I know no-one can help BUT need some advice/sympathy....

[Becaroooo]

Ds2 is 3.5 - will be 4 in Sept - he doesnt start school til next Sept.

I am a sahm and he has only ever been with me/dh/other family members.

I have had health issues since his birth...back problems, anaemia etc. I am pretty tired tbh so we tried starting him 2 x mornings per week at a pre school last sept just before his 3rd b day.

To say it wasnt a success is putting it mildly!

First day not too bad but he got very upset when I picked him up. 2nd time he cried when I left. 3rd time he vomited all over himself as soon as we got there. He was also waking in the night crying and saying he didnt want to go. So....we took him out.

Fast forward to now.....we are trying him again 2/3 x mornings per week at a smaller nursery with much higher key worker/child ratio.

It was his first day yesterday...went ok I thought. They are happy for me to stay for a while to settle him and I stayed for nearly an hour yesterday (mostly he was playing outside and I tried not to be intrusive) I left and he was fine. He was there for over a hour on his own and although he didnt cry when I picked him up he was very anxious to leave.

He then told me last night that he "doesnt want to go back to pre school ever"

Sigh. What am I doing wrong?

Ds1 was the same and - despite my reservations and due to lots of family pressure - I sent him against my better judgement and it was a big mistake...he was miserable and badly bullied and the pre school/school did nothing about it. I moved him eventually but not before the damage had been done

I dont want to make a terrible mistake again.

Ideally in Jan I would like him to be doing 5 x mornings a week to prepare him for reception in Sept but just cant see it happening...I cant keep staying at pre school - sort of defies the point doesnt it?

Feeling pretty low about it all atm

Could you take him to any mother and toddler/playgroups so he can get used to mixing with other children and being around other people?

We live in a small village and the only one is on a day he goes to his GPs

Will just have to keep trying I guess...thanks for replying

I do sympathise but if you want him to settle in, you have to give him a proper chance to do so. I would give lots of gentle reassurance when he gets upset about going to nursery, but ultimately he needs aa firm message that it isn't a choice. Give at least 4-6 weeks and see how he is then. It needs to become part of his routine, and he needs to form bonds with other adults and children for it to be a success.

Not many children take to nursery immediately.

Ha!!! The dc of everyone I know seem to!!!

Ds1 was the same. I was and so was dh...maybe is genetic??

Just to reassure you becarooo, I have been working at a preschool for 6 years now and i that time we have only had one child who totally didn't settle.

Sometimes it does take a while and some children and parents do get distressed but in general after the initial settling in period the upset times become less and less frequent.

There are 2 important things to remember IMO
1] He needs to learn that you are going to come back, even if he is left with GP's it is not the same.

2] He needs to learn that there are people there who will care for him and look after him until you come back.

These 2 things will not happen over night and if you really want him to settle you will have to give it time.

Be kind to yourself and good luck.

My son was the same for the first term he cried didn't look forward to it but the nursery dealt with it very well and when there were organised activities rather than free play he was fine. After holidays he was fine, he loved it, he started to make friends and he gave him the time he needed away from home and the time i needed to spend with his new baby sister. Just stick with it and keep reinforcing the fact you will come back (never be let to pick him up) you need to give it time for him to settle, he will love it eventually and it will allow him to prepare for school (when he actually has to go).

My youngest sister was very clingy (for want of a better word). She is a June birthday. The village we lived in had a playgroup and she was the only child whose mum stayed for the entire time she was there.....every session until she started school. On her first day at school she waved goodbye and went in happily.....so a struggle with pre school does not have to mean a struggle with school.

Thank you for your replies

Didnt start well this morning Tears when I told him it was pre school. Started cyring as soon as we got there...you know that awful shuddery crying where they cant get their breath?

I stayed for 40 mins (he was happily playing with the trains by this time) and I told him I was going to the shops to buy him a chocolate frog. He seemed ok.

Am going back at 11.30 I think (it finishes at 12) but I cant hold out that long!!!

I hate this. I hate it.

