10 year old DD constantly VILE to 6 year old sister

[WitheringEyeRoll]

Just totally venomous, shouting and sometimes hitting, hair pulling etc. The poor kid can move without getting it in the neck.

I've tried reasoning, withdrawal of privileges, seperating them and I've even lost my shit once or twice. All I get when I'm trying to reason with her is a mouthful of abuse back.

10 year old gets PLENTY of attention out with this behaviour.

Tips for getting through this with my nerves intact!

I dont have the answer but I was the younger kid in this scenario and as bad as my brother was in front of my mother he was 100 times worse when she wasnt around. This is abusive behaviour and has the same long term effects as parental abuse ( read up on sibling abuse). It caused me years of mental health problems including numerous suicide attempts.
I appreciate this might be difficult but I would advise you never leave the two of them alone and whenever your older one starts seperate them immediately. Either by taking the younger one to another room or sending the older one to another room.

Thank you Harriet. I will definitely bear that in mind and read up on it.

My older B used to attack my younger B all the time when my mum wasn’t there . My younger B was traumatised for years

I was going to post but thought better of it. But then Harriet did it for me.

I was also the youngest child is a situation like this.

I was name called, impersonated, slapped, kicked, hair pulled, dragged out of bed onto the floor in the morning, scratched, I could go on.

The older we got the worse the abuse got. I couldn't even be ill, they called me names and pathetic and malingering.

The abuse extended into school. She used to get her friends to laugh at me too and say they'd sort me out. She used to follow me in the play ground, make up stories about something I'd supposedly done wrong and reported back home to parents.

She made my life hell for years. I spent years wondering why she was so nasty and trying to make her like me.

When I broke down in tears at about 14 and said you've always been so nasty to me ...she did a fake smile and said awwww poor baby is reminiscing how pathetic

Basically she hasnt changed towards me in adulthood. She treats me with utter contempt and to her I only exist to talk about her self to.

Interesting her vile behaviour manifested itself in her marriage after the novelty wore off and her husband has divorced her.

My sister is just a cunt. Always was, always will be. Don't do what my mum did which was down play her behaviour.

Keep your youngest away from her. Don't ever leave her alone with her.

I am going too far in saying this (and I know that) but having been on the receiving end for an entire child hood I'd slap your eldest good and fucking hard.

It is abuse. 10 is above the age of criminal responsibility and old enough to know it's wrong.

Imagine in a partner treated his wife like this? It would be grounds for divorce or police involvement

Don't down play the effects just because it is children

By impersonating I mean that I would be sitting on the sofa minding my own business and she would walk past me, pull a face and say this is you...and how ugly you look.

Yeh my brother did this to me too and it was always worse when no parent was about.
I still think about it and even though we are quite friendly now I am still hurt by it years later.

Don't have the answer for you really. I expect some severe punishments required rather than just taking stuff away. Also what do you do when you get a mouthful of abuse?
My dad would have ripped us a new one if we ever spoke back

I'd take her to the GP and ask for some mental health support and speak to the school too. Say you're worried about her violent behaviour at home.

Maybe the humiliation of having real life consequences will stop the little shit behaving like that.

Because she treats her younger sibling like a personal punch bag and also shouts at you and as far as I can see gets clean away with it.

God your post and the subsequent replies are hard to read. Please please protect your youngest, this is awful that she is being abused in her own home by her sister.

Please take your eldest to a GP and explain everything you have here. If there's no mental health issue going on here, maybe it will at least shame her into not being a horrible bully to her sister. She's old enough to know this is so so wrong.

Wow. Some huge food for thought. I'm genuinely not down playing, because when its bad its bad, but there are occasions where they play nicely together, and there is evidence of her protecting her sister at school/at clubs.

However I will be keeping a very watchful eye and will be looking for a referral to CAMS.

I would advocate zero tolerance with eldest, mine are 16 months apart so always played together, and of course disagreed at times, and got cross with each other...

I came down on the perpetrator like a ton of bricks straight away every time, no matter how inconvenient....from when my eldest was 2 and tried to shove my youngest hard for taking a toy...I picked her up unceremoniously sat her on a stool and told her
'we do not EVER hurt each other, if you do that again you will go to bed' of course she did, so she went to bed and cried.
I have nipped in the bud every single incident of the mildest fighting between them, and got really tough at about 7 and 8 respectively.

They have had to sit in seperate empty rooms to ' think about how it feels to be treated like that' then explain it to me...it gets pretty irritating for them pretty fast!

But at 12 and almost 14 they treat each other with respect the majority of the time, even when l am not around (as they know l will ask people how they behave and there will be harsh consequences for any horrible behavior to each other or anyone else) probably more out of habit than love, at this age but it is an important lesson to be aware of how you treat others.

I won't tolerate bullying as like so many was on the receiving end at school and although my experiences were quite mild saw some real damage done to friends.

If your DD was mine l would put the fear of god into her, and be on top of every incident with more severe consequences each incident, until she realised life was going to be pretty miserable unless she changed her ways.

