Big fat hand hold please - termination

[bornninthe80s]

Hi all. I posted on here yesterday worrying about whether I could go through with my second pregnancy (I'm 40 and have an almost 2 year old, and have some past MH issues).

Had some amazingly supportive replies and am so grateful for that. My husband and I talked into the hours about things and as time has been passing, I've been getting more moments of "I could do this".

But everything came crashing down today when I went to an early scan and found out it's fraternal twins. Going from two to three is a ridiculous game changer and I can't see how I can continue with the pregnancy.

My (first and so far only) DC was born at 34+6 (no idea why but I had a low papp-a result which resulted in a CVS at 13 weeks) and still sleeps on a breathing monitor (just to give you an idea of how paranoid I am) - I spent most of the first year terrified of SIDS.

Obviously since seeing the scan I wish with everything that it was a singleton pregnancy as is sort of wrapped my head around that. But I'm already researching all the risks of twins and know that having 3 under 3 would be the breaking of me (even if all of us survived the pregnancy and birth).

Having a surgical termination in a couple of weeks and I'm just beside myself. If anyone can help that would be amazing. I can't talk to my mum about this and I really want to

Didn't want to read and run but I'm no expert. Firstly there is no wrong answer and you should do what you think is best. My kids are a bit older now (nearly 7 and 5) and I have a lot of friends who have now gone for the third, or like you - twins the second time (one even went for a third and had triplets!) what I would say is that things reeeeeaally settle down after those first few years, if I had two 4 year olds it wouldn't make much difference. I think those with an only child have found lockdown harder tbh.
Are you in a position to afford help? As in a couple of hours a day mothers help so you could sleep and they could do childcare and housework? This would be a necessity if I was in your shoes. On the flip side of worrying about baby, having another takes the pressure off so you'll worry less about your first born!
So I guess my point is - it will be three extremely hard years (with magic thrown in) that you will need help with but longer term it's manageable /fun. BUT it's a lot to put yourself /your marriage /your child through and you are perfectly reasonable to choose not to do that. I hope this essay doesn't offend, I can remember all too clearly the horrors of the early years xx

Couldn’t read and run OP

I’ve never been in your position so I can’t even imagine how you are feeling. Would it help to talk about what aspect you are struggling with? The physical aspect, emotional, both? Are you confident in your decision or would you like to talk through it more?

Twins at 40, with a toddler? That is going to be very hard.
Sure you’ll get people that say they managed and maybe they did, but if I were in your shoes I would terminate too.
One to two children, maybe. One to three would not be in my life plan.

@RunningFromInsanity I know! That's how I'm feeling

This decision is all yours. However, if it was me I could not live with a twin termination.

Do what you think is best for you. Sending you lots of positive energy 🙏🏽

Yes I think it would @Babs709 - I've never had a termination before so am terrified of that hence choosing surgical so someone else had to deal with what comes out.

Emotionally, well I never even thought I wanted kids until I turned 37.. then had my amazing DC at 38. I thought I wouldn't be a good mum due to past anxieties and MH issues but have turned out to be an excellent mum (not including the last two weeks I've known about this pregnancy, my little one is getting increasingly frustrated with lack of attention).

The mum in me wishes I could go through it, but jumping from 1 to 3 may be the end of my MH. I struggled a lot with those early days of no sleep x

@Newuser123123 thank you, I've read and re-read your post - it's exactly what your best friend should say. Thank you so much. I do wish I could do it. I just can't see how - feeling very down x

@Happyalwayswinning this is what I'm worried about, that I won't be able to live with myself. I'm calling the pregnancy crisis helpline again tomorrow. I don't think my marriage and MH will survive twins and have to think about the child I already have. That's what I'm telling myself anyway x

I’m asking this very gently, but how many weeks along are you? If very early, then a disappearing twin is very common. Obviously have to weigh that up with a later procedure, but with a surgical at this stage there isn’t much in it, physically at least.

