I am beyond struggling

[ToffeeOwnsTheSausage]

dc is 12 and a fucking pain in the arse

he takes the piss, winds me up, blames me for their bad behaviour, says he can't wait to move out, encourages his younger brother to be naughty, does not do as he is told, told me to shut up, said he wouldn't do his homework etc etc etc

I have had lots of advice, I felt I couldn't do if it involved outside people - and I know it is me that is not up to the job.

I have tried ignoring but I can't keep my temper all the time.

I was ill in hospital twice last week through chest pains brought on my stress

I can barely look at him

I want out and I have had enough

[longtallsally2]

Mmmm, chocolate chip muffins

Toffee you sound so depressed - medically, I mean, not just low. Is your GP treating you for depression as well as stress? Either way, can you show your GP or your dh this thread? You describe your sadness so clearly here.

I honestly do know how you feel, having battled with pnd, long after I should have sought help. I still struggle with the boundless energy of my two dss, whom I love to distraction, but find them very hard going too - and I only have two of them! Your volunteering is a really good step, and will help you get back in touch with you. It sounds as if getting away to a hotel or spa would be the wrong thing for you, when you do get a break. You need to be with people, occupying your mind and rediscovering that you can be useful/competent and achieve so a course or extended volunteering somewhere would be ideal. (For me, getting back to work saved my sanity. I am lucky enough to live in a city, so managed to get various part time jobs and to do some volunteering too. I function so much better at home if I have an out-of-home persona too.)

Can you take 5 minutes when it is quiet to tell your ds what you have just told us, about sitting with him whilst he is asleep? It's frightening for kids to know that you aren't coping, but they will manage, as long as they know you love them. Life isn't perfect and it's quite possible to survive all sorts of difficulties. In fact, take five minutes to give them all a hug - even if they think they are too big for that sort of thing! In fact, as them, each of them, to give you a hug, and say thank you to them for it. Tell them that you love them - even if you shout at them. And then enjoy those muffins too!

Thinking of you.

[LastingLight]

Can you pm me a chocolate muffin

I really hope you all have a fabulous day out. Don't expect perfection, but do go into it with the attitude that they will be good and you will be able to sort out any issues without becoming overly upset.

[longtallsally2]

You are not lost forever, though you feel lost now. There is a fog around you, which means you can't see where you are or where you are going. But if you can reach out to those around you, hold each other, and eat chocolate, it can't make things worse, and the fog will lift, one day.

PS Remember to save a muffin, and a hug for your dh too. He needs to give more to you, but he probably doesn't know where or how to begin, and may well be confused and scared too. Holding each other is a temporary break from all the confusion, and is nice too - like chocolate!

[ToffeeOwnsTheSausage]

in lieu of choc muffin .

Just sat in car having picnic after walking all round the grounds and castle. Kids were chased by 3 geese!

I told DS about sitting on his bed and he was shocked he'd not woken up. This is the child I could change his pyjamas, nappy and bed all without waking when he was 2 and still sleeps through everything!

When I worked for DH for two days I felt great. Not just mum.

I managed to ignore as much as possible when the kids were being pests and I've realised I am snappy and assume the worst sometimes.

I think DH and I are stressed with stuff we can't talk about or change and he's also had enough of me moaning about the kids behaviour. He keeps saying it is normal but it gets too much when it is every day.

Kids want to go home so bed go.

Muffins for all

[LastingLight]

It sounds as if you had a good day, I'm glad.

[ToffeeOwnsTheSausage]

Thank you.

I give it 8/10 with 10/10 being brilliant with kids behaving and me coping fine so an 8 is huge for us.

Got home to two mice from the cats. One in the hall with its tail detached and one in the kitchen. DS1 got rid of both while I was pathetic on the front garden. No flies on him "can I have my lap top back now, Mummy?!" . I said I would consider it when I had talked to daddy. I then had DS1 pitch to me as he likes pitching.

