Are preschool gaslighting me ?

[greekislandsparty]

First time mum so new to this experience
LO is 2 and started preschool in September

Outstanding rating from Ofsted and tbf, objectively they are a decent provision on the face of it.

First week LO came home with a bruise on face. At pick up, worker said don’t worry it’s just a little scratch, she scratched herself playing but she’s ok. I’m the car I checked LO nails and took a picture as I knew I had cut them that weekend. I looked at the bruise again and it wasn’t consistent with a scratch. Emailed the school my concerns and pictures.

At first they tried to say I was overreacting and it was nothing and she did scratch herself. Is asked how that would be possible with low nails.

in the app, they sent me a picture of LO playing and the explanation of how LO played, and she was on a trampoline that has like a knob on the handle. To me it looked like when she jumped she bumped her face on the knob. It also made sense given the explanation of how little one was playing on the trampoline. But they didn’t outright say little LO got hurt on it.

By the end of the day, Manager called me and apologised and said they shouldn’t have said LO scratched herself and as they were unsure they should have just said that. I agreed and said I would have been less panicked with that explanation and appreciated the call.

The other week they tell me LO shows signs of SEN. Flaps arms when excited, repeats words spoken by others, refers to self in 3rd person. They gave me SEN number and said I must seek advice and additional support. Inhumoured them and called and tbf me and the SEN worker had a hit of a laugh bc she said that nothing I’ve told her means LO is SEN and maybe the setting are being overzealous. She was so reasonable but we both agreed that sometimes kids will behave differently at school to home.

When I told preschool they deputy scoffed at me and said well I’ll ring them and tell them what we observe bc we have concerns. We went round in circles and I queried everything she said, it seemed like she just wanted to be right. By the end of the convo she then says would I agree to LO being seen by the IDO just to give them a few tips about how to better engage LO. I had no issues with that but asked why they didn’t suggest that first instead of almost being adamant that all HAD to be referred to SEN. She lied and said she had suggested that. But this point I couldn’t be bothered to go back and forth.

The manager works with her sister who is a key worker and the deputy is the managers best friend. I’m worried that collusion and coverups will take place of things keep coming up. It’s draining. Am I overreacting ?

Id like to get through the year as I don’t think it would be helpful to move LO but if things keep happening then I don’t know. Any tips on how to just crack on but make sure I’m able to advocate for my child and get through the year. LO is not staying on there so it’s literally a few more months till end of school year and they’re term time only.

Sounds a bit much to me. I'd be tempted to move but I see your point, it's a lot of hassle for less than a year.

The injury thing is quite common in my experience sadly, they often get bumps and scrapes and the staff don't always see or record it. Its not right, but does happen a lot.

But the SEN thing sounds over the top to me if she's only 2. Really not sure what they expect her to be doing differently.

If there are no other noteworthy issues, we can crack on for the rest of the year but I’ll have to say if anything else happens I’ll be moving LO because I’ve almost lost all confidence in them. Not because they can’t be a decent setting but they seem to be making issues with me and I don’t know if they’re like this with other parents

The injury sounds like a non issue because children do get injured in preschool every now and then and it doesn't sound like a serious injury.
The SEN thing is more worrying.
It is only Christmas and she's got two whole terms left, if you're not happy I would definitely ring around this week, you might be lucky and get her a place somewhere else for January

Obviously they aren’t gaslighting you because this is an intentional abusive behaviour intended to cause psychological harm.

with the bruise, they obviously didn’t immediately know and I think the manager’s response was fair, these things will happen but yes they should have given a more upfront report.

The SEN thing, if they are going only on those three things it seems argumentative at best - but I presume they are experienced in working with children if that age and think her behaviour is unusual somehow? If they persist with this despite you explaining you’ve got a second opinion, it may be time to look at your options.

I would pull your child out. I was gaslit by my daughter’s primary school, always slightly different versions of events or underplaying incidents. I figured out talking to other parents that everyone was getting different stories

It sounds like scratch was being used as a colloquialism for a small injury, and that they had noticed it as some point during the day and therefore pointed it out to you as it must have happened at preschool, but they didn’t know how. When you queried it they started looking further into how it might have happened eg asking other staff members and looking at footage they had of her. Although not ideal I think this is all a bit of a non issue especially as they apologised.

