Piano practice: rewards or penalties?

[MagicDad]

My wife and I disagree. I think our children's pocket-money should be a set amount, contingent on their doing regular piano practice, and deductions made for not doing so.

She (of the "children respond better to positive encouragement" school) says we should pay them a portion of their pocket-money every time they practice.

I say: "Bollocks to that. They are already hugely privileged to have piano lessons as it is, they shouldn't have to be paid to practice."

She says: "You're proposing paying them them anyway. You're just taking it away when they don't, reinforcing a negative blah blah blah..."

Who's right?

I agree, piano makes sense from a 'knowledge of music' perspective and also from the satisfaction that you can press a key and sound good.

The flipside is that some children find it solitary, too hard, unfulfilling and unresponsive. It doesn't suit every child.

I'm still undecided about whether piano is a good first instrument or not though. My DipABRSM supervisor and I had many discussions about it...

My DS is nearly 8 and practices every night after supper. Sometimes he moans that he doesn't want to, but I have explained to him that if he doesn't practice I won't pay for his lessons. As he really wants to play this usually works. Also his teacher can obviously tell if he hasn't practiced well that week, and tends to give him the same pieces to practice again (which annoys him).

I wouldn't use pocket money to "bribe" him to practice, I want him to play because he loves the instrument and wants to!

BTW he started lessons once he turned 7, which his teacher said was about the right age. She has been asking whether his just turned 6 year old brother will be starting too, but I don't feel at the moment he is mature enough to do all of the practising and theory homework etc.

AMuminScotland - no, I think that piano is best for several reasons (already mentioned)
1)piano teaches you both clefs, chords, fingering etc. 2)You have to understand at least the basics of theory, more so for piano than for say, flute.

If you played the violin first, for example, you have no concept of chords or any of the many things that crop up quite early on in piano lessons. Plus, if you play piano first, you can "play" your violin/clarinet/flute pieces on the piano to help you understand what they sound like - a valuable advantage, I think.

I agree with indigo, but plenty don't. Beetroot (not seen her about for ages - does she ever post any more?) always payed her dc to practice & they all seemed to go on to be very musical. It's the same with things like chores - do you give pocket money based on children making their bed/tidying their room/washing up or just expect them to do that as part of family life?

Both my dc had piano lessons, neither practised much to start, one got into it later and one didn't and stopped lessons. Neither regret their choice and I've never had to bully or cajole them to practise either. Interestingly the one that got into it also plays another instrument (cello), but now never practises that at home (still plays it in orchestras and ensembles though).

Arguing which the best instrument is is pointless - different instruments suit different personalities. On a thread just last week someone (who also played cello & piano) was saying that although they were better at piano they always preferred cello primarily for the group music opportunities, whereas ds is the opposite - he was always better at cello, but preferred piano (and is now better at it in consequence).

When to start? Mine started in year 3 and that seemed about right I think. If you start too early they tend to make quite slow progress which can put them off.

?Frankly, a child learning the kazoo is better than nothing.?

Why do you attach so much importance to learning an instrument? I have one musical child and one who isn?t, I can?t see any merit in forcing the one who isn?t to learn an instrument just because I might think it?s a good idea.

Not trying to be snarky, it?s a genuine question?

If they don't want to practice, stop the piano lessons. It's a no-brainer. A privilege is not a privilege if you don't want it - it's just something that socially aspirational parents have made you spend time doing.

The piano is not a toilet. One's acceptance into polite society is not dependent upon learning how to use one properly.

mattellie: I attach importance to learning an instrument because I think "being musical" is something that can be taught, like reading and maths. I will never be a great maths scholar, but the knowledge I do have of maths helps me in countless aspects of my life. Likewise, I think appreciation of music is probably increased hugely by the ability to play and read it. No, you can't make someone a musical genius; but you can tip the odds in favour of their having an enhanced understanding and liking of music, IMO.

colditz: see my answer above. Your suggestion that I only want my children to learn the piano out of "social aspiration" is presumptuous and a bit daft. And if we allowed 8 year-olds never to do the things they weren't keen on, then God help our future generations!

FWIW, lest there should be any confusion, I am not constantly nagging my kids to do their practice and it is not an ongoing household battle. I just wanted to explore ways that would encourage them to do it without being reminded.

"can tip the odds in favour of their having an enhanced understanding and liking of music, IMO."

You can also put them off for life!

Well, aside from social aspiration, what other importance does forcing a hobby upon a child have?

YOu need maths. You need it to budget, to understand your wages, to measure ingredients for food. Nobody needs music. It is a beautiful thing to those who find it beautiful - to the rest of the population it's background noise, and you can't force someone's brain to be set up in a more parentally pleasing way.

And I don't think that learning how to play "Fairy Bells" at the age of 8 makes any difference at all to someone's ability to appreciate Bach in late life. Honestly.

You wouldn't force a child to play cricket or football because it would hepl them appreciate watching sport, would you?

But if you DO want them to learn an instrument, let them choose.

MagicDad, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Frankly, am a bit surprise at the almost-aggressive responses you have had!

Having read this thread, am now also going to try having set time for piano practise for DD. Generally she doesn't mind practising, but if play has to be interrupted for it, she does!

My sister has just started paying her children to practise, mainly because she has 3 of them learning about 6 instruments between them, so she needs them to get started by themselves. They get £1 an hour, but can note down practice in increments of 5 minutes - so even if you just play for 5 minutes a day in 12 days you'll get a pound.

I don't pay mine, but I do frequently have the 'if you want to have lessons, you have to practise' conversation. They do really want to play, but as the OP says, in normal busy kid lives sometimes something else seems more appealing than scales.

MagicDad - more support here! Am amazed at the harsh response you have had.

DD1(almost 14) has played the violin for 3 years. She also did piano to begin with (age 8 to 12). She has always hated practising and usually needs to be "strongly reminded" to do it.

BUT as she has got older her motivation is increasing and her practising, although briefer than it should be, is very thorough and her teacher comments on how hard she has worked which makes her practice harder etc. There is a slow improvement and much more self motivation possibly as she is at a level now (Grade 5) where she is really enjoying playing. She loves orchestra and music tours and spends all her spare time playing in a "band" with 3 friends (albeit not necessarily on the violin but her experience has made her adaptable on other instruments).

If we had let her choose herself at an early age she would have given up and lost an enormous amount of what she loves now. Surely a parent is there to look to the long term for their child as a child is unable to do this for themself?

Also, DD's teacher (previously a top concert violinist and on ABRSM board) admitted to her recently that he didn't practice at all for the first few years until it hit him that he did actually want to improve!

It must ultimately be self motivation but not necessarily in the first few years.

Bit long - sorry!