I got rid of the mice
I stayed with you while in the maze
I guided you through the grotto
Your hair is looking very nice
I played with DS2

In the end he hasn't had anything back as we don't allow screens past a certain time and dh and I still feel it is wrong to giving it him now. We were out most of the day and the point of consequences are they are meant to have an affect. So many times we give a time he has to be without X and then give in as he is very convincing but it doesn't make him behave any better so I am stumped as to what to do. He lost it yesterday until March 4th. It was one day, then 2, then 4, then 5, then a week added making nearly 2 weeks without his stuff, so he doesn't seem to get it. He needs to stop now and when you add on 3 or more increases then why on Earth isn't he stopping the unacceptable behaviour?

[LastingLight]

Were the mice alive? One of ours likes to bring mice into our room in the middle of the night, play with them for a while and then let them go. Either we catch the mouse and let it go or it crawls into a corner and die, leading to THE SMELL.

I agree with you that one should follow through on consequences otherwise they learn nothing. It's difficult to know why he isn't responding, I can only assume that the laptop is not that important to him. Other consequences we have invoked were grounding for a week, going to "jail" (3 hours in the bathroom with nothing to do) and extra chores. The ultimate punishment for dd would be if we didn't allow her to read, but we've never done that.

[ToffeeOwnsTheSausage]

The mice were dead. Boy Cat had brought s live one in but he took it out when I said too.

8.15 this morning DS1 knocked on my door and asked for his lap top. I've had the face pulling, moaning that DD has been mean and not lost anything and answering back. I've told him he's lost. Everything for nearly two weeks so to be allowed to earn it back on day 3 is very lucky.

Kids at I laws til 3 though DD is sleeping over. He's been told if he behaves he can have his iPod back once home and then his lap top if he behaves all afternoon. Just feel I'm doing it all wrong by backing down but it doesn't work to take it off him , I don't want the grief, I've already says he can earn it back.

[ToffeeOwnsTheSausage]

He loaded the dishwasher without asking so he is trying. Behaving because he wants something though and not because I've asked him too, I've been ill or because he should!
He's also refused to pay for his lost games kit but he'll get no choice in that.

[LastingLight]

I think it's ok to let him earn his stuff back as long as you don't make it too easy.

[ToffeeOwnsTheSausage]

I did make him wait. I was a bit disappointed that he snapped he had only had it an hour when I said it was time to come off it now (back at 6pm ish) and that he isn't allowed on it before 9am in the morning and has to ask me first he stropped What about DSis?

DH reminded him he should be waiting 12 days to get it back so he needs to be careful how he speaks to me. He knows if there is a repeat of the worst behaviour we had the other day I will just take it away without any warning.

[longtallsally2]

Toffee, have you written down the rules for him? When mine are niggling about it and trying to renegotiate basics - we don't have computers before 9am etc - then I sit down and write out the basics, and go through them with them. I try to frame some of the rules as positives too. It takes those rules outside of me, so that I just need to point to them, rather than explain again what our rules are. It's also quite helpful for me in reviewing what I expect and what should go top of the list,

(Do keep a copy in case they get 'accidentally' scrumpled up/lost.)

[BellaVita]

You mentioned swimming? They should be old enough to go into the pool without you - I see your youngest is 8. I would take them and let them get on with it whilst you spectate with a coffee and a magazine. Win win situation, you don't have to get in the water and they have some fun time.

[ToffeeOwnsTheSausage]

Printing out the rules is a very good idea and something we used to have on the wall but another mother came to stop her child off years ago and saw them, had a cats bum face and I took them down as I felt embarrassed.

The 8 year old can't swim fully safely yet so I would have to go in the water but I will bare it in mind. Had planned a quiet day in today as I am still feeling a bit bleurgh and felt like I was going to pass out in the car yesterday. I have to phone the bus station to se if DS1's kit has turned up so if it has we will go and get that but otherwise we will see what the day goes like. Doing Lego with DS2 later. Only 2 kids today as DD with PIL and generally it is always easier with two.

[LastingLight]

I find that screens can be quite addictive. DH and I tend to be glued to our laptops and I don't always react positively when DD wants attention while I'm on the internet generally browsing MN. So I need to carefully monitor my own behaviour as I cannot expect something from DD that I cannot do myself.

