Shocked and saddened by dd messages on Instagram

[Countrygirl001]

Unknown to my daughter, who is 12, I have recently looked through her messages on Instagram. I am pretty shocked by some of the stuff I've read. There is some sexually explicit chat with a couple of different boys who are both the same age as her. My two concerns on this are the content of the messages (really not appropriate at 12) and how she seems to be constantly chasing one of the boys who, although joined in the explicit chat, is clearly not interested (good!).

She is also pretty mean, bordering on bullying, to her cousin and one of her cousins friends (they are also 12). I'm worried how this could all blow up if my brother/ sister-in-law read the messages.

I honestly cannot believe this is the same girl, my lovely dd who up until recently has been so quiet and loving - she seems to have turned into someone I really don't know. I'm upset and really disappointed by all this.

So now I have to deal with this and am asking for advice. I feel a slight sense of guilt at snooping on her messages - how do I tackle this aspect as well?
Thanks

Hmm. I think the idea that my child might successfully set up a Facebook account on a school computer is pretty far fetched.

She may well be able to look at Instagram or comment on it, in the same way that she could look at hard core porn.
But I think suggesting that telling a child they are not allowed something will result in their resorting to quite complicated and challenging deceit in order to set up an account on a friends tablet or on the school computer is unhelpful.

The idea that we can control everything is of course nonsense. I am just as frustrated as anyone else by the parents who hand over a smart phone, set up Instagram for their 12 year old and then expect them to have the maturity to handle it on their own.

But I'm getting a bit bored of the suggestion that parents just have to say yes to everything because children absolutely will both want to, and will be successful in doing these thing duplicitously .

Obviously how your parent your child is entirely up to you. I am just stating the fact that at our school a very high proportion of year 8 students use social media and a very low proportion of their parents think they do. I know that some students use fb yet their parents tell me they aren't allowed and little
Johnny wouldn't possibly do it behind their back and they are absolutely convinced of that as he tells them everything and always has done at primary school.... We collect this information every year and it has been the same for the last 8 years at least. Not sure how that 'isn't helpful'.

I am not saying that banning it makes children search it out and use it, but if a parent has banned it and they want it then there is a very high possibility they will do it behind their back and then if there are issues not come to talk the parents about it because they think they will get in trouble.

But that's my point.

It's sensible to remind parents constantly that children can do things you don't expect of them, that peer pressure and the Internet are a siren call it is hard for a teen or pre teen to resist.

But, honestly, your 'oh little Johnny is doing it behind their back' is incredibly patronising and faintly gleeful.

An assumption and announcement that my child will do X not only reduces every child to a lowest common denominator but sounds a bit like you, professionally, assume all parents are guilable fools.

How does sneering at parents help? How does grimly assuring them that they are helpless in the face of their child's access to technology give any parent a sense that this is something they are equipped to help their child through? No wonder parents just give up and hope.

You have certainly enjoyed talking down to me with your 'obviously parent your child how you wish. I'm just stating a fact..' schtick. Is that generally a successful approach? I would have thought it was about as successful with parents as you think banning things is with children.

'Lowest common denominator'?!? What a horrid phrase to use, it seems to infer that children that don't use social media are somehow superior. But yes clearly it is me that is being patronising...

I have dealt with the fall out many times of children getting into tricky situations and begging me not to tell their parents because they will get in trouble.

I never said that banning it would make all children do it. Just that a lot will (not because you banned it, as I clearly said before but because they want to for whatever reasons) and if they do, they may feel they then can't talk to you about it. All I have said is that if they are determined to use it they will find a way.

I am sorry if you feel my words came across as sneering - I was just saying that obviously as parents we all make our own decisions about our own children. I am just providing some information that parents at my school have found helpful in the past. As over half of them think their children aren't on social media when they are then clearly there is an issue.

Anyway, apologies OP for getting off topic here. I shall leave you to it, but feel free to PM me if you want any more links or resources to work through with your DD.

Oh come on - you know full well lowest common denominator was shorthand for 'least able to navigate the pitfalls' and not a prejorative phrase. Children are more able or less able in this area through circumstances and luck. It's not a superiority thing.