Oh lovely, I do feel for you, such a hard decision. What's your husband like? We had to do a shift pattern in the early days as we had a non sleeper so we needed to be a team.
If your husband is on board and you can afford help (I really think this is an absolute non negotiable - you can get a mother's help for minimum wage or au pair for less) then think about 5 years down the line what your life would be like as a family of 5, what would the school run be like, can you both drive, afford after school clubs / holidays etc, would this be a happy life for you, your husband and your current child?
You can pay /drink/moan and eat chocolate your way through the first few difficult years but if extra children is really not in your life plan you might struggle longer term.
You won't believe me as I was a total wreck with small children, PTSD from childbirth, total zombie for a couple of years but I have blinked and they will both be at school ft in a couple of weeks, they play the piano and do complex mental arithmetic and most importantly they can work the TV by themselves! Bereft I have bought pet chickens to keep us company now!

The second time it's just easier, I still have the anxiety with my first, but my second I don't feel it. I can't really explain, I certainly adore them both. Going from 1 to 3 children yes it will be harder than 1 to 2, but I don't think you'll be overlooked for help. You have the option don't panic, there are things you can buy to make your life easier if you go ahead.

6 weeks tomorrow @AnneBullen - still quite early. I've actually been wishing for a vanishing twin as horrible as that sounds because that would mean Mother Nature was at work rather than me 'playing god' (please nobody pro choice take offence as I'm very VERY pro choice) ... but then I've started to read up about 'surviving' twins being more likely to have birth defects etc, and my own sister was a surviving twin and was diagnosed with a huge malignant brain tumour at 18 (she's still here at 36, but with reduced life quality although she has independence, drives etc, her health is poor though) - it was heartbreaking.

Yes this is what my head is like... thinking about all the negative outcomes... it's awful. My daughter has been so sweet and tender with me (probably first time she's seen me cry) which has helped a lot.

Thanks everyone for talking to me. So so hard to talk to people about this x

Hi @bornninthe80s, one thing I'd say is that whichever decision you make, you'll feel better than you do now. It does sound like the indecision is really getting you down, once you know which way you're going you'll have one less thing to think about.
Hand hold here, you're in a really tricky situation.

Thanks so much @DameCelia - you're right. Everything is in limbo at the moment.

I'm no longer wishing for vanishing twin syndrome after reading all the crap on the internet about how psychologically damaged the surviving twin is.

You’ve got to do what is right for your family. Wishing you every strength.

That’s..... interesting. I work in the area and it’s really so so common... and my first had a vanishing twin, he seems fine if a typical weird 9 year old who won’t stop talking about minecraft .

Seriously there is nothing wrong with saying, OK, it’s regretful but this pregnancy isn’t for me. Women do it every day, for disability, because the father is crap, because they haven’t got money, because they are being evicted, because they have hyperemesis, because it’s twins and they only want one.

The reality is that if you couldn’t have a termination for some reason, you would be fine and you would cope and your children would be loved and happy, because that’s what women do. But you do have a choice, and if you do choose to stop the pregnancy and even if you then choose to try again for a singleton, then that’s a pragmatic decision with no shame in it.
Might just be that this pregnancy isn’t the one for you, at this time.

@AnneBullen you've made me cry. Thank you forever for that virtual hug 💙

and for making me realise how silly I'm being about vanishing twins

💕

Hiya, I’m so sorry you are going through this.

I got pregnant by accident when I had a 10 month old and a two year old - I spent a week in a head spin feeling absolutely terrible not knowing what was the best thing to do. It was one of the worst periods of my life and still chills me to think about it.

However, I got some good advice from a friend who said you need to talk about it and talk about it and then talk about it more and read everything you can and then make your decision. I did this and during this reading I read that almost everyone is happy with the choice they make, and that making the decision is the worst bit.

Massive love to you and I’m so sorry you are going through this. Threads like this always take me back.

