AITA for calling my wife old, unable to move with the time and of a fixed mindset?

[GreenTreesAndRainbows]

DW and I argued this evening over our expectations for DS12. DS12 has been diagnosed with dyslexia and suspected dyspraxia (dcd). He is in year 7.

DS's homework is mostly read, cover, write, and check, for two different subjects every day.

Last term he had to handwrite most; he did so, with little complaint. This term, he has accessed the majority on a computer, along with the majority of his year group, as I understand it. I don't like the homework format, I don't think it works for DS and some of the teachers don't even bother checking his homework anyway. Even so, DS completes it every day. DW is, however, aware of my feelings towards the homework.

Since DS has been using his computer to complete his homework, he has been using an immersive reader sometimes and text-to-speech a lot.

DW is unimpressed and thinks that DS should be putting more effort into his writing and the presentation of his work.
DS writes slowly, his writing is barely legible and his hands' ache after writing for extended periods. Rather than focusing on letter formation, I prefer that DS put the effort into learning and retaining the information

Both DW and I work in a school for children who have SEN. DW says that the strategies and access arrangements we use with our students are irrelevant because DS goes to a mainstream school and is unlikely to go to an SEN school.
I explained the access arrangements that I think should be in place for DS to help him succeed, DW was shocked and seemed against the idea, "I'm just surprised that that's the route your taking for him already", "I just thought that we would try a bit more, he is capable of writing, he just doesn't want to", "I just think he should take some pride in his work, you know, write neatly and present it well", "What kind of future do you think he'll have work-wise if he can't write neatly?"
It was after I pointed out that very few jobs require people to write, pen to paper, anymore, that she huffed and said it was still important, so I basically told her that she was old, unable to move with the times and of a fixed mindset.

I think he'll be fine without writing neatly, technology is making the world more accessible for people like him. DW doesn't think so. I'm annoyed that DW refuses to recognise the amount of work that DS puts in, just to try to keep up with his peers. I'm annoyed that she's basically calling him lazy and accusing me of enabling 'his laziness'.
She says she wants more for him, wants the best for him etc.

We're at a loggerheads, I'm tired of having the same conversation with her...

So, oh wise ones, AITA?

@FlemCandango I agree, it is not either/ or - thats what I meant when I said IT is ok in moderation.

I agree with you. We are not disagreeing at all

I have met children and young people effectively disabled by being allowed grow a total dependence on tech which leaves them incapable of managing anything without it, and also further disabled by not developing the mental skills they would be developing using paper and pen, such as forward planning, organisation, being able to picture a future layout, etc

Thanks. I'm actually a mum too. Not taking any offence though.

If DS uses a word processor with autocorrect disabled, he he will be marked the same way others are. If he has a scribe, they can offer different levels of support, including where they only put SPaG where the students tell them too during the exam.

The thing here is, using a laptop for writing IS mainstream! Maybe working in SEN settings OP and wife are unaware of this?

I'll check out that TED talk. Thank you.

Putting aside the issue of message delivery, and knowing how awful it can be for some SEN kids to have to use traditional methods, I'm on your side in doing what works best for DS.

We are both aware and that is part of my frustration. Teachers are fine with it. We also use technology in our SEN setting too.

Oh sorry if I was unclear - I don't know (or care) what sex you are. I was responding to a pp

.

I’m with you OP.
I think you wanted to attract attention to the thread, because people scroll on through most of the time when it’s an SEN kids thread.

Your son should not be being scolded for having a disability. Your wife should know better and it sounds as if she’s in denial.
As you’ve pointed out if you push kids too far, and they feel shit about themselves, they’ll start kicking off about even going into school - or you’ll just turn them off learning.
They will lose sight of the stuff they’re good at.

It’s great that he likes Lego & drawing. As you say they’re all to the good for fine motor skills practise. My DS is never going to be employed writing out wedding invitations but his writing is legible, he’s found a way of doing it quickly that works for him, and he is good at so many other things I refuse to make him feel rubbish about one aspect of his school career.

If you can get him some OT privately (though they are thin on the ground d even if you’re able to pay) you can then carry on the exercises they’ve taught you/him at home.

100% boost his confidence and emphasise the things he can do.
He is FAR better off doing OT than practising the writing itself.

Having beautiful handwriting is lovely, but it’s the content of what you’re writing that counts, surely?

If you are in the UK, when it comes to exams, your DC will be marked down if they do not write their own work. There are scribes for children who need them, but if it's avoidable, most children are advised to write their own work as it means a few extra marks for spelling and punctuation.

