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Pregnancy

Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

Anyone who's pregnant and decided not to have the swine flu jab?

37 replies

sunangel88 · 24/11/2009 00:28

Just had a call this morning from the GP asking me to make an appointment for the swine flu jab. I'd asked for Celvapan but the medical centre only had Pandremix. So am not having it until Celvapan is available. Now thinking again about whether I really should have it or not, since even Celvapan's unproven with pregnant ladies. Anyone decided not to have it? If so, why?

OP posts:
dragonrides · 24/11/2009 00:45

There's no way I am taking any vaccine. Here are the reasons:

  1. They claim that the vaccine is not safe for children under 6 months, why would it be safe for an unborn child?

  2. CDC has ordered that all doctors diagnose flu-like symptoms as H1N1, even though 90% of them are not having H1N1.

  3. The mercury level in vaccine is 100 times of safety level, not to mention the preservatives.

  4. Laws banning people from suing vaccine manufacturers.

  5. Everyone in the vaccine business (pharm company, media, advertisers, doctors, companies promoting the vaccines) get a cut from the profit, I will get it only if it is free, not sold as an expensive product, plus why do they come up with one vaccine with one strand, you won't be safe with one vaccine if you decide to get it.

  6. The study on research on pregnant women started in Sept this year, the results won't come out until next year, how do you know it's absolutely safe?

I would take the risk - eating healthy, plenty of good food and good vitamins (not the Centrum pills that don't dissolve in the water after 24 hours), improve immune system by eating proper food like yoghurt, blueberries, and not going to the public areas too often, absolutely stay away from anyone who might be sick.

sunangel88 · 24/11/2009 01:58

I have to admit - having to sign that you won't sue the manufacturers does give me pause. That and the fact that the vaccines were rolled out under an "emergency" legislation which mean that they may not have followed the normal approval process.

Then again, on the plus side it seems that if the mum has immunity, baby in the womb may also get immunity from mum? Is that true?

OP posts:
Miia · 24/11/2009 07:06

You don't have to sing anything and yes, baby gets immunity for 6 months. Mercury levels are tiny, less than what you get from a weekly diet, e.g. if you eat tuna. And the virus you get given is dead, better than catching the real thing from someone...

Intergalactic · 24/11/2009 07:20

I didn't sign anything and wasn't asked too.

Re: being safe for unborn babies but not babies under six months - obviously they are not injecting your unborn baby directly, they are injecting you and the baby is getting the immunity indirectly from you.

heth1980 · 24/11/2009 08:48

sorry but you're factually incorrect dragonrides.......you don't have to sign anything about not sueing the manufacturers (where on earth did you hear that???) and the mercury level is the same as you would find in a tin of tuna (i.e not dangerous at all). And of course the vaccine won't be free - why on earth would the pharm company make it for nothing?? Do you expect all their staff to work without wages?? It's really unhelpful to be scaremongering, especially when most of what you say is wrong.

dragonrides · 24/11/2009 14:52

Before using words "scaremongering", "wrong", "factually incorrect", I would urge you to do some research, in a larger scope than CDC. You can only call yourself responsible when you are well-informed (meaning more than one source of information).

  • IMPORTANT NOTE: I didn't say you are required to sign a waiver, I said, there are laws banning people from suing the vaccine manufacturers.

My biggest concern is: whether the H1N1 vaccine is properly tested in pregnant women.

Here are some of the reading that might be helpful:

Directly from CDC website:
"You may not be able to find out definitively what flu virus you have. Currently available rapid influenza diagnostic tests cannot distinguish between 2009 H1N1 and seasonal influenza A viruses."
Source: www.cdc.gov/H1N1FLU/DIAGNOSTIC_TESTING_PUBLIC_QA.HTM

This article saying that the vaccines were given out to pregnant women before testing:
health.usnews.com/blogs/on-women/2009/07/30/pregnant-women-will-be-included-in-h1n1 -flu-vaccine-trials.html

This is to support my statement that the H1N1 Vaccine testing in pregnant women started in Sept, 2009. From NIAID:
www.nih.gov/news/health/sep2009/niaid-09.htm

Learning about the 1976 vaccination disaster:
www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1894129,00.html

Other related articles:
www.gatheringspot.net/node/5107

yourbirthright.info/2009/09/16/just-say- no-to-the-swine-flu-vaccine/

I would LOVE to see some study results on pregnant women, if anyone can post them here! And I would gladly inform myself if there's any information I posted is not factual with facts.

dragonrides · 24/11/2009 14:56

I don't know why one of the pasted links doesn't work (from usnews.com), but you can google it, I will just copy the article here.