Luckily the pre school are happy for me to settle him each morning and for him not to do a full session for a while.

im a reception teacher but in a fs unit mixed with pre school. Seen this a few times and the best solution is to go in, hand him over and leave. Yes he might scream the place down, and you will leave in tears no doubt! You need to give it a few weeks and he will be fine.
In the past one little boy came screaming and would make himself sick. At first the staff agreed with what mum asked - that he could ask for mum to be phoned when he had had enough - well he lasted about 5mins before insisiting his mum was rang. This went on a few days and then mum decided to remove him. She tried again a term later - this time she did as we suggested (as above) and literally dragged him in kicking and screaming, left him with a member of staff and ran. He would be taken to an activity and ususally settled within half an hour at which point a memeber of staff would ring mum to reassure her he was fine. He loved playing on the ride on tractors so for the first few weeks we ensured these were out for him to play with. After a few weeks he started skipping into preschool in excitement and has been fine ever since!
This is just one example but have to say Ive never seen this approach fail, although it is horrible at the time! Those children whose mums insist on hanging about just make the break harder.

I agree with ash979, sometimes you just have to be harsh and go in at the deep end. The staff are very experienced and will be used to settling children in, at DS nursery they don't even let you take them in, you drop them off at the gate an one of the member of staff will take all the kids in.

I help in a pre-school - personally I find mum/dad staying is the wrong thing (although it is their decision and they can do if they like). Having watched it many times, it seems to prolong everything rather than speeding it up by just leaving.

I have also been through this as a parents and I know how hard it is. My dd took around 4-5 weeks to settle properly but then never looked back.

It is really important to seem cheery yourself and to give a happy wave, even if you're anxious inside .

Good luck!

Well, luckily the pre schools approach seems to have worked...he is asking to go back tomorrow! He had lots of fun today and only asked for me once.

I really dont agree with the "just leave them to cry until they vomit and they will get used to it" rationale and I would be very unhappy at my dc being at a school where the teachers/ta's thought that an acceptable way to treat distressed children. Its seems to me to be more about whats easier for the teacher/nursery worker than what is best for that particular child....

Thanks for the replies.

...oh and I speak a a parent who did all you suggest with her first dc - just walk in, leave them screaming and wave.

It did untold damage to my ds1 - which I am still trying to put right - and it sure as hell isnt going to happen to my ds2!!!!!

Really really saddened that this draconian approach is still seen as acceptable tbh Just another example of teachers/nursery staff thinking that every child id the same and every child should be treated the same way

Hi Becaroo - just to support what ash979 said, and I appreciate that at your particular place it didn't work but that might have been because the preschool just wasn't good enough.

I think that if you trust that the staff will comfort your child and look after them and genuinely convey that to your child then proving that by leaving, smiling and letting someone else do the comforting is an important lesson to learn that it's not just me and mum against the world but other people can look after me too and mum trusts them to keep me safe.

If you don't trust them, you need to find somewhere else, of course. I don't really see it as a draconian approach. Sometimes children get themselves really angry and scared that you are leaving and it's not always the right thing to do to go back to them because then we're kind of saying, "you're right, it's not safe - I'll take you home."

Not criticising you or your child, just giving an alternative viewpoint.

I didnt trust my ds1's pre school but I fell for everything that you and others have been saying.... leave them to cry, they will get used to it, let them vomit, we wil clean them up, etc etc I was also under familial pressure to send him and they all said the same too. I was an idiot and I deeply regret it.

Sigh. It doesnt always work. Not all dc are the same.

Anyway, the approach we have taken seems to have worked, so I am thankful for the understanding of the pre school manager. I, personally, would rather send my dc to a pre school/school thats view children as individials and recognises that whats right for some - or even the majority - is not right for all.

(I should also point out that I am a parent helper at the attached infant school and am fully CRB checked so no issues about me being at the pre school)

From 4 years of experience working within a pre-school, the children in general who do not settle well are those whose parents stay for long periods of time over the course of many weeks and do not show signs of reducing how long they stay etc. Also those who have erratic attendance very early on seem to struggle. Often, if there are going to cry, then they will cry when you leave them regardless of whether you have stayed for a minute or an hour. THIS IS NOT THE CASE FOR ALL CHILDREN (before I get shouted at)

We do let parents stay during the session time if they wish and collect early if they need to, we often formulate a plan over say 2 or 3 weeks where the time they stay is reduced. We would also always call a parent if we couldn't settle the child in half an hour. This very rarely happens though. There are cases where having the parents around causes issues ie the DC will not join in at all, will not let staff take them to the toilet or the parent has a baby they ask staff to hold while they see to DC.

The most important thing is for him to learn you will drop him off, give him a kiss and a cuddle then you will definitely be there at home time to collect him.

