too many pregnancy rules?

[snowtinker]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/10318039.stm

What we need are self-esteem classes so that every newly-pregnant woman learns to give a resounding "fuck off" every time she's patronised by someone telling her what she can/cannot eat or drink.

I do however agree with the part which suggests that many women underestimate how much they drink. I've continued drinking as is per normal for me. That is, half a pint of beer once a month of average. That is very different from someone kicking back a bottle of wine a night!

I think most people ignore the rules they don't want to follow. They tend to go with what friends and family did. The number of rules now is just too confusing. Especially when you know a, b & c did x, y & z and their babies were fine.

I think it does cause a problem because there are so many people ignore them all or pick and choose. And some of them, like not smoking in pregnancy, are evidence based and important but it gets lost amongst the hundreds of other rules.

They really need to decide which are the most important (e.g. not smoking) and get rid of the rest which either makes people stress (not good for baby) or ignore all the rules they don't fancy following.

I'm bad at following rules. I eat what I like tbh. However I have given up smoking and am almost completely teetotal anyway so those are the major ones for me.

Can I ask if anyone knows anyone who ever had listeria, pregnant or not? as that's why you're not supposed to eat blue cheese and I really am craving it!

Lavita - I think there's been a mix-up between listeria and hysteria!

According to this: www.amm.co.uk/files/factsabout/fa_list.htm - the risk is 1:30,000 to pregnant women in the UK. I reckon I've got a higher risk of being hit by a bloody car when I take the dogs to the park in 30 minutes.

I loved my danish blue on crackers in early pregnancy - positively craved it - and no, I've never known any real person who's had listeria. But then I buy my blue cheese from a nice supermarket and not a French market in 35 degree heat. I probably wouldn't eat blue cheese sat under a marquee at a wedding buffet in August though...

armadillo I asked my mother recently about all these rules (she had us in the 70s) - she snorted and of course said it was all about using your "own bloody common sense".

You've made me smile Skihorse

My Italian SIL was shocked I was eating, wait for it, raspberries! apparently in Italy they tell you not to eat any soft fruit. I think if you added up all the different info from all the various countries, you wouldn't be allowed anything

haha that's brilliant! Well I've been told (here I think) that I shouldn't eat Greek yoghurt - I had a lunch with a Greek friend last week and she laughed her head off at that one! Raspberries indeed!

I don't think there are too many rules.

• Stop smoking. Well, that is just pure common sense. If you want to pump yourself full of such chemicals then fine, but would you hand your baby a cigarette?

• Minimise drinking. Really not that much of a chore. I was always told one to two small glasses maximum two times a week, and personally I couldn't manage that; half a glass and I was knackered and nearly asleep!

• Watch what you're eating. I struggled with cheese, I missed it, and pate, but it wasn't as if I ate them every day anyway. If you're eating fatty cheeses and pate every day then you will be taking in too much fat. I don't know anyone who eats more than three tins of tuna a week, so that is hardly an issue either. And shellfish is again, not generally eaten all the time, so is not really much of a sacrifice.

Not exactly a huge amount. I know I've missed out some but they're what I can think of right now. I understand there is a big debate between "Its my body / You're carrying a baby in it". Generally it comes down to common sense.

I think a lot of it is common sense but most women are unaware of how many units of alcohol are in a drink and that their immune system is compromised when pregnant. The number of women on other forums I've seen saying "well I haven't had food poisoning for years so I'll eat what I want" who just do not realise the issues or implications.

Like with many health issues, intelligent people who can do their own research and have some understanding of the medical implications and evidence will be fine, but a majority of people are unequipped to make these decisions themselves.

Having said that, the huge amount of rules that we get given these days actually seems to make some people ignore them all. And there is an issue in this country with babies born with Foetal Alcohol Syndrome. I don't know what's the answer really.

I think there is now a bewildering aray of rules - you only have to look on here at all the threads from newly pregnant women worrying that something they have eaten, drunk or breathed in may have harmed their baby. It's also very unclear what the risks are - so for example eating blue cheese won't harm your baby per se, but may give you listeria poisoning, which you would know about!

Apart from anything else, the rules change all the time - did you know that Honey is now safe and so are cooked shellfish?

I've given up the drink completely, but I still get really annoyed when I see a bottle of wine with a little symbol of a pregnant woman with a red line through it - you patronising gits!!!

I've only avoided pate, blue cheese (only cos I don't like it ) and mussels because I spent an interesting few days in the bathroom once after eating some.

I had a lovely Mr Whippy the other day, and have been drinking perhaps one or two wines a month if I fancy it, normally just knocks me out though!

I'm 38+4.

The problem with all the rules is it plays on our insecurities. Once you've heard something COULD be bad for the baby, you feel like you can't do it 'just in case.' I mean, you'd never forgive yourself if something went wrong.

skihorse Thu 17-Jun-10 08:15:47
What we need are self-esteem classes so that every newly-pregnant woman learns to give a resounding "fuck off" every time she's patronised by someone telling her what she can/cannot eat or drink.

LOVE this idea - would be so much more useful than the crap they tell you at ante-natal classes.

I was gutted when my MW told me I shouldn't be eating McFlurrys

Looking forward to the week after the birth eating Brie, pate, rare steak.... Yummy!