As for SEN, there is every chance that at her age her any difficulties she has are not visible in a calm, quiet, supportive home environment. In the noisy, busy environment of a preschool they may be more evident. As a parent you are used to what your child does, and if she’s a first child you know no different. There may also be, for example, undiagnosed neurodiversity, in your immediate or wider family so what your child does does not seem out of the ordinary. The staff at preschool, however, see dozens of kids each year. One that is a bit different stands out. I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss their concerns. Many parents of children with SEN fight for years and years to get staff to see the issues that they see. If your preschool is one step ahead of you grab it with both hands and get all the observations, meetings, assessments, additional support and additional funding you can. If DD turns out not to have SEN no harm is done, because believe me assessments and support will only be funded if there is demonstrable need. So many children don’t get the support they need because there is insufficient funding in the system. Local authorities are trying to find every possible way to reduce their SEN budget.

You don’t understand what gaslighting is. This is not it.

injuries happen. It’s a minor bruise, and yes they probably should have said they didn’t know or we think she scratched herself- are you sure they weren’t more vague? Did they insist it was a scratch or did they say she might Are you sure it wasn’t a figure of speech?

but you really overacted with photos and demands that they admit it wasn’t a “scratch”, and a full on investigation into how it might have happened.

they’re probably now feeling they have to document everything, so any observation of possible SEN behaviour is raised- if they don’t and you think they should have, they likely think you’ll be reporting them to ofsted and leaving shitty reviews.

it’s clear the relationship with the nursery isn’t want you want so yes, move her. But I would have just shrugged off a minor bruise as shit happens and got on with things.

but no, they are not “gaslighting” you. The fact you are using such strong language to cast them in a negative light also makes me wonder if it’s you, more than them.

Also not gaslighting.

Yup I’ll be ringing round. The more I’ve thought of it, the more I’m uncomfortable

I’m sensinf some projection here. You’ve inserted scenarios that I’ve not and your reply overall is quite weird.

the definition of gaslighting : Gaslighting is a colloquialism, defined as manipulating someone into questioning their own perception of reality

If I’ve they are telling me things with the intention of making me doubt my perception then off course it’s gaslighting

Mine need to have equal numbers in order to open 1 at a time and take turns?
What is your opening etiquette?

I don’t understand this comment. Please elaborate

Wrong thread- sorry

As far as the scratching incident goes, it’s weird that you got told about the scratch then once in the car took photos and emailed them across. Why didnt you just say something about cutting her nails directly to the key worker? Perhaps the key worker wasn’t in the room when your DD got the injury, and whomever was in there reported to the KW that she thought your DD scratched herself. In addition, if I catch myself on something and it causes a scratch, I’d still say I’d scratched myself - as opposed to someone else scratching me.
With regard to the SEN matter, you're coming across as very defensive. The staff are trained in child development, including identifying SEN, because by doing so with toddlers it can be the difference between getting early support for the child or having to wait months for professional assessments. You may well disagree with the manager’s concerns, but wouldn't you like to actually rule out their concerns now? By being dismissive of their concerns, you’re actually gaslighting them!

Ok. Can’t argue with you on things you’ve added that are not factual. Thanks for your comment

Hi OP, I think you have massively overrreacted about the bruise. Yes, they could have been clearer but at the same time, these things happen all the time to toddlers and sending in photos for clarification etc seems very OTT for a one off. Regarding the SEN issues, those behaviours ARE actually red flags and who was on the end of this 'SEN number' laughing off the concerns? A Health Visitor? Or who? They are behaviours which stand out as warranting further investigations at age 2 and I'm surprised (not if it's a health visitor though!) if they were dismissed. I would personally want more investigation of my child if the nursery were raising concerns and be more unhappy that whoever deals with this 'SEN number' just dismissed these issues without even arranging a meeting with your child! Not trying to be disrespectful but your behaviour in dealing with the bruise and your acceptance of the advice of the person on this phone line is actually kinda odd IMO. You said you 'humoured' the nursery in even making this call... struggling to understand your behaviour here. Lots of SEN issues are missed till school as parents don't realise their child is behaving differently so your child seeming fine at home doesn't necessarily mean all is fine. Hope your child is OK but I'd be looking into all the concerns and seeing the GP with an objective report that nursery have concerns.

I don’t agree with your opinion on the bruise but hey u have a right to share it.