That is not correct. He can use a laptop. Both my dc used laptops and it helped enormously.

Your use of the word old sounds similar to when I called one of my ds's teachers a dinosaur. It did not relate to age it related to fixed methodologies and old fashioned pedagogy

YANBU

I'm dyspraxic and had a scribe and the ability to type exams way back in the 90s

The practice more, undercurrents of people assuming I'm lazy still bothers me to this day.

For me it's like asking an adult who's only done gcse French to answer essay questions in French eg. Tell me about ww1 in French. You'll be able to get something out, but the quality of the answer will always be limited by how much French you know and it will take you six times as long to get a sentence out . Of course you could put effort into learning French but that takes away the effort from learning the subject its self.

My grading in a subject if written will always be limited by my writing speed, and how much I can get on paper and what you can read of that . With the combo of extra time and typing it means that I can answer what I actually know and get the points based on my actual understanding

Otherwise it's like every subject you get taught needing that answer written in your non dominant hand and it doesn't how much you can write with your dominant hand (in my case typing) you'll only be marked for the responses you can give left handed, legibly in an hour.

There are some things where its fair to Dock points eg potentially for English. But it's unfair that one deficit means that every single subject from history, to pe becomes down marked

Luckily in secondary school, I was allowed to type.

I have legible enough writing that I function in life eg. I could write dockets as a waitress, and can fill in forms which is the important thing but I refused to be excluded from university, and subjects I enjoyed and was good at based on my writing

Using a laptop is fine but using a voice to text app would not be I don't think? As they would lose spelling and grammar marks

If you are in the UK, when it comes to exams, your DC will be marked down if they do not write their own work. There are scribes for children who need them, but if it's avoidable, most children are advised to write their own work as it means a few extra marks for spelling and punctuation.

That's not true at all. As long as the spell check isn't on then the work is marked the same as for those who hand write.

OP it sounds as if you have a really good conscientious kid there, and your wife is doing her best to spoil that. If you're not careful he'll disengage - 'what's the point in doing this work if it's still not good enough.'

My ds has appalling writing - used a word processor in exams. Now doing an MSc so hasn't held him back. I doubt it'll hold him back in the workplace either tbh - why would it.

School said hw should be checked by teachers.
I check hw at work.
DS can write and usual I can read his writing. He does write sometimes. I take on board your personal experience too. He draws, which helps with spatial awareness.

Focusing on presenting his work neatly is holding back the subject learning though.
If the objective is to wrote well or present work well, then fine. I don't want him to fall behind because he's putting the effort into letter formation above all else.
We've done years of writing practice and hand therapy etc.

He can write and he can write neatly when he has to, I just don't think he has to all of the time.

There is a big difference between being able to write neatly for short periods of time and having to produce extended pieces of work. For many dyslexix/dyspraxic/autistic children the brain effort it takes in to producing neat work means it is a long, laborious process and they are concentrating so much on it that they can't focus on the content/what they are supposed to be learning.

Has he ever done a DASH test?

I commented earlier about having typed exams

As an aside for me, what helped with getting my writing legible is taking the pressure out of it.

I didn't write very wordy home work, but might wrote printed worksheets that needed one word answers. For me not being able to express myself by writing was frustrating so I'd find things like history, re, and geography really frustrating to write because I couldn't get out my ideas and show that I got it to get the points

I much preferred practicing writing for things that weren't marked, fun things or were just for me, like shopping lists or my diary.

Small amounts of everyday writing was better for me, rather than writing that was marked

I think a good compromise is that he types for academic work, but practices writing in other ways that's less pressured

You were rude but you were right.

Your AIBU was about the name calling. But your whole post then was about the h/w issue. No mention of your wife’s reaction, her feelings, etc. Just a big wall of text about why you’re right and she’s wrong. I made the mistake of answering your AIBU not validating or debating the h/w issue. When I now realise that is what you wanted.

Thanks for your post @Skyofplanets as I was getting irrationally upset by this thread.

<takes calming breath>

No-one is actually saying the DS shouldn't practice his writing, I guess. What OP is saying is that the focus on presentation of his homework is stopping from engaging with the actual learning.

Exactly the same as the teacher I mentioned earlier who insisted on date written in full (including the day), title and underlined for every piece of jotter work. When I got the book back at the end of term, some days my DS had managed this piece of essential handwriting and then not managed to capture any of the lesson, some days he'd ignored it and managed to scribble down two or three learning points. Which, I wonder, was better for DS?

