Both children hysterical

[Disabrie22]

To not drip feed, my side of the family has several family members with diagnosed anxiety, depression and OCD and two have had nervous breakdowns. Everyone deals with this via medication, family support, counselling but sadly for us it is a proven genetic problem. Their father is also anxious and has been very Covid anxious.

Both my children seem to have had emotional regulation issues. The slightest thing will drive them to hysteria very quickly. For example half term has been beyond exhausting with the constant upsets. Neither are easy when it comes to leaving the house - the 11 year old never wants to go anywhere so will kick off crying and wailing and the 9 year old has issues with clothes so will become hysterical at the prospect of getting dressed - it’s very much about social anxiety.
The 11 year old will cry, wail and shout at every change no matter how preparation we give him. If we don’t prep him at all he will go into horrendous meltdown.
Covid has made the problem harder as it just creates more hurdles, disappointments.
I can honestly say we’ve tried so many different techniques - I’m in special education so well aware of managing transitions, emotions and my husband is also firm but patient and understanding. Can I also just rule out autism as this has been ruled out by their school journeys.
I can honestly say my son has always struggled with his emotions to the point where a meltdown is expected by family members and a good day without a meltdown is such a relief. School is regularly calling us as the slightest injury brings on a huge meltdown and they are concerned.

Easter has been hard going with both kids alternatively kicking off. I have organised light time out - park, walks into town with friends but even that has been challenge for my son.

What would you do to move this forward? I feel like myself and my husband are exhausted from the constant wailing and shouting.

toiletbrushholder we use Biokult (I open the small pill and sprinkle it on DS’s breakfast) and also regular kefir I make at home that I mix in whenever I can eg in custard or yoghurt.
He also used to have strong aversions to things he thought might be contaminated or unhealthy or poisonous etc which I haven’t seen again even once. He’s really balanced and positive whereas used to resist doing so many things

Meltdowns and the inability to control emotions at age 11 was a red flag for ASD for my child. It's not normal behaviour for an 11yr old to be exhibiting.
Ignore the school and get them both assessed.

We tried Biokult and fish oils (omegas); there wasn't any change except extra gagging over the fish oils. We didn't see any change in behaviour with either child.

Asd
Asd
Asd

I think you can’t see the wood for the trees

Get assessed for ASD !!!!

Everything you've described ticks the autism box op. I'm not sure how you've concluded that it doesn't

We’ll defo seek an appointment with a psychiatrist. I’d be surprised if either is autistic though but I’ll leave it to the professionals (except I am one 😂)
I’ve been extremely anxious all my life and often do autism assessments and ADHD assessments because in my line of work I’m always trying to expand my knowledge. Never score a single point.

But I really appreciate what you have all said and thank you for being honest and giving me your opinions. This Easter has brought everything to a head for me - as with Covid and all its issues - the kids have got progressively more pronounced in their anxiety. If they are autistic it would be good to know. Calling the GP tomorrow - thanks everyone for taking the time to help me.

Thanks for the probiotic type - the little one drinks a yoghurt like that every day.

ASD and/or Ehler Danlos Syndrome if either of them are hypermobile. School repeatedly said DS did not have ASD he was diagnosed at 10. He didn’t just scrape an ADOS diagnosis but he was at the top of the HFA scale. Sensory issues and anxiety were his teo major issues . He performs very well academically at school and social communication issues only became more apparent when he was older.

Do they have “special interests” that they are very consumed by - I think that is often a more telling for diagnosis than say eye contact which can be learnt.

I suspected autism for my DS1 and did many tests on the internet but never showed as conclusive.

School has never said anything at all and he gets excellent marks.

Then during an eye test (!) a professional thought he was dyspraxic which led to a battery of assessments and diagnosed with dyspraxia and ADHD.

He's just started taking meds for ADHD and the difference is fantastic
He still has emotional outbursts but fewer and is generally calmer and more reasonable.

I am a huge worrier and have been my whole life. So with DS1 we naturally just adapted to him and his needs. I just assumed he was anxious like me. But he isn't. I have done tests for AdHD online for myself and I don't score for it. But DS is not me.

My dd 11 has been really struggling the last year. Won't go out and if we do gets really anxious, it's at the point now where she gets so worked up in the car that she screams and shouts to get out.
She is bright, has lots of friends and is a gorgeous kind and caring girl. It's absolutely heartbreaking.
We took her to a therapist and with in 30 minutes of the first session the therapist said 'Aspergers' the school had mentioned it the day before I too.
I work in an SEN school and am very aware of ASD but couldn't even spot it in my own daughter. Now I can see it and feel like I have failed her, but now we know it's likely we are reacting and helping her with her meltdowns in a different way, it's tough but hopefully she'll get some help soon.
When children are suffering so badly with anxiety to the point they won't go out it's always worth considering ASD.

