The thing is, they're fine about practicing when they do it. But in busy, fun, kid lives it's easily overlooked.

(I suspect that those who say that it should simply be their choice have not, in fact, learnt the piano. It requires a degree of dedication and sacrifice that does not come naturally to most eight year-olds: unless he/she is a child prodigy, he will need to be pushed in the right direction.)

I do usually sit with them, or at least am around when they practice.

AMumInScotland: your suggestion that I am a frustrated pianist and taking it out on my kids is miles off the mark!

I never once had to bribe or talk my dd into practising her instrument. Seriously. However, I find it helps to have a set time where it is just understood now is when you do your music practice.

If their days are filled with activities etc it is difficult to always ensure a window for practice when they are also willing to d it and not too tired to concentrate. I find it best to do it first thing in the morning. Dd gets up, gets dresed, makes her bed and whilst I get breakfast ready, she practices. It works for us, she is fresh and willing and since it is just routine there is no big discussion about it.

Just to add some moral support!

My children also learn the piano - not with me, even though I teach it!
With my students I am calm and encouraging, but with my own children I seem to turn into something else! So, I have to leave them alone to practise as much as possible (always with half a listening ear in the background). My biggest incentive to get them practising, is to tell them that it isn't something they have to do, they can stop lessons if it's too much work - but they really want to play, so it does the trick! I really mean this, too - I don't want to force them to do something against their will, even though it is something I did and got to a high level, and now pays me a reasonable income!

For info, they are only 9 and 7. I do think it's important to let them have lots of fun too, so I do try to have a balance.

I agree with Indigo.

I think perhaps the best way would to have a set time when they do it every day. If it part of their routine they are less likely to find reasons not to do it.

I agree with Indigo. Its a bad as paying your children to do basic chores. My ds (6) plays an instrument and I've found the best thing is to have it set into a routine. For him its at bedtime, he puts his pjs on, does practice in his room, comes downstairs and has milk and watches tv. He only does 5min max but its everyday and it has become natural to him to do it at that time.

I completely agree that making it part of their routine is vital.

Pocket money makes it negotiable. I'm all for encouraging responsibilty and letting children decide what they want to do and accept the consequences of their behaviour but homework (and piano practice is homework from music lessons) doesn't fall into that category until they're about 16.

If it's well integrated into their day, they enjoy doing it and you're supportive and encouraging then there's no reason they shouldn't want to do it. If they still don't enjoy it then perhaps piano is not for them. I agree it takes a large amount of dedication but if you push them too much you risk turning out technically proficient but ultimately soul-less pianists. There's also the question of why you're having to push them so much. If they've bonded with the instrument it shouldn't require constant pushing (recognisng that we all have off days when we don't feel like practice!).

Bedtime practisers here too - the choice is either 'Instrument practice then bed, or bed straight away'. They always choose to practice first....

If you are confident that they do want to play piano in a general sense, but just don't get round to the practise, then I think the key is to have a regular time for it so it doesn't get left till the end of the day and forgotten about. I don't think that money should be involved, it should just be a regular part of the day, like homework or a bath or whatever else would be a long way down the "tempting things to do" list. DS violin practice always used to be before school to make sure it wasn't left till he was tired later and homework could push it out.

The "choice" shouldn't be about the practising, but about playing an instrument at all, or picking which instrument. If they say they want to do it, then making them stick at the practice is not about choice from one day to the next. I just get frustrated by parents on here who say they are determined their child should play X instrument, when the child shows no interest whatsoever, often because the parent "wishes I'd learned when I was a child"

FWIW, I'm a reasonably proficient thumper and I do regard learning music as an important part of education. I also think that piano is probably the best instrument to learn.

A regular slot in the day: that's a good idea which I haven't really tried. Breakfast time would be perfect.

Perhaps bribery/penalties can be put on hold to see if that approach works..

Out of interest why do you think piano is 'best' to learn?

I can see many arguments for and against it personally but although it's very traditional I'm not necessarily convinced it's best for every child.

Personally, at least as far as my dcs are concerned, I think the piano is best as a 2nd instrument, not a 1st. It's very solitary and is really only played for its own sake, for the sheet enjoyment of playing.

An instrumnet that can be played in a group, be it jazz band, pop band, orchestra is often more rewarding and better for encourgaing a sense of team spirit.

I would agree with you, MagicDad, that piano is the best instrument to learn because it gives you such a grounding in music & reading music (I came from learning piano to a subsequent 2 instruments & found it very easy to pick up because I had the "knowledge" from piano).

Agree a regular slot works. As a child I had to be pushed to do practice but once I got to 11 I really wanted to practice and it would be my after-school relaxation - come home, glass of milk & biscuit, then practice - got stress of school out of way and gave a break before homework.

At some point (hopefully!) they will want to practice. Find out what works best for them - privacy or a listening ear to correct where needed, perhaps experiment with different times of day for each child, and eventually you'll crack it.

FWIW, I am so, so glad that my parents made me learn from 5 - I wouldn't be without it.

I don't think DS would have stuck at music with piano as his first instrument, as orchestra work is his main love. That maybe depends on the child - some will find groups their main motivation, while others are happy playing solo. I guess the piano has the advantage of teaching you both clefs at once and seeing how two parts go together, which you don't get with most single instruments.

Gruber - do you not think whichever instrument you learned first, the subsequent ones would have been easier because you built on existing knowledge?

Sorry to hijack the thread but what is a good age to start children learning the piano? My friends have one and whenever we visit they always want to play with it. Or do you wait until they express an interest in learning a specific instrument?

As a child I loved music and started playing a lot of different instruments, but I didn't have the dedication to practise, nor was it set as part of my routine so I was never really proficient in any, much to my regret now!

I like the bedtime practisers idea!

If they don't want to learn to play the piano, don't make them. If they do want to learn, going to their lessons a few times not having practiced will be so frustrating for them that they will practice next time.

Oh and YOU might think they are hugely privileged to have lessons - they might think differently!

About 7 seems to be early enough

I suppose I think piano is "best" because I regard it as an excellent "foundation". You get to read traditional notation, learn chords and harmonies, dexterity and so on. Few other instruments offer this.

Also, I think the solitariness of it is an advantage: you can sound good on the piano on your own.

That's not to diss any other instruments, of course. Frankly, a child learning the kazoo is better than nothing.