20weeks - really unsure what to do

[maxbaby]

Hi all. Not sure if I'm after advice or just need a place to talk and not be judged.

I had a DD 7 months ago with someone I was sleeping with. We've been friends for years but both wasn't looking for a relationship so was happy with a FWB type of set up. We'd been sleeping with each other since early 2019 and got pregnant last year August. It was such a shock to both of us, originally he wanted a termination (I didn't) so we got round to the idea of having a baby together.

Fast forward to now and he's a great dad to DD. Tbh he's a way better dad than I thought he might be when I first found out I was pregnant! He's a great person too but you know when someone is kind of stuck in their way? Previous to having a baby, he had no responsibilities AT ALL. As in, his sister would pay for his phone contract, his mum would still do his washing and fold his clothes. It was a mess. (I'm early 20s, he's mid 20s btw!) I find it really hard to do basic things such as communicate if he's going to be late to my house or anything that a normal person is capable of doing.

He's never been in a relationship before and hasn't worked since finishing uni a couple of years ago. I find both of these things quite noticeable and it's as if he's living in another universe when he's unable to do basic things. I think it's just because he doesn't care but that's another thread for another day.

I'm now pregnant again! I'm 20 weeks pregnant and I know most people have an abortion in the early weeks but I've just been so confused. I've realised I really can't rely on him the way I should be able too when having two kids. Today has been my third time contacting BPAS in this pregnancy and I'm just not sure if it's so cruel to have an abortion at this stage? I've always been pro choice, I just never thought this may be a choice I may have to make. So many of my friends and family already know about my pregnancy and I'll be incredibly judged if I have an abortion.

I just don't know what to do. I'm not sure what I'm really asking here but I feel as if I'm always trying to play happy families with him. You can't force a person to change but I don't understand why he won't want to change his ways after having a baby. I guess I just needed to vent. As guilty as I'd feel for having an abortion, I think later down the line I'd feel even worse for bringing a baby into this already rubbish situation.
Thanks for reading so far if you did

OP I feel for you so much.

I had / have two very young children close together but I do have the support of a strong relationship so it’s not the same. It is very hard though.

I just wanted to say, if you do go ahead with the pregnancy please make sure you’ve got support in place. Your midwife will be able to help you with this. I know you aren’t considering adoption but perhaps there are other services in place to help young mums in those early days. Please be open with your midwife so that you can access anything that will make this easier for you.

Wishing you the best OP

OP first off you need to ditch this man child. He his making the situation a lot worse.

To PP saying its wrong to say you have miscarried when you have an abortion - not it isn't. Its wrong to judge a woman who has an abortion, and its wrong to tell a woman whose terminating a pregnancy that she owes anyone else anything.
Its a very difficult decision, especially at this stage, and women who make this choice should absolutely deal with how they tell people in the way that best supports themselves. Termination at this stage can cause real grief and no women should feel she has to put herself forward to face judgement, or even the suspicion that others are judging, at such a vulnerable time.

Anyway OP, given how you feel about having an abortion it doesn't look like a viable option for you. I hope everything works out for you. I hope your family are able to offer more support.

It does sound as if you would want the baby if he was doing a better job, that with the fact that at this stage you would actively have to labour and give birth to your baby which would be very traumatic would suggest having the baby might be the better option. No doubt about it you're in for a rough few years when they're tiny but think 5 years from now, you could be free of this man child and with two kids happy as anything.

Would you be over the trauma of a late term abortion by 5 years? Hard to say, you might be doing really well or you might look at your daughter and wonder what might have been.

Wishing you lots of luck and good vibes either way; you're in a really difficult position

@PinkPlantCase thank you SO much for this comment.

I’d stop worrying about the dad. Assume you’re going to do everything as a single parent.

I keep telling myself to approach this situation as if I'm a single parent but it's so difficult. Can I really be a single parent with 2 under 2s, that sounds impossible and so so difficult. I agree with what you've said about it being a short term thing. That's definitely true yet my mind seems to be obsessing over the period of when they'll both be young.

I'm on maternity leave but will be leaving my job as they only offer full time positions. You're not able to drop days and work part time which is a huge inconvenience. No qualifications in anything but I currently work in head office so I have a good experience due to previous managerial roles within retail.
I'm currently on UC because SMP is so low and I have rent to pay. I'm private renting but I'm eligible for UC to pay the entire amount.

Circumstance wise we'll be okay. My family will help and chip in where necessary. I guess what I'm worried about is the day to day managing and my mental health when the new baby comes along

Just to add to what previous posters have said - you will have to give birth to your baby. Don't underestimate the love/ grief that you will feel for them. Make sure you do factor this into any decision you might make.

@Ohpulltheotherone thank you so much. I'll definitely try and be as open with my midwife as possible.

I agree with the comments saying to ditch the man child. I've been trying to tell myself to look at him as someone who comes to see DD and not someone I rely on as my support system day in, day out. It is really difficult though. I also suffer from terrible PGP so some days I can't even walk. How can I not rely on him when I'm in these conditions? It's just hell.