Pregnant Women Will Be Included in H1N1 Flu Vaccine Trials
July 30, 2009 03:10 PM ET | Deborah Kotz | Permanent Link | Print

As predicted, pregnant women are, indeed, on the government's list of the first folks to be vaccinated against the H1N1 "swine flu" virus. The panel of experts convened by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommended yesterday that the new vaccine be provided first to pregnant women and adults with compromised immune systems, who face a greater risk of complications, and others, like children and health-care workers, who are at higher risk of becoming infected, says Anne Schuchat, director of the CDC's National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. Some 159 million people fall into these high-priority groups, and whether there will be enough vaccine for all of them when it first becomes available isn't known.

In the event that there are shortages, the panel also came up with a superhigh-priority list of those who should be vaccinated?some 41 million individuals. Once again, pregnant women are on this list. Just how many of them will rush out to get vaccinated, however, remains a mystery. Studies suggest that fewer than 15 percent of expectant moms currently get the seasonal flu vaccine, but more may be willing to get the H1N1 vaccine?and their doctors may push harder for them to have it?given the latest data showing that pregnant women infected with H1N1 are more likely to develop severe complications.

The trouble is, many pregnant women are extremely cautious about getting any shots or medicines because of the potentially harmful effects that these agents could have on a developing fetus. In fact, vaccines that contain live weakened viruses, like measles, aren't administered during pregnancy because of the possibility that they could cause a high fever in the woman?raising the risk of birth defects?or an infection in the fetus. The seasonal flu and H1N1 shots, however, contain dead viruses that don't pose either of these problems. Still, many experts agree, the H1N1 vaccine should be tested in pregnant women before it's licensed for use during pregnancy. (Studies have already established that seasonal flu vaccine is safe and effective to use at any stage of pregnancy.)

The National Institutes of Health is set to begin testing the vaccine in pregnant women in the next month or two. "We're still awaiting word from our institutional review board [which signs off on all clinical trials], so we don't yet know who will be included," says Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, which is part of NIH. Although he says there's no reason not to include pregnant women at the earliest stage of pregnancy, the review board could "out of an abundance of caution" limit the trials to women who are beyond the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. Unfortunately, he adds, safety and efficacy data won't be available from those pregnant women trials when the vaccine initially becomes available in late October.

One question the trials may address is at what stage during pregnancy the vaccine should be given. Swine flu complications tend to be much worse when women get infected near the end of pregnancy as opposed to during the first 12 weeks. And there's always the possibility?no matter how remote?that something administered during those early weeks when a fetus's organs are still developing could cause birth defects. "This is a new vaccine, so we can't say whether it's safer to give during one period of pregnancy or another," says Mark Steinhoff, director of the global health center at Cincinnati Children's Hospital, who has researched the use of seasonal flu vaccine in pregnant women.

By and large, there's no reason to think that the H1N1 vaccine will pose any problems for pregnant women since it's being produced in exactly the same fashion as the seasonal flu vaccine. What's more, Steinhoff adds, pregnant women who get vaccinated will probably also confer antibody protection to their newborns who are too young to be vaccinated themselves. This could prove lifesaving if H1N1 infections become extremely widespread or the virus mutates into a deadlier strain.

Pregnant women are also advised to get Tamiflu if they experience symptoms of swine flu like high fever, sore throat, and a cough. But some experts are concerned over the lack of research on the use of this drug in pregnant women infected with H1N1. "We are hugely concerned that we don't know what the right dose is for pregnant women," says Ruth Faden, director of the Berman Institute of Bioethics at Johns Hopkins University. "While it may be that the standard dose of Tamiflu is perfectly appropriate, it's at least possible that it's an insufficient dose for pregnant women at a given stage in pregnancy." That's because pregnant women's kidneys clear drugs faster from the body, which means that certain drugs may not enter the bloodstream at therapeutic levels. (This has been demonstrated with some antibiotics, but Tamiflu hasn't been tested in pregnant women.) "I think the message we should be getting out is that pregnant women should be vaccinated," she says, and that those who get infected and treated with Tamiflu should be studied in clinical trials to see if the drug is given at an effective dose. "This is a tough situation. I wish we weren't in it."

MillyMollyMoo · 24/11/2009 16:16

I am waiting and watching to see what happens in my local area in terms of numbers catching swine flu, if it goes over a certain percentage then I will have it.

bigpreggybelly · 24/11/2009 16:40

Oh god - how many threads do we have to have on this topic??!!!

Why can't OP read the threads that are on here already - they cover exactly the same ground!

illuminasam · 24/11/2009 16:42

I'm also waiting and watching. So far I've come into contact with very few people who've actually had it, however, in the last couple of days the situation changed as both my in-laws seem to have it (or something like it, it might not be the actual H1N1).

I'm trying to avoid ill people and being vigilant about hygiene and health.

