anybody else in 2 minds about swine flu jab?

[jlo1234]

i asked my doctor if he recommends me getting the swine flu jab, and he wasnt very convincing. he said its reccomended by the government but he doesnt know much about it himself so he would leave it up to the patient.

a friend said that she had had hers, shes a nurse who works in intensive care unit and said she thinks i should definatly have it because there has been a few pregnant women in there with swine flu and they are really ill with it.

the only thing that is holding me back is the fact that the vaccine is so new and hasnt been round for long enough for us to know if and what the long term side affects might be.

i feel like a guinnee pig and its putting me off, but then again i dont know what is the lesser of 2 evils, risk getting swine flu and putting both me and baby in danger or have the jab and risk side affects that havent been found yet.

i feel like im far enough along in my pregnancy for it to not cause much harm to the baby, (im nearly 33 weeks) but im just not sure what to do! it also confuses me that pregnant women cant have the seasonal flu vaccine but we can have the swine flu one?

has anybody actually had it, if so what made u decide u wanted it and did u regret it?
or has anybody else heard something to make them definatly not want it?

The pg GP and health visitor at my practice have both had pandremix.

Lessons have been learned from Thalidomide. That's exactly why the UK government was so quick to cover up the MMR.

Anyway, I agree, that's neither here nor there. But with so many medical proffessionals addvising against this vaccine, with it being new and untested, with such a high chance of either not contracting Swine 'Flu in the first place or making a 100% recovery if you do... Why take a chance?

(Not to mention the fact that other countries have already withdrawn it!)

Hello, I have been reading this thread with interest as I am wrestling with the same dilemma. I am so glad that I read this thread first....
I went to doctor's surgery to inform them I was pregnant and to book in for a hospital. As I was leaving as an afterthought I suddenly remembered to ask about the swine flu jab. The doctor herself didn't mention it or bring it up at all, so if I hadn't said anything it clearly wasn't on her mind to say anything about it.She said I should have it even though I am only around 6 weeks pregnant. I asked her, 'Are there any contraindications for pregnancy, any side effects'. She said, 'Well we don't know yet'. But then again she herself was pregnant but much further along than me and was getting it herself the next day. I went and booked an appointment for next week, but had my doubts. Now I have cancelled the appointment and if I rebook I will wait until much further down the line in pregnancy, as I really think that 6 weeks is way too early. I am surprised that the GP didn't consider this when advising me to have the vaccine. The fact that no one at the surgery despite my asking seems to have an reassurance or knowledge to offer regarding the possible risks or long term side effects of the vaccine is in itself off putting. Also the fact that the GP wasn't even going to mention it if I hadn't. Surely if it was SO important that wouldv'e been one of the first things on her mind to tell me. And the GP saying, 'WE JUST DON'T KNOW ABOUT ANY SIDE EFFECTS YET'......well that's hardly going to encourage me to rush to get the vaccine. I need more objective and informed info, not info that is clouded by subjectiviety and political opinion or strong emotions. But where are the health professionals who can do this? Of course NHS workers are going to advise to get the vaccine, that's their job. Anyway at any rate I am glad I have read this thread it has made me decide to wait till my pregnancy is furhter along.....bit miffed with the GP that she didn't think about it

'covered up the MMR'

whiteroses but pg women do have a high chance of contracting SF, much higher than the general public, and then at increased risk of developing complications.
Its quite easy to not see whats going on, and I admit Id thought it wasnt that bad until I saw the amount of hospital staff queueing up to have the vaccine at 9am in the morning discussing the increase in cases.

whippy I totally respect your decision to wait. You are at less risk during the 1st trimester and I also think that had I been in early pregnancy I would have also turned down the vaccine, and waited for my scans and allowed the baby to develop further. FWIW i think youre doing the right thing.

WhiteRoses totally agree

Cote very intersting information, thanks for that

PotPourri that is awful and I am so sorry, I really hope that you get the news you want just so glad that you got better... cannot imagine pregnant ill and 3 kids you must be superwoman!