@stillmorerubbish I definitely agree with you there. I thought about all the family members who would be quick to judge but who wouldn't be there helping out when I'm struggling. Thank you for all your wise and helpful words, really appreciate the kindness you've given me x

Ffs the previous poster re the baby being born alive. Please tell me hospitals don’t carry out infanticide

*No doubt about it you're in for a rough few years when they're tiny but think 5 years from now, you could be free of this man child and with two kids happy as anything.

Hard to say, you might be doing really well or you might look at your daughter and wonder what might have been.*

@nellly both of these statements are so very true. Thank you so much x

I'll just have to think of it as me and my kids instead of the four of us at a little family. Even though I've known their dad for so long, I think I feel embarrassed having two kids with him and I can't even rely on him. I feel pathetic and a lot of his actions are feeding into why I want an abortion.
Now I know that I'd have to deliver the baby, I don't think this is something I can do. I just feel like I've messed up my life before I've even started

Are you not willing to consider adoption? If you don't want a abortion but honestly feel can't cope with 2 so young this is a viable, if hard emotionally, option to take.

I suppose now you are in this situation
.. Which is the last bad option for you emotionally

I think you're stronger than you think you are.

Will you be ok financially? Could man child have the older child at his mothers house one night a week?

I think it may be a tough few years but then it'll be plain sailing after that.
Oh and please stop sleeping with him OP, he's no good!

Of course it is your choice and such a very hard one but I imagine you may have some severe trauma from aborting this late as baby is fully formed. Not a guilt trip just an actual observation of how difficult it will beat this stage. So sorry you are having to make this decision xx

@happytoday73 I really don't think I could let my baby be adopted. I can't imagine living knowing I have a baby alive somewhere but I'm not in their life. All the choices I could take are so so hard to think about. Even keeping the baby seems near enough impossible to me. I feel as if I'll just have to 'get on with it' because I've left it so late.

@Sleepyquest thank you for that comment, I really appreciate it. We'd be okay financially, may be a bit of a struggle until I'm back working but won't be the end of the world. I think that's a good idea regarding man child(😂) taking older DD to his mum's house once a week. That may make a big difference in the grand scheme of things.
I definitely will stop sleeping with him too!
It's frustrating because when we get along we're great but I really can't ignore the unwillingness to make changes in his life even AFTER having a baby

@Athomewiththehales89 I agree. I didn't know much about abortions so I had no clue of the process and what happens so late at this stage

Honestly this man has no business staying at your home and FGS never have sex with him again.

It seems as though you feel that going through with the pregnancy is your least worst option and that is 100% your choice. You will manage, but you need to draw boundaries sharply with this guy. Put in a claim for maintenance, make it clear that you will make the DC available for contact somewhere other than your home at certain dates and times, or perhaps at your home for short stints with the newborn - you can get advice on that here. But he is not a partner or an emotional support for you and you need to set yourself up going forward as a single parent who doesn't rely on him.

When I got pregnant with my baby I researched abortion. The whole way through the pregnancy I wasn't sure I wanted a baby at all. But I didn't want to have an abortion either. What was putting me off was a mixture of leftover feelings about previous miscarriages (a self preservation sort of thing) and not wanting to go through the early days with a newborn again.

Well it turns out the second was way easier than the first. Much less of a shock to the system and you just get on with it. The only time I feel I'm struggling to cope is when I have to do bedtime for 2 on my own but they drop off eventually and it passes. She's 4 months now and, along with her brother, the absolute light of my life. God I love her so much. Having the older one running about keeps her entertained so it's less intense than when you just have one.

Im not telling you not to have an abortion. Im just saying it won't be exactly the same as with your first - you aren't starting from scratch. You're well versed in nappies and bottles and all the rest of it now. And having two to play together is a really big bonus.

@stalkersaga I really won't! I think this is also where the issues lie, I'm not sure how to put the correct boundaries in place. He doesn't care about anything anyway so doesn't care if I have boundaries or if I don't have them. He doesn't work so how can I claim child maintenance? I think that's a good idea regarding time and a place but I'm not sure where we could meet. He even has a key to my flat, I'm taking that back now as he continuously takes the piss.
I agree wholeheartedly with the last sentence, I guess it is what it is!

@Malibuismysecrethome

Ffs the previous poster re the baby being born alive. Please tell me hospitals don’t carry out infanticide

Babies born to late term abortions, such as 20 weeks have a reasonable likelihood of being born alive, yes, if their heart is not stopped prior to the termination. If they are born alive, they won't stay alive, they will die from being premature.

@SmellyOldOwls

When I got pregnant with my baby I researched abortion. The whole way through the pregnancy I wasn't sure I wanted a baby at all. But I didn't want to have an abortion either. What was putting me off was a mixture of leftover feelings about previous miscarriages (a self preservation sort of thing) and not wanting to go through the early days with a newborn again.

