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Pregnancy choices

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Original poster

Abortion @ 22 weeks

90 replies

difficultchoicem · 03/05/2024 13:34

I'm really struggling with a decision here.

I have an appointment booked with the hospital next week for the pre-assessment and the 1st appointment to prepare for the surgical abortion.

I am financially strapped. And originally baby's father was going to help out, he has now made it clear he won't.

The information hospital has provided me with has detailed every step, which includes the likelihood (given my gestation) of foeticide. I didn't know about this before and only when she mentioned it on the phone and in the information they provided for me to read over.

That's the main issue I'm struggling with. I think if they hadn't mentioned that I wouldn't be dwelling on the morality of this. Has anyone been through this?

I already regret not dealing with this much earlier on, but things have changed dramatically.

OP posts:
JadeSheep · 03/05/2024 14:40

Bearbun · 03/05/2024 14:09

OP, honestly, in your position, I wouldn't go through with it. I work with women post-abortively (which admittedly skews my perception, because the ones who don't need support afterwards don't come to me) and the ones who really struggle afterwards are the ones who weren't 100% sure of the morality of it, who felt pressured into it by people or circumstances, and/or who abort later in the pregnancy and have to deliver a fully-formed baby. I imagine the information you will have received from the hospital will have mentioned something like "low level feelings of sadness" as a risk following the procedure, but I see women who are still having vivid nightmares years later, who can't bring themselves to hold other babies in their family, who have developed eating disorders or PTSD.
The reality of a second-trimester abortion is that you will have to labour and will deliver a baby that looks like a perfectly-formed baby. If you don't want to see it, the midwives that deliver it will do their utmost to make sure you don't, but it's not always possible to prevent the woman catching a glimpse anyway. If you do choose to see or hold the baby, the injection site from the feticide will be visible as a tiny hole.
I would really encourage you to explore other options, for your own mental health. As PP have said, the dad can't just opt out of supporting you. Alternatively, there are many, many couples who would love to adopt your baby and give it a loving home.

Yeah I agree with this. I've had an abortion and zero regrets because it was MY choice, 100%. When someone ever asks about abortion I always say it's got to be without external pressure.

Babyboomtastic · 03/05/2024 14:40

notanotherrokabag · 03/05/2024 14:38

The chance of life with no disability at this gestation is almost zero

Show quote history

Where is your evidence for this?

Arewethebadguys · 03/05/2024 14:41

Ponderingwindow · 03/05/2024 14:03

Since you are here asking, I will say that I personally would only have an abortion for medical reasons at 22 weeks. Adoption would be my preferred pathway to not raising a child that late into gestation.

This. No judgement OP, just make sure you are 100% certain of your decision.

WhatThenEh · 03/05/2024 14:47

This reply has been deleted

This post has been withdrawn at the request of the user.

ChickpeaPie · 03/05/2024 14:51

It’s irrelevant really what the chances of survival are at 22 weeks, she’s not in threatened preterm labour, chances are it would be a full term pregnancy if she continues

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 03/05/2024 14:53

Do you have family OP, would they support you if you told them what was going on?

notanotherrokabag · 03/05/2024 14:59

Babyboomtastic · 03/05/2024 14:40

Where is your evidence for this?

Show quote history

There's a fair amount of data - couple of examples - in this study, the median number who either died or had neurodisability was 99% at 22 weeks and 98% at 23 weeks. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23733804/

This is more optimistic and says that 4.1% at 22 weeks will survive to age 25 with no neurological disability. https://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(19)30964-3/fulltext

It's a pretty grim outlook. And of course this is only if you have access to the highest quality neonatal intensive care for several months.

notanotherrokabag · 03/05/2024 15:00

OP - ignore those saying they would go for adoption. No-one can know what they would do in that situation.

MyRamone · 03/05/2024 15:04

I'm so sorry you're in this position, OP. It may help to sit down and work out the position you'd be in with work, support and finances if you went through with the pregnancy, to see whether you could make it, and if you'd actually want to live in that position. A lot of people are focusing on the viability of the foetus here and access to (minimal) benefits etc as justification for keeping your baby but would that be the life you'd want?