[ToffeeOwnsTheSausage]

He his huffing as it is 9am and I haven't said he can have it yet. I told him it wouldn't be before then, it wouldn't be then. He needs to watch the attitude as I am spending time ringing round about his kit when I should be writing to a sick friend and he is lucky he has it back at all!

[BellaVita]

Let him get on with the huffing. Just go about your day. IGNORE.IGNORE.IGNORE.

[LastingLight]

You need to tell him exactly when he can have it - 10:00, or when he completed certain chores. Then he knows and he doesn't have to hang around you being annoying.

[ToffeeOwnsTheSausage]

He has had it for about 45 minutes and is now baking a cake.

DS2 stropped and was rude so he has lost the computer for the day and has been sent to his room to calm down. He is 8.

I am still suffering with chest discomfort so not prepared to have any nonsense today.

[longtallsally2]

Sounds really positive. One of our houserules is "you can ask, and the answer might be yes, or no. Smile and move on . . . "

They do huff of course, but soon learn to do it out of sight/earshot.

Enjoy that cake.

[ToffeeOwnsTheSausage]

What has worked well is when I tell them I want time to think and if they push me for an answer right now it is definitely a no.

[Newyearchanger]

I find it difficult to imagine you are talking about a child the same age as mine.... 12.
The way you speak about him and argue with him makes it seem as if he is much older in his ways than my ds..... I wonder if that is because my ds is the youngest and your ds is the oldest.

I don't have any issues with my ds he is very well behaved but I am struck by the fact they are the same age yet I don't have any adult style conversations with him...I very much still treat him as a child . He is yr 7.

[soontobeslendergirl]

www.amazon.co.uk/Get-Out-My-Life-First/dp/1846680875/ref=dp_ob_title_bk?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

I've just been reading this book as I have a stroppy 12 year old too. It doesn't give advice as such, but maybe gives you a bit more insight to what is going on in their heads.

It sounds as if you are all pretty unhappy - that's not your fault.

I think trying to draw a line in the sand and move on to start afresh is a good idea. I find that he is definitely pushing our buttons but when he isn't, he is growing into a lovely young man underneath, that's what I hang on to when he is being a sh!te! I also realise that he behaves very well in school and clearly needs to vent sometimes too. We had a bit of an argument the other day as I told him that they way he was behaving was making me want to punch him (i wouldn't tho) and he said that I couldn't hit him as it is against the law as he is a child - we then got into a heated debate about him wanting the best of both worlds as he wants the freedom to behave as a grown up but the privilidges of a child too and that he neded to make up his mind which he wanted. i.e. that with maturity and trust came responsibilities too and if he wanted a life with none of that then he would get the benefits of being a child but would be expected to do what he was asked.

Anyway - it ended on good terms but it made me appreciate the dilemma that he is living with too. i do think life is hard for them and I also think that they can only be horrible to the ones they really love as they know that we will still love them regardless and I think that that actually must be a good thing?

Good luck with it all and I hope you get yourself some help too. It is important to get outside even when the weather is rubbish. What about trying to do the NHS c25k running programme - you could do that with all the kids, get them all out and get fit at the same time? Exercise definitely helps my mood and with all that cake and muffin baking maybe it will be required!

[soontobeslendergirl]

Newyearchanger - their hormones and maturity are all at different levels. My 13 year old son is still more compliant and childlike than my 12 year old - a mixture of their nature and hormones too I think.

[ToffeeOwnsTheSausage]

We definitely have tried to start again.

I have just asked him to go to the post box for me. Face pull, slight sigh. I just reminded him he has been allowed to make a cake and go on his lap top as his choices and now I would like him to help me by posting the letter. 3 minutes of his time. I know he is on his lap top and doesn't want to come off it but tough and I have told him he is on it too much and addicted if coming off it is such a problem.

I have told him we were in today and normally he moans if I say we are going out. Can't win with him!

I am still not 100% well but pleased I am staying calm and not getting wound up. When I am firm, fair and confident in my decisions the kids respond much better. I am just lacking in confidence most of the time.

He is 13 next month.