Also will add my dd doesn't tick any of the ASD typical boxes, really she's the absolute opposite of them but this will be due to such a long time masking.

Well they are wrong, aren't they? He does have sen. At the very least he has SEMH issues. He sounds to also have communication issues.

You can be the most academically able kid in the class and still have sen. It's also common for autistic kids to mask their behaviour and conform to expectations in school, but at great cost to their mental wellbeing which causes meltdowns and anxiety in the "safe" setting of home.

Your children unquestionably have special educational needs; the issue is, what is at the root of it?

OP, whether your children have ASD or not (my DS is diagnosed, and my DD has undiagnosed SPD and possible ASD), we have found using CBD oil has been brilliant for DS's emotional regulation. DS uses simplyCBD aqua, just a few drops in a drink at breakfast time, and his tolerance for change has greatly improved.

In this position I'd look at outside support, privately if you can find the funds. If not a sensory issue then maybe anxiety disorder but this can often come with another sensory issue,not necessary autism. I've done alot of research on this myself as anxiety is a struggle for my DC and some sensory sensitivities.but nothing autistic like. There's an great website called Additude which covers so many issues feom.ashd to autism.and anxiety with great resources. It's USA based but so helpful I find.
You can go to places for assessment with child psychologists who practice privately. It will cost a fair few quid though. What about a male child therapist who specialises in working with kids this age or the family as a whole. It sounds like you need support. Again not cheap to go the private road. Just because one has ruled out autism does not mean there isn't something else going on. A professional you pick yourself may also help with the home environmental and looking at how you guys can respond to situations. I realise that I sometimes make things worse by getting uptight myself, understandably so, when I think there will be emotionally struggles for dc that will impact me getting things done through the day.

Btw Tony Attwood is one of the world's foremost authorities in HFA: he didn't spot it in his own son who was recently diagnosed as an adult.

I am a psychologist, working mainly in autism, and my own son I went back and forth on for years - he was eventually diagnosed at 10, and now he's an adult it's absolutely barn door obvious he is autistic. I have no idea how I couldn't see it.

It came as a massive shock to find out my son has ASD. He didn't tick any boxes (what I believed to be a box) but I knew there was something. You need a proper assessment by someone qualified.
I have friends with children who have ADHD and ASD and it was like comparing apples and oranges. I really didn't see it coming.

I would strongly second pro biotics.

I’m in no way an expert but to give a tiny bit of background this is due to the enteric nervous system. Sometimes called “the 2nd brain” by neuroscientists so you can imagine from that how important they think it is.
It’s only been discovered recently (in scientific terms, and e.g. relative to the brain :). They’re still researching exactly it’s mechanisms and impacts.
Please google it @Disabrie22.
(Disclaimer: I’m definitely not a neuroscientist! but I have 2 in my family.)

They need to be assessed and I am surprised you haven’t done so before. Even if you feel it’s just ‘anxiety’ related and not autism it does sound extreme.

My dc have trouble regulating their emotions and behaviour and they do have diagnosed conditions (not autism) which are very complicated and it has been a long process but started with the GP when they were very young.

My DS (who does have SEND, tbf) has struggled with anxiety over the last few years, which is both a symptom of his other diagnoses (anxiety is very frequently co-morbid with other conditions such as ASD and ADHD) and the cause of meltdowns at home and at school. He was referred to a local counselling charity, and I did an online course with them about "managing your child's anxiety". Is there anything like that near you? We were referred by the SENCo and pastoral lead at school. As part of the course, I had to read and work through this book, which is quite helpful (although the authors do say explicitly that it's not designed with children who have SEN in mind!).

NICE gold standard for assessment is a Multi Disciplinary Team approach. Could include...

• Either a child psychologist / psychiatrist (specialist in ASD, SpLD, ADHD, ADD & related conditions
• Paediatrician (if needed)
• GP general health check
• SALT
• OT
• Specialist hearing assessment
• Behavioural optometrist assessment

A teacher does not have the training to assess & diagnose. Especially complex co-morbid cases, ASD and related conditions or where the difficulties are not directly learning (academic) based.

I have lived with dh’s anxiety over the last decade and I think this is what you’re getting at rather than SEN diagnosis, he has has CBT periodically and that helps massively.

Perhaps you could try that ?

ASD mum here and it screams of ASD to me.

Anxiety and emotional regulation is often a huge part of ASD by the way.

Your post screams ASD to me too I'm incredulous that you can't see it. You need to speak to GP and ask for referrals to developmental paediatrician who can arrange a multi disciplinary assessment. Are they under the care of CAMHS?
FWIW my dd was diagnosed at age two has an IQ of 162, SENCos and Autism Outreach always struggled to spot the autism as she masks like a professional and uses her high intelligence to ensure she flies under the radar.