Another lady lost her baby in Portugal at 34 weeks after having the swine flu jab.....

[LaCerbiatta]

I know it's probably unrelated, but what if it isn't?

I had the Pandermix yesterday (I'm 26 weeks) and I'm regretting it now...

I am quite sure it was not tugamommy's intention to scare us but to inform us of something happening in another country that could be of interest for us all. I think many people here are being unfair and jumping straight to conclusions - whatever conclusions it might be...
I had read about these babies deaths myself on the Portuguese newspaper Publico and was waiting to see what conclusions were drawn. I am grateful is someone brings more information, even scary information, so that we can all make informed decisions regarding this vaccine and there is no need to go either into panic mode nor dismissive mode.

anyone unsure needs to see mw and/or gp. dont seek medical advice on MN/internet. the other side of it is SF is a potential risk to immunosuppressed pg women who arent vaccinated

I am preg and not taking the jab, but this story comes across just like the tales people on MN were telling of preg women who refused the jab and died an agonising death.

We focus on the deaths but not the survivors - loads of preg women have had the jab and survived, and loads of preg women have had SF and survived. Those statistics are far more meaningful IMO than the few deaths, as there are far more of them.

Until we know the actual, precise causes of death, we cannot say it is the jab or SF or something else that was to blame.

I don't mind her brining it up, I just think the way she did it was thoughtless.

If you haven't got time to compose a proper post outlining what's gone on then maybe you should leave it til later to post.

Instead of posting a headline then disappearung.

i've not even been offered it haha

Apologies to all if my post was thoughtless. I am incredibly busy at work today and hence took so long to come back to the thread. But when I saw the news I just wanted to share with everyone straight away.

I'll definitely think twice before posting next time - it's just too easy to get criticised on mn, even when your intentions are clearly the best...

Er...I think tugamommy was looking for a bit of reasurance....I don't think she was trying to scare any one.

tugamommy...I have no statistics to offer, but most pople by far have been fine. It's highly, highly unlikely anything bad will result from you having Pandermix.

tugamommy i don't think you were being thoughtless like i said before its another worry in pregnancy and you posted in pregancy for reassurance just like someone else would have when this is open to uk more

Thanks Lynette - I am taking some confort in that. Also some nordic countries started vaccinating before us and no bad effects have been reported.

I was just taken aback by 2 'coincidences' so close together....

More information is published here: it seems that the cord was not around the baby's neck as it was said before and that the autopsy's results will only be known in a week.

Previous information translated:
"The clinical director of the hospital today Cuf discoveries advanced the delivery of dead fetus of a pregnant 33 weeks already occurred, and the baby did not show any gross lesion, and the umbilical cord being wrapped around one leg and trunk and not around the neck as had been earlier. The body was sent for autopsy and the results should be known within a week."

I think it is really interesting to hear what is happening in other countries regarding swine flu particularly concerning pregnant women. Just listening to the British viewpoint is very narrow minded. Through MN in the last 24 hours I've read comments about treatment in France, Belgium and Netherlands and now a Portuguese story.
Thank you for raising this tugamommy

I agree that it's important to get a more global view on SF, but I'd be more interested in a broader statistical viewpoint from other countries and information on how medics are choosing to handle SF, Smac. That's why I asked friends of mine abroad to find out that information for me. It's interesting to know, for example, that in the US they're diagnosing SF based on cheek swabs, not self-reporting via vague descriptions on a website. And that in France (and here, according to the New Scientist) medics are deeply divided over whether they themselves would take the jab.

I do not find this story helpful - one extreme story is precisely that: one extreme story.

yes all medication carry risk of contraindication. that is why you make face to face informed choice supported by good clinical evidence and efficacy

unfortunately the inetrnet is awash with scare stories about anything from toothpaste to mmr

Riven makes a important point. There is a risk with all vaccines, not just swine flu. The risk may be small but it is still there and one must weigh up the pros and cons for the individual.

Lots of pg women have come to sensible, informed decisions re the swine flu vaccine - whether that is to have it, or not to have it.

If people think there is 'no risk at all' or 'doctors wouldn't give us the jab if there is any riak' then they are wrong. If there is no risk then why does the government have a Vaccine Damage Payment (of £120,000) to those who have been victims of damage caused by vaccines? (including babies affected while mothers are pregnant)

This is no secret. I studied about vaccine damage in Immunology as an undergraduate, and you can find out all about the Vaccine Damage Payment by searching google including a list of the vaccines which would be considered.

All of us need to weigh up the pros and cons individually on this one. For the vast majority the pros of having the vaccine outweigh the ccns.

Thanks for that well-considered post, RnB. It annoys me no end when people patronisingly assume you're being stupid or a bad mother for deciding not to take the vaccine.

Thanks MrsMerryHenry. I agree, the accusations of scaremongering and of being conspiracy theorists are largely unfair.

I too have decided against the vaccine, but does that make me a bad mother or ill-informed - er...no.

i think if a choice is well informed,based upon sound clinical evidence etc and not anecdotes gleaned from bus stop/mil/mn then yes as individuals we have choices.

Dear All,

I've been following this case closely (since I'm Portuguese) and so far they were not able to establish a link between the vaccine and the babies' deaths. The Head of the Portuguese College of Obstetricians is recommending that all pregnant women should take the vaccine. They have also revealed a "scary" number: last year in Portugal around 268 babies died in the womb (intrauterine fetal death)after 28 weeks, which is more or less one per day... So the fact that the mums had the vaccine might be just an unfortunate coincidence. So try to keep calm, don't let the media stress you even more and follow your instincts whether you want to have the vaccine or not.

I agree with some of the other posters. This is a stupid scaremongering thread.

There is no evidence its related.

How many women have had swine flu jabs and not had an IUD?

how many women in the UK have had IUDs/stillbirths in the last few weeks and not had the flu jab? Quite a few I'd have thought.

wow its so amazing how people react to something, just by the lack of info! we all have the freedom i believe of posting a thread its up to us if we read it and then to come up with a choice! maybe all pregnant women should stay in doors all of the 9 months, not have any contact with the outside world and then and only then will we be safe from the dangers in this world full stop! I have decided not to get it and have not be scared in the slightess!i have full support from my DH.
when there is so much hype and my MW never mentioned it to me? i really wonder if all people in the medical field believe gettin the jab is the correct thing to do!

I dont mind getting TOLD OFF i have very thick skin and a very big bump!

have it -or don't have it - no-one should judge you. Its up to you - just as its up to you if you have stilton or give up caffeine. Its a scary time and each woman has to make up her own mind. This is easier said than done when we don't have all the information, that's why I am even reading this. BUT having booked my jab for Friday (under no illusions as to the risks either way) my heart lurched when I saw the title of this thread. Its a very scary title. Especially the word ANOTHER. I know we are all worried but really - don't post such a scary title without proper information.

that said I appreciate the impulse to get reassurance. But really NO ONE is going to be able to say what we want to hear. NO ONE can with the best will in the world tell you with any accuracy:

You will definitely not get swine flu.
You will definitely do no harm to do yourself or your baby if you have the jab.
You might get swine flu but you and your baby will definitely be OK.
You will die if you get swine flu.

that is the way it is. This playing out and repeating hearsay, opinion and scares is catastrophe thinking - worst case scenario obsessing and doing more harm than good. I am going cold turkey and not reading any more.