Oh OP, I so wish this was one of those times someone could just tell you what to do. It sounds like the big question is: if you terminate, will you regret it? And then to make it harder, there is no big question the other way. There are a million little questions. Will anxiety cripple you, will your babies have health issues, will your marriage survive, will you ever get to sleep again, will your current DC get the attention she needs...? And I guess ultimately, even outside of not knowing the answers, you’d never be able to answer every single one of these millIon questions. There’s just too many of them.

Ultimately... do you wish there was a way you could magically cope the baby/toddler stage? Can you picture a life with three children, teenagers, adults, adults with their own babies etc.?

And if you can picture it, do you want it? If the answer is no, that’s not something you can picture and you don’t want it (even if you don’t want it because you think you’d always struggle), then I think the termination is the right thing and you need to focus your energy on coping with that the best you can.

If the answer is yes, that you can picture your family life a few years down the line and you like what you see (and importantly that you think you’d be happy), then I think the next step is to work out if there is any way you can battle through the baby/toddler years. What support is available etc. What would you need to put in place.

I’ve made that sound like a very practical decision and I appreciate it’s an emotional one, I’m just trying to break it down I think. Hope it makes sense.

Hi @bornninthe80s just read your post on my original post about falling pregnant with a third and not knowing what to do. I should reply on that post as the OP, but I couldn't read your thread here and run. I'm so so sorry you're in this position. Just when you think it couldn't get harder, you find out a bombshell like this.

I think you've had some lovely supportive posts on here and I'd like to offer my support too. Having been through the last 6 weeks of absolute hell trying to work out what to do, I know how you feel. It eats you up. I've decided finally to go ahead with my pregnancy but it's still something I'm coming to terms with and I'm certainly not singing from the rooftops about it! (like I was with my first and second pregnancies).

I will share with you an experience I had which may help, if nothing else just to offer you some solidarity that you're not alone. We TTC for over a year for our first, ended up having IUI fertility treatment and the clinic somewhat bodged my meds and we ended up pregnant with triplets. I was devastated. We were told that triplets would be highly risky and advised to have a selective reduction procedure (partial abortion where they terminate one or more foetuses in order to save the life of the remaining in a high order multiple pregnancy). We could "reduce" to twins or singleton. Obviously it would have also been our choice to continue with triplets and I highly respect those women who do, but I knew from the outset that wasn't for me, the risks were too high and I couldn't imagine it.

We couldn't have the procedure until 12 weeks as before then, it is not possible - they have to inject a chemical directly into the heart of the foetus(es) without risking the remaining ones. Those were the worst 6 weeks of my life. Knowing I was carrying foetuses which I would not keep. I detached entirely. Completely switched off from the pregnancy. Hated my life and everything and went into a deep depression. Thank God for my amazing DH that's all I can say.

We battled for those 6 weeks with the decision do we reduce to twins or singleton. Everything in me told me I wanted to do the best I could to have the best chance of a healthy baby. The doctors recommended go to twins, I just wanted a single baby. In the end, we chose to reduce to a singleton. I left the procedure with a total peace in my heart that I'd Mae the right choice, for me, at that time.

My son was born and he was healthy and is now a beautiful 4 year old, about to start school. For the first 2 years I literally did not look back and barely remembered he was once part of a triplet. For some reason, when I then fell pregnant with my second (planned), I suddenly got hit by huge, huge grief. What had I done? Everywhere I went there were mums pushing twins in prams and I grieved for the "missing" twin, the ghost child that wasn't there. It was horrendous and I had a lot of therapy.

I've come to realise, over the years, that what I experienced wasn't regret - I never ever regretted it as I knew, hand on heart that I made the best choice for me and my son - but the grief was profound.

I'm certainly not telling you this because I want to make you terrified of negative emotions, all I am saying is people go through all sorts of terrible situations, for me, twins was just not something I wanted and that was when I had no children! But then in the years to follow I desperately wished I'd made a difference choice. And now, nearly 5 years on, I realise I made the right one, I've grieved and I'm at peace. Plus I wouldn't have my gorgeous DS2 if I'd made different choices.