I have a child with both, and she uses a computer solely at secondary school (about to head into GCSE years). She barely writes anything, as I thought given the technological world we live in now it was far better to focus on her typing/computer skills than it was to waste time trying to get get
to write 5% more neatly. ALL her exams are done on the computer now, she has loads of extra help, and the school have been fantastic at implementing these strategies to help her cope with an ever growing work load. She was completing about 20% of her homework, because writing for her is so slow, compared to all of it now. She’s in a mainstream school as well.

Life is hard enough for kids with SEN, why make it harder for them!

If you are in the UK, when it comes to exams, your DC will be marked down if they do not write their own work. There are scribes for children who need them, but if it's avoidable, most children are advised to write their own work as it means a few extra marks for spelling and punctuation

I’m also going to say that this is wrong. Incredible how many teachers don’t know exactly what is/isn’t marked and what support is available for children with SpLDs. @GreenTreesAndRainbows please fight your DS’s corner (albeit politely). More than your wife perhaps, you need to focus on his school. If the teachers are the ones to say how he’s expected to do his homework then this may take the heat out of your discussions with your wife.

He can use a computer and won’t be marked down for any GSCE apart from English. As you say, it will be spellcheck disabled. Even that is madness as when he gets to university he won’t lose marks for spelling or grammar regardless of what he studies. However, he can still have a reader/scribe for even English but will have to spell the difficult words to the scribe. He can sit exams using whatever his ‘standard practice at school is’ so the earlier he’s comfortable with computers the better. He can even have a reader with using a computer or he may prefer scribe and reader so he doesn’t have to even worry about typing slowly. He does not gain any marks in GCSE biology for example for correct spelling as long as it’s close enough to the correct word for the marker to recognise it. Make sure the school does not try to tell you that the computer must be spellcheck disabled for all exams. This is not true.

He ought to get extra time for exams and can have up to 50% extra time as long as that’s standard practice at school. Do not be put off by Sen teachers repeating ad nauseum he’s only allowed 25% extra time. That is wrong.

He’s only 12 and as he gets older his handwriting could get better simply due the bones in his hands strengthening. With dyspraxia this process can take longer. Likewise often with dyslexia eye movement strengthens in puberty and reading can improve with more controlled eye movement.

It’s so frustrating that people including teachers are so dogmatic and so wrong to the detriment of young fragile learners.

As someone who has to advocate daily for a SN dc, I completely sympathise with you, but I’m still going to say that the most powerful thing you can do for your dc at this point is work on your communication style.

I’m not being pithy either. Google it, learn about the techniques of arguing and persuasion because getting peoples backs up will do your kid no favours.

The world is changing very quickly - we’ve gone from

• separate/no education
• inclusive classrooms
• accomodations

in two generations, and in the last decade we’re breaking out of the “something wrong” paradigm, and looking closely at the barriers to accommodations that children experience themselves.

The online world has opened up opportunities for ND people to excel, similar to the way early commuting opened up lucrative earning channels for people with asd . In the last two years there has been a surge in people who could “pass for normal” getting diagnosed and raising awareness.

Only a few years ago the goal was to pass for normal - that has changed. Look around at the most creative, talented, productive and high earning people and you’ll see a lot of neurodiversity. Yet the rate of school drop out is so high for these students (who ironically are often life long learners). We have to stop this and stop failing students who are potentially so valuable to modern society, and drag the education system up to serve the needs of society now, not the 1950s.

But loads HAS changed - I’ve been pleasantly surprised by how much flexibility is built into the junior cycle (Ireland). Teachers have lots of ways to assess learning and want to. I’m assuming it’s as progressive in the UK but it really could be worth reaching out to a secondary school and learning first hand about this.

I’m having discussions like this every day. We have to. But cut out the name calling - bite your tongue, literally, if needs be. It does more harm than good.

I have a DD who uses a word processor for all essay heavy subject papers (giving her GCSEs this year). There is no way she would be where she is without these exam access arrangements including rest breaks for aching fingers.

Your wife is being U. Exam access arrangements are to LEVEL the playing field for such children who need to be able to look beyond their disabilities and at the actual subject content and their intelligence to absorb/apply.

why are you blaming the teacher? They wont have had any input into that policy.

i have to take issue with your incorrect and inappropriate use of the word "fixed mind set" - I get a bit fed up of the phrase being used as an insult by people who dont appreciate what it means.

"fixed mind set" would be more correctly applied to your son not improving his handwriting.

I am not saying he should or would or could, just clarifying what the phrase actually means

"fixed mind set" would be more correctly applied to you wanting work marked. This is a "fixed mind set"attitutude.