Well it turns out the second was way easier than the first. Much less of a shock to the system and you just get on with it. The only time I feel I'm struggling to cope is when I have to do bedtime for 2 on my own but they drop off eventually and it passes. She's 4 months now and, along with her brother, the absolute light of my life. God I love her so much. Having the older one running about keeps her entertained so it's less intense than when you just have one.

Im not telling you not to have an abortion. Im just saying it won't be exactly the same as with your first - you aren't starting from scratch. You're well versed in nappies and bottles and all the rest of it now. And having two to play together is a really big bonus.

@SmellyOldOwls this sounds exactly like me! I'm still unsure about whether I want the baby but I've really struggled with possibly getting an abortion. I really don't think I could live with myself but I really don't know how I'd cope as a single parent.

Aw that's so nice and encouraging to hear that you kind of just get on with it. Are you also a single parent and if you are, do you have any sort of support?

OP, I have had an abortion (at nine weeks) and I am firmly pro choice. But I wanted to say that, as someone who had an early abortion which in itself was a lot more painful and traumatic than I was expecting it to be, I don't think I could have an abortion at 20 weeks and recover from that. It's a completely different prospect, involving giving birth to a recognisable baby, and it would, I personally think, be traumatic - and you are already carrying trauma from the birth of your DD.

Hope you're OK. Good luck whatever you decide.

If he's on benefits you won't get much in maintenance (I think it's £7 a week), but it's something, and it also helps to make the boundaries clear.

You can post on one of the other boards if you want to get advice on what contact pattern to offer to him. If he's too ineffective to get a job it seems unlikely he'll take you to court, but if you have established a reasonable pattern of availability for contact, whether he takes it up or not, you have done all you can do.

If he has a key, seriously, get your locks changed. You don't know how many copies he could have made.

It's not your job to figure out where he takes the DC for contact (although while the new baby is very small it probably does need to be little and often and at least partially at your home). That's his problem.

@ikeabiscuitlover

OP, I have had an abortion (at nine weeks) and I am firmly pro choice. But I wanted to say that, as someone who had an early abortion which in itself was a lot more painful and traumatic than I was expecting it to be, I don't think I could have an abortion at 20 weeks and recover from that. It's a completely different prospect, involving giving birth to a recognisable baby, and it would, I personally think, be traumatic - and you are already carrying trauma from the birth of your DD.

Hope you're OK. Good luck whatever you decide.

Oh no really?! I know everyone's experiences are different but I have a friend who had an abortion. Her cramping and bleeding was so bad that she got admitted into hospital. Maybe this is ignorant of me but I really never thought it could be as traumatic as it sounds. So sorry you had that experience and thank you for keeping it real. I definitely couldn't deal with any additional trauma so there's no way I can give birth to a the baby prematurely. It sounds so so brutal

@stalkersaga he's not on benefits and he gives me £150 a month (he says it's money saved from uni money but who really knows!)

It's actually funny you mentioned him seeing DD elsewhere. I was actually considering saying that to him as he never makes the effort to come on time to see her or come to the house at the time he's said he'll be here by. I was thinking maybe he should pick her up and take her to his mum's everytime he wants to see her but I don't know how practical this is. You're right in saying it's his issue and not mine.
This very much feels like a relationship and I think that's how the lines get blurred. I may take you up on that and post on another board at some point. Thank you x

My daughter has a son who is now 23 months old.

At her eight week check after he was born she was told to arrange an appointment with the nurse dealing with contraception, which she did. This was cancelled due to the first lockdown.

She relied on condoms and the following month found she was expecting. This son was born at 32 wks because of COVID infection. Her sons are only 10 months apart in age.

She has three children (oldest is 5 yrs) and her partner left because she refused to abort her last pregnancy.

She's a single mother - working part-time, on universal credits, she has support from me whenever she wants and she's actually doing pretty fantastically. She's a fabulous mother.

She was frightened for the future throughout her last pregnancy and said that she felt she was 'drowning' and couldn't cope.

We've rallied around her and we've pulled her through her darkest days.

She's now the happiest she's ever been - she absolutely dotes on her children.
She's looking forwards to a lovely Christmas - her baby was in NICU last Christmas.

Looking ahead - she can't wait to start work full time when the children are a little older.

I'm not saying that your life won't be hard - but it will eventually get much easier. I'd seriously reconsider your current relationship - it's not good for children to be continually let down. My husband was let down by his parents promises and I'm sure this has shaped a good part of his personality (negatively).

@MyOtherCarIsAPorsche what a lovely mother / grandmother you are ! They are very blessed to have you for sure .
That message melted my heart & I hope it give OP some peace knowing that she’s not alone , it’s happened before to people & they’ve come out the other side happier than ever x

Ffs the previous poster re the baby being born alive. Please tell me hospitals don’t carry out infanticide

Infanticide is only if it's the mother doing it. If the doctor did it, is would be murder.

But not taking any action to save it's life, isn't considered murder, so no, it wouldn't. It would be a difficult thing for the staff to deal with, and it's parents would have to register it's death.

As far as I'm aware, the injection is almost universally used, though it might not be where there is a desire for the child to be born alive briefly for cuddles etc, with a TFMR.