SirBoobALot's list is sensible, but what about all of the other foods that we are told to be careful of by various sources?
Liver, soft eggs, rare meat, uncooked cured meats, shellfish, raw fish, prepared salads etc. Each of these on their own is easy enough to avoid, take the whole list though and you are stuck scrutinising every single meal you eat and feeling guilty about everything. I won't even start on exposure to other chemicals (suncreams, even the suggestion that we shouldn't wear make-up) or exercise and activity guidelines.

I find the implication that we can no longer think for ourselves most patronising, and yes, those wine bottle symbols really get on my nerves too.

Regarding listeria, yes I do know one woman who has it during pregnancy, it was quite a long time ago and for all I know she may have been the only case in the country. When I asked my gynaecologist about the risks she said that in 30 years of practising she has never had a case and never even heard of one from colleagues or other sources and that she does not warn patients off patés or soft cheeses (this is in Germany, though not the UK). She does however take the risk of toxoplasmosis very seriously and tests patients for it routinely.

eat a rare steak now, it's fine! As long as it's cooked on the outside, then rare meat (as long as it's a type that's supposed to be rare, ie not chicken or pork etc) then there is no issue.

this I think is the problem, the rules aren't actually that clear - you get conflicting information from different sources.

I have largely ignored the "rules" but have been sensible, iyswim.

I was at a wedding on Saturday, and was frowned at by a (single, childless) male friend for drinking half a glass of champagne.

I said to him:

"Given that this is my second pregnancy and you know me to be a well-read, thinking sort of person, don't you think it's possible that I know a little more about the potential dangers than you?"

He shut up after that.

cardicorgi it just shows how different things are in each country - i asked about toxo as we have 2 cats and my mw just laughed at me and said they don't bother screening for it here.

I didn't even know you were supposed to avoid Mr Whippy

My mum told me off the other day for eating an M&S prawn mayo sandwich, while the handy list of foods to avoid my midwife gave to me made no mention of it - though it did ban shark, swordfish and marlin

In some of the preg books I've read things to avoid included bagged salads and pre-prepared sandwiches. Given all their other restrictions I'm quite sure what they intended I had for lunch at work.

Cosmosis, yes it's interesting. I had one test as soon as I knew I was pregnant and at least one since. On the other hand, nobody seems to worry about salmonella here.

FunkyCherry, I've got similar eating plans for after the birth.

The other thing that annoys be is when someone says "you shouldn't be doing that, best to play it safe" and then doesn't tell you what they think the risks are. E.g. in one pregnancy book I have it says that swimming is great, but only to do it in chlorinated pools, with no explanation why. The same book spends ages telling the reader that the baby is well sealed and protected, so why is swimming in a clean lake or the sea supposed to be a problem? Clearly I'm not going to jump into a river right at the point where they pump sewage out, am I?

toxo is the ONE thing I did take seriously

I met someone who contracted it during her seventh month, the consequences for her child were awful.

I think rare steak is OK only if it has been frozen and properly defrosted, just to kill off any eggs in the meat

I have to say, I am always a bit [sceptical] about people who say, "okay, you might have done your research, but what if you are wrong, you wouldn't forgive yourself; avoid everything 'just in case'"

It feels a bit like bullying, even if well intentioned, especially if you have already explained that you are making an informed decision about something.

I think that is the drive of the conference reported by the BBC above, which is going to discuss why, even in the case of things where there is no evidence of damage, people are encouraged to interpret it as a serious potential danger (eg don't drink AT ALL), rather than to just be aware that there may be some level of danger, but no one has found any yet, therefore use common sense. On this subject, I have seen a number of posts in MN where people discuss drinking a couple of glasses of wine a week in terms of FAS, and I think it's really nasty , with an element of the smug and self-righteous about it.

I am not drinking this pregnancy, but only because I feel completely bullied about it by my partner, who would not bat an eyelid if he saw me eating steak tartare covered in epoisse, whilst stroking a dirty cat, and I think it's down to the DM style infantilising of women attitude referred to in the article. Rant over...as you were...

Wait wait wait . . No McFlurry?! Is that for real??

Sigh

Lilllysa - you're allowed mcFlurrys and also the ones from KFC, I'd give the Burger King ones a miss though as they're just not that great!

ChoCho I couldn't agree more. "What if?" is peddled at every opportunity. I drive 50 miles a day on a motorway. I know where my risks lie.

ChoCho - totally agree. No one wants to take unnecessary risks but the list of "just in case" is absurd where everything in life carries a degree of risk. Shall I sit in a hermatically sealed bubble for 9 months fed pasturised mush through a tube?

I'm broadly following the guidance but it does seem to me to be missing where risks lie. So for instance I would it a medium-well steak from a place I trust but I wouldn't eat at the more dodgy looking "independent" fried chicken houses my borough seems to love so much as I have my doubts about their food hygiene.

We have the "scores on the doors" scheme here so if I want an indian or chinese takeaway I make sure I get it from somewhere with a high score on this as it shows that they are likely to take food hygiene seriously.

Partner tried for a while to insist I have no chocolate and don't drink any tea at all, after reading caffeine can increase risk of mc. On the one hand, people in my family seem to be at high risk of that anyway - but still, no chocolate dunked in tea? Tried it for about a week. We now compromise with smallish quantities instead.