It is not a case of just leaving them screaming, it would be totally unfair to the DC and the staff. All children are different and many children do 'put on' the tears for the parents and literally stop the second they shut the door. The staff should be experienced enough to know which children would do this and which children need settling in slower.

I would be very wary of a pre-school who did not allow some sort of flexibility as it shows a lack of experience etc, sometimes the parents need easing in gently not just the DCs as its tough leaving your children when you have had them with you for a length of time - there's nothing wrong with that but do try to follow the pre-schools advice if they say they believe your DS is ready to maybe be left a bit quicker etc, you can always say no if it hasn't worked after a while.

Just to say that there are other things you can do to help - if you look on Amazon there are quite a few books about starting nursery.

I also made my son a personalised book about starting nursery and that really seemed to help.

Another thing you could request is a home visit? He may feel closer to his key person if he has had a chance to see him/her alone and on his home turf.

Taking in a transitional object might also be helpful.

I certainly didn't say to leave them to cry until they vomit!

I am not sure who his key worker is yet tbh...

The pre school have been very flexible...for example tomorrow, I have an important GP appt and I will need to pick him up early and they are fine with that.

Should have pointed out earlier that I dont sit with him when I stay I stand/sit at the back of the room and try to be inconspicuous!

I am hoping - and indeed this is the plan I have formulated with the pre school manager - is that I will stay and settle him for a shorter amount of time each day he goes. I will say goodbye to him and leave. I then come back after a longer and longer time each day. Its does seem a faff tbh...it is eating into my time obv, but for my ds2 its important and - fingers crossed - seems to be working.

Wish me luck for tomorrow!!!

The best preschools are the ones which are flexible in their approach to settling in.

We settle children in the way in which the parents want to settle them. We offer advice to parents who have never been through the process but the desision is ultimately theirs.

We have children staying for varying lenghts of time at first and we talk ti parents by phone as we begin to extend the time so that we can adjust the time session by session.

We regularly ask parents to collect their lo's early if they are becoming distressed.

As i said in the 6 years i have been there we have only had one child who didnt settle.

It sounds like your preschool is being flexible beccaroo, i hope they continue to support you and your ds as he starts to settle.

Good luck and have an unmumsnetty hug .

I'm glad your little boy is settling okay.

I would also agree with the people who say just to leave them, though. I genuinely think lots of children settle better if their mum isn't there, hovering. I remember my son being upset at preschool one morning and really crying when I left him. I stood by the door and fished my phone out to call my husband because I was so unhappy, and before i'd even dialled the number the teacher put her head round the door to tell me he was fine.

Also I have NEVER either on this thread or in real life, ever heard anyone suggest leaving a child to cry so much that they're sick.

Neither of my girls really really liked being dropped off. They always preferred being at home. I stuck with it as I had to work. They certainly didn't hate their time but didn't run in joyfully. Things have got better over time. I am matter of fact about it. That said no problems at school but they do enjoy holidays but then who doesn't?
best of luck, as someone once said to me. "It is just a phase" ....still felt horrid though.

Yes it is horrid isnt it?

I am just rubbish at it.

Went today (although I had to pick him up early due to an appt) and he was upset again to begin with..I did my usual of sitting in the corner on my own and left after half an hour. They said he was fine. He certainly seemed so when I pciked him up - he was tazzing around the playground on a bike

The plan is to stay and settle him - hopefully for less and less time - and keep him there til end of session...its been a bit disjointed this week as I have had 2 appts that I had to go to which couldnt be avoided

Thanks for the replies...its oddly nice to know I am not alone...everyone elses child seems to take it all in their stride!

My dd2 hated the preschool stage, everyone else skipped in while she dragged her feet and would rejoice on a non nursery day. She hated noise, she hated being away from me, she hated the other children, especially the boys.

Even a year ago I was discussing with the teacher how on earth she would cope with school, they thought there could be big problems.

Fast forward a year, next door classroom but one, she loves reception, has done since the moment she started, her best friend is a boy, and when she vomitted one morning she spent the next 48 hours begging to be allowed to go in because the 48 hr sickness policy was 'disrupting her learning'.

Hopefully he will begin to settle more easily, but it doesn't necessarily follow with them to school.

I hope thats the case with ds2!! Glad your dd is happy now.

He doesnt start schoo l til next sept so hoping he has time to settle by then!!!