Anyway - Maybe your 'little Johnny' wasn't meant to be patronising. Perhaps we are misunderstanding each other.

Instagram isn't your problem, OP. Instagram is just the communications method she's using, not the actual root of the behaviour issues. I don't deny that is easier to be nasty when you are not face to face with the person you are bullying, but the behaviour has to be tackled.

Have you spoken to her about sex? Not about sexting or internet messaging, but respecting her body, being honest and open.

Re the bullying, have a look at at this article, and speak to the school about how they can help her worth through her feelings.

I wouldn't take phone away or ban instagram - she needs to learn how to use social media safely. If you ban instagram, she'll go online elsewhere, or borrow a friend's school. I agree with MrsHP - a lot of my DD's friends use social media, and their parents are quite clueless.

A diary is completely different to Internet and social media. A diary is not likely to be in the public domain nor does it involve communicating with others or potentially behaving inappropriately. Anything my DD does online or in her phone is fair game as far as snooping is concerned. It is actually quite useful as we discuss what is going on, what others are putting online and how it might be perceived. I am amazed by what some young girls post and even more amazed that any parent I their right mind is ok with some of this stuff.

Caprini
I know that some of DDs friends have set up Instagram accounts without their parents knowledge - not that difficult to do really on a phone, tablet or at a mates house. I am also aware of others who have permission to have Instagram that is monitored but then have dummy or duplicate accounts that their or parents are not aware of. I think MrsHP was just trying to say not to underestimate how far kids will go with this stuff.

Sure. And there are children who lie about where they are going, bunk off school, smoke or drink alcohol, have sex or steal.
Most of those we can't simply stop by saying no yet we persist and don't assume they will just do it anyway.

I'm only saying, my only point is, that the suggestion that there is no point in even resisting a child's desire to have (for example) an Instagram account is not necessarily helpful.
Of course if they are really determined they will find a way to do it.
But saying no isn't inevitably some thuggish, blunt, one dimensional approach. It seems to me that is a depressingly negative way to view all children.
I just think it's possible to discuss and negotiate these things. I explain to DD what the rules are about, I listen to her, I am prepared to adjust things, I'm not punitive with her. We try to have a framework which allows her to get as much as she wants without my feeling her safety or happiness is being compromised.
Do I believe its fail safe? No.
Do I think I've cracked it? Definitely not.

But I'm still going to say not to face book and snap chat and will discuss it as often as it takes and explain why and will do so in the full knowledge that I might find out one day that she has done it anyway behind my back. I'm going to try and create an environment where she and I try to communicate and respect each other about this. It may be hopeless but hey.

I'm not just going to listen to 'oh well, she'll do it anyway, parents are so fucking deluded.' I just find that incredibly depressing and unhelpful.

Thanks all for your feedback and links - lots and lots of brilliant advice. She is off school today so will be sitting down later to talk about it.

My main focus will be to hopefully get her to realise how wrong some of the chat is, how it impacts on others and reflects on her and how she is not ready to be given the freedom she has had so far online. Will follow up with some clear rules on future use - haven't yet decided on a ban, but will involve complete access to her devices and social media account and time restrictions.

I don't feel this needs to be taken to a wider group - school, police etc - I understand where you are coming from, but I want to keep this in-house for now. The school seems to be on top of this stuff - I feel at the moment this needs to be reinforced from home.

Thanks all again.

I would do what we've done with out DD - report her as an under 13.

You should only be on Instagram when you're over 13 or with parents permission. Neither which is the case. Another mum on her advised that Instagram wanted to see her birth certificate to verify her age.

IMO if they can't use it responsibly, they shouldn't be on it, which sounds like your DD.

Just reading up the thread, lucky you folks that have DDs you can sit down & talk to, my DD refuses to listen, calls me a bully, calls me vile names, says I'm fat (I'm not !) & is completely unreasonable. She is in fact a blend of Kevin & Perry & the "am I bovvered. ?" character.

Is it worth writing to her "Oxford" ?

It's not snooping if it's a social media account, she is 12 and you are her parent. She should be very aware that in terms if 'snooping' you are the least of her worries. If she is too embarrassed to share her on-line activity with you, she shouldn't be sharing it on-line.