I also disagree with your view on the SEN bc I know I’m not a parent who is in denial. When your child has been in a setting for one term and issues keep coming up around communication, that is what the red flag should be bc how do u ensure your child will be safe in such a setting????

Anyways, these posts allow for minimal context and I never share the full details in anything I post. So bc I know u don’t have all the facts, your opinion is literally just to help me get a feel about what the average Joe blogs thinks about my predicament … I wouldn’t bank money on it. But some people are discerning enough to still be able to give helpful advice … yours wasn’t helpful for me but thanks anyway!!

Great OP. Good luck and glad you have found someone who agrees with you, which is clearly all you wanted anyway (can't see it though) I suspect you are going to find school and nursery life tricky...

Thanks! Would that explain why the nursery manager called me today to apologise that the same person saw me and my child in the line at the start of school and said hello to all the people in front of us, skipped us then went on to say hello to all the people behind us? The Managers call was so very helpful so alls well that ends well. Still playing it by ear and being cautious.

Once again you’ve jumped to so many conclusions in your response.

For anyone out there reading this: your gut and your intuition are your allies. Seek objective evidence to support what you’re feeling/experiencing. For me, the objective evidence today was the clear ignoring of me and my child right in front of everyone. Imagine what could happen when I’m not there if that happens when I am????

Thanks all for helping me on this one.

Follow your instincts. Re sen, parents are usually first to pick this up particularly in a two year old. I would see whether there are any other nurseries with places. I think I would not tell a new nursery why I was moving my child to avoid them prejudging you if your little e has trouble settling in. Good luck.

Thank you so much! Just out of interest, I would usually lead with a degree of honesty (factual stuff) as opposed to silence. Only bc I find that it’s generally my preferred way of moving through the world.

Outside of the fear of a nursery prejudging, is there any other reason why you wouldn’t tell them?

I feel like it’s good for me to know they’ll prejudge us (u can usually tell by their response) so that lets me know they won’t be the right setting for us.

Neither approach is ‘right’ I think it’s just preference and context

Gaslighting isn't really a colloquialism, it is a form of psychological abuse meaning to deliberately make someone doubt reality/ their own sanity. That isn't happening here.

To bump/ scratch oneself when referring to a minor injury with no known other party involved is, I suppose a fairly colloquial term. They didn't mean she literally scratched herself with her fingernails. They meant her skin had been caught on something unseen by the adults whilst the child was moving around and the resulting mark deemed to be within the bounds of normal minor children's play injuries, therefore not investigated or treated further.

It sounds like they apologised for using that turn of phrase which is usually quite readily understood, when you took it literally.

They had a concern about her behaviours being a potential sign of SEN and flagged them for further investigation. What would you suggest they do differently? Bear in mind it isn't the nursery's job to diagnose any such conditions or rule them out but they do have a duty of care over the children to pass these concerns on.

The sen thing is something you might want to remain open to. You do not think there is a problem but the nursery see lots of children and are more likely to pick up on things seeming to be not quite as expected. You have undoubtedly played down what the nursery said and have also said that you have not noticed anything hence why the sen person you called agreeing with you and calling them over zealous.

By all means move but I would not be surprised to read in a year or twos time that you think your child may have send.

Do you already have your next nursery/pre-school place lined up for September. Is there anyway you can bring this forward?

I had to pull son out of an Ofsted Outstanding school.

FWIW my son flaps arms when excited, repeats words spoken by others, refers to self in 3rd person and he is autistic. However, the nursery just told me their concerns and told me that was ‘weird’ they tell me they suspected he was autistic.

I didn’t pull my son out of nursery as they expressed concerns, I pulled him out as they expressed concerns and then did nothing to support his development. My son was in a ratio of 1:4 (this was a couple of years ago) yet his key worker knew nothing about him, what he had been up to, and was no where to been seen at pick up or drop off. When I picked a number of times he was in a poo nappy which had not just happened as it had burned his skin. The last straw was where I found out via a third party that his key worker had been squeezing him at nursery. Because they were ‘outstanding’ I felt that this had gone to their head and they thought they were above any questions from parents.

Has you DD had her 2 year check yet. I would be worth discussing your pre-schools concerns with the HV.

Getting the sense you have a whole load of issues with a whole load of people OP, beyong this nursery! Wish you the best . You come across as on edge and hope you your child can be happy - which is the main thing.