I would say that hospital staff are more in need of the vaccine due to their close proximity to lots of ill people.

I think that the chance of being hospitalised with swine flu when pregnant is 4% taken from the WHO data

I am having mine later today.
I'm not overly pleased at the prospect but I am not willing to take the risk (although small) that I could end up with swine flu and potentially serious ill health.

last week i was @ 24 week midwife check where she asked me "have u thought about swine flu jag" i told her i probably would not be taking it as i feel we are guinea pigs and feel it has not been tested enough.

she told me she understood my concerns and explained that that there were currently 3 women in intensive care wif swine- she also said she doesnt know wot she would do if she were pregnant and in her words " look at the case of thalidomide"

so no wonder pregant women have concerns about getting this jag!

the decider for me is that IT HAS NOT BEEN TESTED ON PREGANT WOMEN therefore we dont know wot the long term damage is going to be.

i really do wish i had the guts to go for it but my gut feeling is telling me not to..... i work in a nursery and wen flu jag was being offered i was told i couldnt hav it becoz i was pregant........

i really feel for u all .x.x.

I have mine booked for tomorrow I'm not happy about it but came to the decision based on I work in London, commute every day so does my DH, My DD is only 2 and goes to a CM so she is less at risk however the CM's daughter goes to senior school as does one of the children (9yrs at a guess) in her care.

I have asthma so I'm a slightly higher risk, when I discussed the jab with my GP a few weeks ago she told me that they don't know the side effects on anyone because the vaccine hasn't been around long enough.

However when I went this week (for a UTI infection nice) she asked me again and said they have been advised to tell all pregnant women are to have it she said there are a number of pregnant women with it in ITU at the moment.....

The information/research I could find on it was based in the states and said that out of 100 women hospitalised 28 had died so 1 in 3 that get as bad as to be hospitalised died.

This to me is a scary statistic, at the end of the day you can only hope that if you get it you get a mild version of it, but what if you don't and you leave other DC without a mother and partner/hubby without a partner/wife? to be a single parent!

The vaccine has been developed based on the initial flu jab which is given to normal pregnant women, my GP said you can have it at any stage of pregnancy, personally I wouldn't have it pre-12 weeks as the main development is taking place then... I'll be 15 weeks when I have mine, but having already had 2 colds so bad that I need my asthma pump and now having a UTI infection I think on balance for me I am having the jab, obviously I would love reassurance that there will be no side effects, but then it could be like anything else the could suddenly find eating cooked eggs gives you a child with bad behaviour! Its the unknown its a hard decision to make.

The webcast with David Sailsbury was interesting and helped me turn my opinion from no way to I'll do more research...

STIGZ your MW sounds totally irresponsible to be talking about the 'connection' with thalidomide. Hardly helpful is it?

The argument that its not been tested on pg women is neither here nor there, nothing is ever tested on pg women because its unethical. So if you have to take anything (Zovirax, antibiotics, hayfever meds, inhalers) none of its been tested on pg women, you just have to think of the risks and benefits.

Agree that decision is dependent on your situation, where you work, how you travel to work, your dh's work, whether you have school age or children in nursery etc. All these factors can make a difference to whether we decide to take it up or not

I dont think there is a wrong or right decision for this. You must just do what you feel is right. Chances are, if you dont have the jab and get flu you will most likely be fine. If you have the jab, again i think that you will be fine.

I had my jab last night, Im 24 weeks. Apart from a sore arm I am feeling fine. I was in two minds about the jab- if you had asked me about it a few months ago I would have said no way! But after reading about it, I decided it was the best thing for me, my baby, and my family.

The seasonal flu vaccine has been given to pregnant women for years and is considered safe. This is based on that, they have just changed the viral part for this flu. The reason everyone is reacting so much more to this flu is because its never been seen before, we have no antibodies to it whatsoever unlike seasonal flu where we have some sort of immunity to it. I didnt want to risk catching it right before labour/after the baby was due and passing it on to a newborn who wouldnt have much of an immune system.