I have a friend who had a termination at 19 weeks - her partner relapsed into drugs and she knew she wouldn't manage alone and he'd never be reliable. She went on to have another much wanted baby with a new partner a couple of years after and didn't have any life changing regrets etc - it just had to happen that way. I'm not sure living a life of grinding poverty and zero support is somehow morally better than ending a pregnancy.

Babyboomtastic · 03/05/2024 15:24

notanotherrokabag · 03/05/2024 14:59

There's a fair amount of data - couple of examples - in this study, the median number who either died or had neurodisability was 99% at 22 weeks and 98% at 23 weeks. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23733804/

This is more optimistic and says that 4.1% at 22 weeks will survive to age 25 with no neurological disability. https://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(19)30964-3/fulltext

It's a pretty grim outlook. And of course this is only if you have access to the highest quality neonatal intensive care for several months.

Show quote history

Thanks. I'm certainly not denying that there is a substantial risk of some disability, just that it's not as dire as you've made out. You make it the likelihood of being disability free is virtually zero.

I think some caution should be applied to the studies you've shared. The first one, with the 99% you've quoted, has a very broad definition of disability, which would include even needing glasses! The second is very interesting, and I'd like to see the full article really to see the breakdown in numbers between autism, low IQ and cerebral palsy, and their relative severity. Also, it would be increasing to see how the numbers have changed over time, because some of the kids on that study would be 40 now, and this area of medicine has come a long way since then.

The conclusion I'm coming to is that at 22w there is a reasonable, albeit not high (28%) chance of survival, though there will likely be some long term disability ranging from very mild to severe.

This side quest isn't helping the OP anyway, but I felt like it was misleading to leave it that there is zero chance of survival at this age. That's plainly not the case anymore.

notanotherrokabag · 03/05/2024 15:25

Babyboomtastic · 03/05/2024 15:24

Thanks. I'm certainly not denying that there is a substantial risk of some disability, just that it's not as dire as you've made out. You make it the likelihood of being disability free is virtually zero.

I think some caution should be applied to the studies you've shared. The first one, with the 99% you've quoted, has a very broad definition of disability, which would include even needing glasses! The second is very interesting, and I'd like to see the full article really to see the breakdown in numbers between autism, low IQ and cerebral palsy, and their relative severity. Also, it would be increasing to see how the numbers have changed over time, because some of the kids on that study would be 40 now, and this area of medicine has come a long way since then.

The conclusion I'm coming to is that at 22w there is a reasonable, albeit not high (28%) chance of survival, though there will likely be some long term disability ranging from very mild to severe.

This side quest isn't helping the OP anyway, but I felt like it was misleading to leave it that there is zero chance of survival at this age. That's plainly not the case anymore.

Show quote history

Fair enough could have chosen words more carefully. It's a pretty grim picture though, particularly if you work with the adults who live with the long-term sequelae of prematurity. And as you say, irrelevant to the OP.

Babyboomtastic · 03/05/2024 15:43

notanotherrokabag · 03/05/2024 15:25

Fair enough could have chosen words more carefully. It's a pretty grim picture though, particularly if you work with the adults who live with the long-term sequelae of prematurity. And as you say, irrelevant to the OP.

Edited
Show quote history

I have glasses. That's nothing grim about that!

I think it's amazing how many very early babies are being saved now, many with no, or only mild disabilities. Medical science is doing amazing things for these babies. Not grim by a long shot.

Fury from Gladiator even, deaf because of her prematurity, but otherwise stronger and fitter than most of us could dream to be.

Anyway, I hope the OP manages to come to a decision that she's content with. If you want to continue this debate perhaps we should take it elsewhere as it is quite interesting, albiet largely irrelevant here.

Newsenmum · 03/05/2024 15:51

ChickpeaPie · 03/05/2024 14:19

It would be live because at 22 weeks babies are born breathing and the parents have a choice whether to save them. (After 24 weeks there is a legal
requirement to resuscitate, before then it’s a joint decision between parents and neonatologists)
So terminations at this gestation involve a potassium injection through the mums abdomen into the babies heart to kill the baby. Then the labour would be induced with medication.