If you terminate because twins aren't right - that's totally okay. If you go ahead, you WILL be fine. As other posters have said, it can be daunting considering another baby when you have just the one and then twins doubles the worry! But you WILL be fine and you will cope and every mum I know who had one DC and then twins says it's worked out well and the older DC loves their younger siblings. But it will be hard work and you will need some support.

Whichever way you go, know that you make the best choice for you and your family, and please allow yourself time to either come to terms with and accept continuing the pregnancy, or allow yourself space and time to accept that it's not right and time to grieve.

Sorry for the ramble. Sending you a virtual hug as I know exactly where you are right now and it's hell. Whichever decision you make, you'll feel so much better when it's made. xxxxxx

Also, I literally OBSESSED about the health risks of twins, I read every single thing out there online and it became quite damaging for me. In reality, yes the risks are higher but when looking at the stats (eg I obsessed that the risk of cerebral palsy was so much higher) what I didn't take into account is a lot of the increased risk is based on identical twins, not fraternal twins.

That's not to say that it's not a riskier pregnancy, it is, but perhaps not as much as you are worrying about. It obviously depends on your attitude to risk but the great majority of twins to my knowledge are born healthy.

Also I've not heard anything about the remaining twin being unhealthy - but I could have missed something! I heard that something crazy like 1 in 10 pregnancies or even more start as twins but one twin vanishes but people never know as they don't have a scan until 12 weeks.

I also spent the entire time pregnant with triplets praying that 2 wouldn't make it naturally so I didn't have to decide. And this current pregnancy, I spent the first month praying I'd miscarry. Which I feel so guilty about as I've had 2 mc and they were so awful.

Those feelings though are totally normal so please don't feel bad about them. xxx

I'm so sorry you are going through this. Offering you a gentle hug. I can completely understand you wanting a termination. At 40 the chances of a baby being born with an abnormality is about 2%, with twins that increases. I think if you want to go ahead, the potential of having one or two children with additional support needs should be considered.

You are right that your existing child needs to be considered. That is the reason I had a termination a long time ago now (8 years ago). I do not regret it at all, I only regret having to make that decision in the first place. The best of luck to you whatever you decide.

Thank you @Galaboutbal - you're right, the decision is the worst part. I've found myself praying for a vanishing twin without taking into account how that may feel in years to come. The right thing to do for me and my family is to terminate which completely breaks my heart, but I've had a Marie stopes counselling call and she's made me feel a lot better about it. May I ask if you continued with yours? How do you feel?

Very well put @Babs709 and gives a lot of food for thought. I never imagined a big family and thinking of the years it will take to get to independent/adult stage seem too crippling for us. DH and I are solid but we have our issues and I'm not sure I can spread myself thinly enough to keep three kids happy. I worry so much about the effect on my DD who loves lots of love and attention from us both. We are a great tripod.

Not sure I mentioned before but I'm not working atm as left job of over a decade due to discrimination after returning from mat leave part time (got a good settlement but still means I'm unemployed). I do have a self employed fitness teaching job which ironically I'd have to put on hold if going through with pregnancy due to the environment I teach in. The charity I volunteer for have asked me to do some contract work and I had been so excited to get stuck into that. These things make continuing a pregnancy even worse - and a twin pregnancy, well...

@munchymoo thank you so much for empathising with me so deeply and for sharing your story. It sounds like you have really been through the mill and I'm sorry you've also been battling with this decision so recently.

When I first found out I was pregnant, I was completely shocked and unprepared and, as a bit of a control freak (!), that didn't sit right. But I can almost say with my hand on my heart that if this was a singleton pregnancy I would be going ahead, and that makes this choice all the more painful.

I think to keep twins would be a huge gamble with our lives, marriage, finances, daughter's life, practicalities, my physical health, my mental health… The list goes on. If I could turn back the clock I wouldn't have started having kids so late as now I'm mourning for the second child I may never have.

They're sending the meds today so should be able to take those next week rather than waiting until September for a surgical.

Thank you for your support. Posters have been SO kind, I cry at each post xx