Working for a pharmaceutical company, the drug regulations are incredibly strict now, and the mention of thalidamide- well that was 30 years ago and science has come a long way since then! Plus the strict safety regulations now in effect.

I think there's a lot of scaremongering going on, everyone should just be allowed to make their own minds up without someone else trying to either force them into it or scare them out of it.

Suzidee Switzerland has absolutely not recalled the vaccine for pregnant women. I am from there and it is definitely being made available to them (in a non-adjuvanted form).

Moreover, I can't find a single reputable article on the recall of the vaccine in Sweden for pregnant women.......if you have any info on this, it would be great if you posted it.

After much faffing I've decided to have it (I'll be 38 weeks). I'm not worried about what's in it (I probably get more Squalene from my moisturiser and more Mercury from the soil on my veg) just that I might have some reaction to it when I'm already feeling so pants and the baby has got to be subjected to antibiotics in/after labour for Strep B.

My mum is very relieved, bless her, she's convinced that I'd catch it from someone in hospital .

Hi babyboom, I have already corrected the statement, I said that Switzerland has decided not to offer pandemrix which is being offered here and that this was due in part to concern over deaths in Sweden not that there had been a full ban on the vaccination there.... sorry for confusion!

Cote has also pointed out that this vaccine is not being offered in Monaco

It's not offered to babies (< 2 yrs) & pregnant women. It's offered to everyone else.

Hi sorry Cote I think I need to phrase my posts better! Can I blame it on "the fog"?

I really think that there is a tremendous amount of misinformation out there and people are getting carried away with rumours and hearsay. Moreover, I think this problem is affecting pockets of the medical profession.

Several ladies here have been discouraged by their doctors from having the vaccine due to lack of testing. I find this response to be very strange because (as my OB and GP explained) drug companies have been producing seasonal flu vaccines for the last decade in exactly the same way. The H1N1 is the same one as all the rest, except with a different flu virus. Seasonal flu vaccines are given to pregnant women all the time so why the sudden panic?

We are worried about the minute quantities of additives in the vaccine and yet what about the pesticides on our fruits and vegetables, the parabens in our creams, the dioxins in plastics that leech into our food, the cleaning product fumes we inhale, the polution we breath in.....the list of potentially harmful substances we ingest on a daily basis is endless and yet we are terrified of mercury levels in the vaccine equivalent to those found in a can of tuna?

Sorry for the ramble......I think the above message is my intellectual reasoning for having the vaccine. My emotional response is still one of "I will not take anything while pregnant!".

Still think I am going to have it done though.....

My consultant (who I am seeing privately) was a bit undecided about the jab when I spoke to her last week and has originally asked me to hold off having it.....I have just got back from seeing her this morning, and she told me that she had three pieces of information that have changed her opinion and now she thinks I should definitely have it. Those pieces of information are:

1. She had originally been confused about the vaccine and whether or not it was "live" as they are using a live form that can be taken as an inhaler in the US (not for pregnant women). Now that she has had a chance to look into the process for the creation of the vaccine she believes that it is no different to the seasonal flu vaccine - it just picks a different set of proteins to stimulate the immune response. Building a flu virus is a bit like building lego - you are just selecting which pieces to use. I asked her about the squalene/ajuvant debate and she does not believe that this poses a risk, though accepts that there will always be individuals who don't like these chemicals because of the whole MMR/autism debate etc, but as it stands there is no evidence that these chemicals will harm us. Yes, the adjuvant free version is probably better, but it's not available to us all, and from what I hear, you might need 2 doses to get immunity which means going for longer unprotected.

2. The medical profession has discovered in the last few days that pregnant women are being hit particularly hard by this flu virus because as our pregnancies develop, we experience a gradual depletion in a specific enzyme that is foudn within our lungs. This enzyme is required to stop bacteria forming in the lungs and would help a non pregnant person from fighting off the development of pneumonia. this coupled with the squashing of the lungs in late pregnancy and our lowered immune response makes us very vulnerable - it is not just anecdotal.