You need to step up and protect your youngest and teach your eldest this will not be tolerated.

I think I am going to sit down with her and read these replies. If I'm honest, they've really shocked me, so hopefully will do the same for her.

I was in the outside part of a cafe in the summer holidays with my two,dc and there was a woman there with her kids and she went in to order and the oldest started straight away having a go at his sister and she was just so resigned to it. I remember thinking that I didn't want my kids to witness it and then feeling so awful because it was this girls actual life.

I can't imagine having someone in your home making your life a misery. A home is the place you should feel safe and happy.

They've shocked you OP because you're not on the receiving end.

Imagine how it feels to be unsafe in your own home from being hit and verbally abused. It is shocking.

I was the younger child in this scenario. No matter how small and quiet I made myself in my own home he would always find me. It was relentless. He was always the perpetrator, I was always the victim. We were latch-key kids and my parents did it want to hear about it when they came home tired. Easier for them to dismiss it as normal sibling argy bargy than see it for the abusive behaviour it was. He was a horrible child and is a horrible adult and I am NC with him. He should have received intensive help as a child. Our parents failed us both.

Another younger sibling. It's screwed me up good and proper, along with a host of other stuff but all made worse by mother doing nothing and no father present.
I'm not sure I can ever let it go. 50s now.

Sort it, whatever it takes.

OP the older one is possibly seeing this behaviour somewhere or is on the receiving end of it so think carefully where it could be happening.

I wouldn't read her stories of trauma from this thread. It won't mean anything to her - it's way too adult for a 10yr old to comprehend
Get some expert help

Have you asked her why OP?

I came on to say too that was me to a lesser extent. Only in adulthood have I looked back and seen it was abuse. 1. Dangling my toys out the window knowing this upset me 2. Locking me in a cupboard at a friends house 3. Calling me names etc.

These things really stuck with me, its basically made it hard for me to stand up for my needs because 'no one really listens' and affected how I thought about my looks.

The basic skill lacking is empathy, my siblings ability to self regulate emotions, so if you can teach your DD that no this behaviour is not acceptable, when your DD feels that way to leave the room and do something else, and every single time (very important) there is a proper apology (and understanding of what they did wrong and how it hurt) and make up, and teach your younger DC how to stand up for herself, always tell if she is being bullied and always make sure you listen. You won't see it all, that is true.

It's quite a big age gap and I wonder if that is playing a part.

What saved me was being able to go to (a different) school and I had the option to stay away sometimes. I also tried to run away once but only made it to the shops .

I can understand why you would not see it from the other side as much as your energy is going on damage limitation and your younger DD probably can't verbalise it. I hope these replies help you move from stopping it to healing it. I would definitely recommend a child psychologist if you can't fix it yourself.

I'm happy and adjusted btw.

Please listen to these replies. My sister was abusive and vile for years and Mum has always minimised it. it resulted in my suffering with anorexia and low self-esteem.
It has damaged my relationship with Mum even in adulthood.

Try reading Siblings without rivalry.

Your eldest is still old enough to know better but she is 10. You may not realise it but how she has been parented could be why she’s behaving this way. I doubt it’s coming from nowhere.

I would speak to her calmly when her sister isn’t around to ask exactly what is driving this behaviour. I assume she doesn’t do this to other people so she can control herself.

My youngest can be a right little shit to her older brother. He doesn’t hit her or anything because we’ve always always been zero tolerance. And, he went through a period of quite a temper and we spent a long time explaining what he should do and praising him when he did exactly that. I’m not saying the youngest deserves it - no one does but, as hard as it may be, try and see this through your eldest eyes as well and give her tools to manage her reactions.

I would suggest you do the same thing every single time. In our house, anything physical is the removal of electronic devices. And it applies equally to the oldest and youngest.

Id have loved to go to a different school from my sister. She undermined me there as well and destroyed my confidence.
I remember so clearly getting away to university and thinking I'd never have to take it anymore. Happiest day of my life.

I should add - you need to have the conversations with her at a different time to when the incidents happening, when everyone is calm.

I was the younger child in this situation. As an adult I have very little contact with my Mum and no contact with my Brother. I've suffered with low self-esteem and anxiety since my teenage years (now mid-30s). I moved out at 16 and let a lot of people treat me terribly as it's what I had come to expect :( I really hope you get some help. You sound like a good Mum btw, acknowledging the problem/looking for solutions. I think mine ignored and even facilitated my Sibling's behaviour.

Hopefully she is not too old for you to really help her make a change. It really does stay with you so its good you are recognising that its not normal and is unacceptable.

A particular low point in my childhood was my brother lifting me up by my neck and holding me against a cupboard door. Its only now that I realise just how dangerous that was. And that was just one incident amongst many.. and yes, when my parents went around it was ten times worse. We had some great times and I genuinely had fun with him - of course I did - but there were also some truly horrific, violent times which I wouldn't wish on anyone.

When did it start OP?