Show quote history

Wait so there is an option to induce baby live and give it up for adoption? I had no idea

LIZS · 03/05/2024 15:56

@Newsenmum no, it means the pg goes to term then give up for adoption. Surely no-one elects to induce early and give the baby life support unless there is an imminent danger to the mother, nor would it be professionally ethical. .

Hibye23289 · 03/05/2024 15:57

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

fuckssaaaaake · 03/05/2024 16:22

There's some very naive people on here who think CMS can do much if they choose to be a lying awkward twat

WibblyWobblyWeeble · 03/05/2024 16:46

fuckssaaaaake · 03/05/2024 16:22

There's some very naive people on here who think CMS can do much if they choose to be a lying awkward twat

Cms do precisely nothing.

Newsenmum · 03/05/2024 16:53

LIZS · 03/05/2024 15:56

@Newsenmum no, it means the pg goes to term then give up for adoption. Surely no-one elects to induce early and give the baby life support unless there is an imminent danger to the mother, nor would it be professionally ethical. .

I don’t really get ops comment about how abortion would suddenly be foeticide but there we go! Awful situation regardless. I hope you work things out op.

Newsenmum · 03/05/2024 16:53

WibblyWobblyWeeble · 03/05/2024 16:46

Cms do precisely nothing.

Show quote history

Cms is who exactly?

notanotherrokabag · 03/05/2024 17:04

Newsenmum · 03/05/2024 16:53

Cms is who exactly?

Show quote history

Child maintenance service

WibblyWobblyWeeble · 03/05/2024 17:17

Bearbun · 03/05/2024 14:09

OP, honestly, in your position, I wouldn't go through with it. I work with women post-abortively (which admittedly skews my perception, because the ones who don't need support afterwards don't come to me) and the ones who really struggle afterwards are the ones who weren't 100% sure of the morality of it, who felt pressured into it by people or circumstances, and/or who abort later in the pregnancy and have to deliver a fully-formed baby. I imagine the information you will have received from the hospital will have mentioned something like "low level feelings of sadness" as a risk following the procedure, but I see women who are still having vivid nightmares years later, who can't bring themselves to hold other babies in their family, who have developed eating disorders or PTSD.
The reality of a second-trimester abortion is that you will have to labour and will deliver a baby that looks like a perfectly-formed baby. If you don't want to see it, the midwives that deliver it will do their utmost to make sure you don't, but it's not always possible to prevent the woman catching a glimpse anyway. If you do choose to see or hold the baby, the injection site from the feticide will be visible as a tiny hole.
I would really encourage you to explore other options, for your own mental health. As PP have said, the dad can't just opt out of supporting you. Alternatively, there are many, many couples who would love to adopt your baby and give it a loving home.

I absolutely did not have to labour or give birth, at 23+5.
The foetus was removed via suction.
I'm purposely not describing the full process, so as not to upset anyone, but I'm well aware of it, and what happened.

Still, no regrets.

Viviennemary · 03/05/2024 17:40

Adoption should be a consideration under the circumstances you describe. There is no reason for the abortion to be delayed until the baby could almost survive at this stage.

LadySugar · 03/05/2024 18:09

notanotherrokabag · 03/05/2024 15:00

OP - ignore those saying they would go for adoption. No-one can know what they would do in that situation.

^Ignore those saying something I, random internet person, disagree with.

Don't ignore the ones telling you to go for a termination. Only the ones I tell you to ignore. ^

It is completely sensible to suggest adoption. Most people do it see it as a viable option, particularly if they're only in early pregnancy, in which case it makes sense to just have an abortion. Here, there is no perfect outcome. Adoption is a very viable option here.

LadySugar · 03/05/2024 18:11

That should say do not see it (adoption) as viable.

In a usual unwanted pregnancy it adds more trauma. Here, it's probably less trauma.

WibblyWobblyWeeble · 03/05/2024 18:40

Viviennemary · 03/05/2024 17:40

Adoption should be a consideration under the circumstances you describe. There is no reason for the abortion to be delayed until the baby could almost survive at this stage.

I found out I was pregnant at 19+1, I was made to wait until 23+5.
It wasn't my choice to wait.