3. Another woman in our practice has just been admitted to intensive care and is on a ventilator, fighting for her life. Her baby was delivered at 35 weeks and who know whether or not he will suffer any impact from the treatment his mother has received.

The fact that my consultant's initial reaction was not to have the vaccine, and her subsequent u- turn has made me realise that not everyone in the medical profession (obstetricians included) are experts on vaccines and just like us, they need to do their own research and draw their own conclusions. Now that my consultant has the facts, she is fully supportive of recommending I have the vaccine and all of her patients are going to do it. I now feel a lot more comfortable with the decision and will ook myself in to have the vaccine - I will be 17 and a half weeks when I receive it.

Are there any risks? Of course there are.....any medical procedure that we receive is associated with risks and that's why we are asked to sign a disclaimer whenever we have treatment. If you have a blood transfusion following birth, you might be unlucky enough to find out then years from now that the "new cjd" has been discovered and you are infected! If you have an epidural you might end up paralysed. If you have your appendix out you might die under anethestic.......everything has a risk attached to it. However, in my mind it's a case of weighing up relative levels of risk and as a pregnant woman, I feel that I would be taking a much greater risk refusing this vaccine as I could catch SF - yes, I might get a mild case, but i also have a rather high chance of developing complications and then I would be facing a whole new set of medical procedures that probably aren't recommended for pregnant women, but would be necessary to save my life.

Its a tough decision for us all to make, but please don't be swayed by the opinions of people that don't have any expert experience in this matter.

P.S. I agree that its not fair to mention thalidomide......this was back in the 60's and back then we also thought it was safe to smoke and drink throughout our pregnancies!!!! We have evolved!!!

Lumpasmelly -- thanks for your super informative post.

I agree that many doctors are still getting up to speed on their knowledge of the vaccine.

Very interesting recent article in Newsweek called "Innoculation Misinformation" for those interested....

www.newsweek.com/id/218513/page/1

The error with thalidomide did happen a while ago but errors like this do still happen.

I know it wasn't a drug for pregnant women but what happened recently with Vioxx was simply dreadful and should/could have been avoided.

Vaccines have been recalled/hastliy withdrawn in recent times too so let's not be complacent about how stringent safety and quality protocols are.

I happen to agree with suzidee about the thalidomide. It was a terrible thing that happened to babies and it goes to show you that you can't completely put your faith in the healthcare system and jump when they tell you to. I'm sure thats what Suzi's argumnet was. And I agree 100 percent! Also, lets not forget the swine flu shot epidemic back in the 70's.....and how GBS was the after affects by that shot. The US government, who rushed the shot to millions of people, had to pay back billions to those affected by GBS. Now you may say it was decades ago, but the reaason for all of this mentioning is people do get it wrong sometimes. Just b/c you hold a PHD doesn't make you correct all the time. I am 31wks pregnant and I'm like very much up in the air about the whole thing as most of you.

I do agree with MossChops about the Celvapan. I am very lucky to be receiving that shot next week. It is very much the safer option b/c it is preservative free from the preservative Thimerosal which contains mercury and leads to autism ( that preservative is banned in the state of California). It is also free from squalene which is another controversial ingredient. I agree again with Moss, it is very hard to get Celvapan but it is POSSIBLE! And I am happy to say I would rather wait it out the 3wks receiving that shot than receive the Pandemrix. Keep in mind, the US is only giving pregnant women preservative free shots. Thats good enough for me to base my decision on. And thank you to whoever posted about Switzerland and not giving the pandemrix.

At the end of the day though ladies, just remember it is a very difficult decision and I feel for you all b/c I am going through the same thing! Good luck to you all.

Just read your Newsweek link babyboom.

BTW some of it doesn't really apply to Europe as the US is getting a different vaccine.

Must have hurt having to refute both the vaccine autism connection and the GWS vaccine connection in the same paragraph!

Also there is a 'mistake' about Guillain-Barre syndrome which is a rare but well documented adverse effect of vaccination.