As is often said, parents are the last to know/suspect.

My DD (10) received a few vile unsolicited text messages from a girl in her class whom we have known since both the girls were little. DP went straight to the other girl's father (both were doing morning drop off at the beginning of the school year) and showed him the exchange. The other girl's father was extremely surprised and shocked but clearly dealt with his DD as no more incidents have occurred.

ledkr it's funny you should suggest that as I've been thinking of that as a possibility, then she can read it on her own terms.

Perhaps she does find questions threatening, I don't know. She is so unreasonable, it makes me very sad & it can't be nice for her.

Caprinini
I don't think 'oh, well they are going to do it anyway', but I do think that at some point kids are going to use social media, and it's my job as a parent to ensure that they do so sensibly.

Despite some of the stories on this thread, Instagram is actually quite a good app for kids to start using social media, as there isn't as much abuse on there as e.g. on Twitter.

Parents can't just hand over a smartphone, let the kids download Instagram and leave them to it. There have to be controls and checks (agreed beforehand) and an agreement to use it kindly.

Countrygirl
Good luck with your chat. This might help, as a starting point. There's a printable version here

I know Mme and, although it's probably lost up thread, I did say I do let my DD use it with my over seeing that as best I can.

I'm just trying (and clearly failing) to make a general point about a tone/attitude which I see a lot on here and in rl.

Whilst spectacularly failing in just trying to say that we should ever give up on the idea that we can shape our child's experience of social, I do at least give myself points by persistence.

I know what you mean - there does seem to be a 'oh, you can't disappoint/refuse your child something' attitude amongst some parent, which doesn't actually help kids at all, cause life is fecking disappointing at times! I only skimmed some of the earlier posts, so must have missed your comment.

It's all about balance, imo. Giving them enough space to navigate their way across the wobbly bar of life, but being ready to catch them if they fall.

I am not sure about ther merits of Instagram Mme as a good start for kids on social media. IMO it needs to be approached with extreme caution and monitoring and rules are a must.

Yes some kids do use it to post cute pictures of puppies, cupcakes and fluffy kittens but really with girls it is just a major popularity contest. It is a minefield of bitchiness and parents need to make sure their kids are able to cope with the social difficulties as well as the security ones.

What I mean by IG as a good starting point, is that there isn't the same kind of open abuse as on Twitter. Less swearing, less inappropriate images, scary stuff etc.

I know that there is a lot of competition, and the pressure of being flawless - that's why I always advise that parents should talk to their kids about this. Including pointing out that no one's life is perfect, and the girls with thousands of followers have stylists to create the ideal shot, photoshop and filters to conceal any blemishes or imperfections.

A lot of girls are now using Snapchat for this reason - it's much more spontaneous and less of a competition. No filters, so you just have to go with what you look like!

Thing is - they are going to encounter online nastiness at some point in their life, just as they will RL nastiness. So you start them off with Pinterest, Instagram or Snapchat, and teach them the rules. I'd rather my daughter learned from me, and we talk about these things all the time, than relying on school.

"Instagram is actually quite a good app for kids to start using social media, as there isn't as much abuse on there as e.g. on Twitter."

When my DD was in the last year of primary school, many DC (not she) had Instagram accounts and used them to post pictures of themselves in compromising positions. There was a lot of pressure within a particular group of DC to couple up and advertise that fact to the rest of the group.

I agree Mme Instagram is probably the best of a bad lot as far as online safety on social media is concerned although I just hate the ethos of it. Although Snapchat has is merits too Bobo as pictures are not out there in a profile, this also has downfalls where bullying and sexually explicit messages are sent and can then disappear. In the OPs case if her DD had been using Snapchat she would never have found out.

It's all about education though, Bobo. I've been talking to my kids about online safety for years, and recently said something about posting pics of their bodies and they both rolled their eyes and said that no one does that, and everyone knows that's wrong. It's been pretty well drummed into them, both at school and at home, and they are quite clued up.

I think you just have to be vigilant and very interested in what they are doing, and keep talking. Even when they roll their eyes!

I can educate my own DD but not the DCs of others . I'm really not happy about the pressure that Instagram pictures of 10 year olds lying on beds together puts on other DC.