It's a tricky one but my instincts are saying don't do anything at the moment.

dragonrides · 24/11/2009 17:18

It doesn't matter how many threads...since we are still uncertain about whether the vaccine is good or bad for the baby!!! Sad such a big medical concern should be well tested and questioned and explained but it's not.

bigpreggybelly · 24/11/2009 17:54

Dragon rides - you are a paranoid scaremongerer.

bigpreggybelly · 24/11/2009 17:56

... and you're only well informed in your own opinion.

heth1980 · 24/11/2009 18:10

well said bigpreggybelly. and how you can quote a "vaccine disaster" from 1976 is completely beyond me dragonrides. I think everyone should be left to do their own research and make their own informed decision with out such unhelpful comments.

BexJ78 · 24/11/2009 18:20

i am 38+3 and have had a letter inviting me to go for the jab, but so far haven't been. i guess I am burying my head in the sand, but just don't feel 100% happy about somthing that seems quite rushed in its development. i am normally someone who acts on all 'official' advice, but i just have a niggling doubt about this vaccine...

skihorse · 24/11/2009 18:21

I too am somewhat sceptical about the vaccination and in particular am interested by the following:

"2) CDC has ordered that all doctors diagnose flu-like symptoms as H1N1, even though 90% of them are not having H1N1. "

LackingNicknameInspiration · 24/11/2009 18:34

Going back to OP - am not having it as am just not concerned enough about it. But then, I don't know anyone at all who's had it (still less anyone who's actually had it properly diagnosed) so that's possibly why I'm so blase. There is a part of me that's quite sceptical about how well tested a jab can be, given the usual hysteria about women having any sort of medication in pregnancy.

MamaLazarou · 24/11/2009 18:45

I'm not having it. I don't think I need it. DH had swine flu back in October and I didn't catch it from him then. If I'm not going to catch it from someone I kiss 20 times a day, I don't think I'm likely to catch it at all!

jojochanel · 24/11/2009 19:20

skihorse - I heard something a bit similar from my friend who is a GP on Sunday. she said that they are now swabbing everyone with swine flu like symptoms and so far only 16% are currently coming back as actually being H1N1. The rest are other seasonal virus things. I'm caveating that this is only a comment from one GP friend so please don't take this as 'official'

I've so far decided not to have it and am 22 weeks although very scared as have two wee ones in nursery and working in office environment so at high risk. I'm in a bit of a panic about it all really....

Elizap · 24/11/2009 19:22

I am not having it simply because I just had swine flu and so am hedging my bets that I am now immune from getting it again!

dragonrides · 24/11/2009 20:08

By calling me "paranoid scaremongerer" isn't really helpful, I don't care what you do - of course its your decision, I don't even know you! But think of it this way (I assume that you've taken the vaccine already and maybe that's why you are so upset), the reason people getting the vaccine is because they are SCARED to begin with.

Come back with some facts, anything outside facts are just noise.

Mama2b5 · 24/11/2009 20:14

im 31 weeks and have decided NOT to get the swine flu jab!i dont feel im at risk and so am not getting a jab that has not been around long enough and the info about pregnant women and the risks are not filling me with confidence!
i have children and dont feel they should have the jab either! no amount of press coverage of how we should get it is making me do anything i dont want to!

Also people are allowed to have an open mind and decide what they want!
not sure of why people are saying to see this would scare anyone!
ermm adults and choices!dont like, dont read!

sunangel88 · 24/11/2009 20:19

I do feel like sticking my head in the sand. Balancing the risks of getting swine flu vs damage to baby as a result of unknown side effects of drugs.

I remember my mum about 10 years ago trying to decide whether or not to take HRT, and being told by her doctor and everyone else that HRT is good for you, increases bone density etc. Yet she didn't. Now a few years after, the HRT side effects have now surfaced and she's very glad she didn't take it.

I think I'll hold out a little longer to see if there's any thing that comes up, maybe if swine flu cases reach above a certain level in my area, like MillyMolly. In the meantime, I'll avoid London and keep maniacally washing my hands!

OP posts:
dragonrides · 24/11/2009 20:30

Sunangel88: none of us knows definitively it is good or bad. The reality is: either way we will be scared. I personally take my naturopathic doctor's advice - we discussed all the risks involved around vaccine (not just H1N1) and he was the one told me a lot of the things that are going on behind the scene. I just feel more comfortable with eating healthy (eating yoghurt, blueberries, fresh vegetables and fruits), and the acupuncture improves my immune system as well. Don't really want to deal with arguments here since it raises my blood pressure . Best wishes to us all

skihorse · 25/11/2009 08:50

I'm a bit like the other ladies here... I'd put 100 quid on the table and say "I'm not going to catch swine flu". I drive to work and I live in a small town, I work in a relatively small building - when people around me start dropping like flies I'll worry, but until then is there more room in the sand for another head?

I must admdit if I were getting on the tube every day I'd be worried - and not just for bloody flu!

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