Quick poll - Pg ladies, how pg are you and will you be having the swine flu jab?

[laurawantsababy]

I am 25 weeks pg with dc2 and very confused.

After another death but with conflicting advice about the jab chosen for the UK what are we to do??

I would love you here everyones choice and thoughts on it to help me out.

Thanks

Oh, and in relation to the 'thalidomide' problems in the 70's - women were given the jab in early pregancy when baby was developing

And you'd hope medical science has come a long long way in 30 years......fingers crossed!

I have a lot of contact with professionals who work with people with infectious diseases and whilst at a hospital in the NW on Monday one of the Health Advisors there was saying how she went for her swine flu vaccination only to be told that the hospital weren't vaccinating anymore. They had been vaccinating people all morning but had suddenly decided to stop. She thought there must have been an NHS worker somewhere in the country who had had an adverse reaction to the jab and was really suprised that there hadn't been an announcement on the news about it.
Most of the nurses I speak to are hesitant to have it and all I have spoken to don't think I should have it (I'm 31 weeks pregnant) but they are not scientists and as much as they work in ID they don't have immunology backgrounds.
On the flip side most of the consultants I speak to (who have got lots of immunology experience/training) are pro vaccination but they do agree that it has been rushed out to the public and will not have had the usual battery of tests that most vaccines get (simply due to time constraints).
However none are actively encouraging me to hurry up and get the vaccine which is making me think that I won't go for it.
FWIW I have an immunology heavy degree (but it was a long time ago) and I am pro vaccination and despite all my knowledge about the vaccine simply being the same as the seasonal flu vaccine (i.e. same carrier with H1N1 spliced in instead of seasonal flu)I'm going to wait til my Gp contacts me and then make my decision, hoping that by that time comes I'll have had the baby.
So stressful even thinking about it

I had Pandemrix almost 24 hours ago and am feeling fine. I have a mild headache (but have been getting lots of those this pregnancy anyway so not certain it's a vaccine side effect) and a stiff shoulder, it's pretty achy to lift my arm above shoulder height - but this is the same as every vaccine I've had. I used to travel a lot and have had all the cholera, yellow fever, tyhpus etc immunisations as an adult. Never had a flu jab so can't compare it to that.

As for the non-physical effects: My son woke up with a fever this morning although he's pretty perky so doubt he has swine flu, but nonetheless I am much less worried about it as I know the vaccine starts working straight away, albeit with fullest protection only after 2-3 weeks. Using public transport and attending a family theatre show we went to last night I have a lot more peace of mind and am not glaring at anybody who coughs.

Likewise I have no worries about me visiting friends with young babies or another friend who is trying to conceive, because the chance of me transmitting swine flu to others is approaching slim to none.

I can even look at the anti-vaccine scare stories and videos going round without the same anxiety levels I had before because I've done it now, it's out of my hands!

Lilysam Mine wasn't claiming that it could cause birth defects. I think he was trying to illustrate a point that the jab has not been tested sufficiently and if you are using an untested jab there is no guarantee that it is safe. I don't believe that he actually thinks that there will be birth defects.

We wouldn't even be in this mess if the government had been tighter with screening people when they returned from infected areas.

I was in a serious panic of indecision about whether to have to vaccine or not. I rang my practice and asked them if they could get Celvapan in for me (I offered to pay) and they have agreed to do so (for free). Though it's going to take two weeks, so sod's law dictates that I will either have got swine flu or had a baby by then (am 35 weeks).

I am 13 weeks now and a primary school teacher so kind of in the front line for being exposed to SF - I also have weight issues - another thing that makes me more vulnerable to SF - I really don't know - I thought I would and then read this thread and am not sure.

I discussed it with my GP this morning and she was pretty neutral. She said:

Department of Health advice is to offer to all pregnant women, regardless of the stage of pregnancy.

She will be having it, though she's not pregnant.

The young healthy people she has seen with SF have been very ill and that you wouldn't want to be ill like that when you had to go through labour.

Cevalpan will only be available to people who have had an anaphylactic reaction to egg.

I probably will be exposed to it because I have a small child, work and travel on public transport.

I asked whether there were some stages of pregnancy where it would be safer to take it. She reiterated Department of Health advice to offer at all stages, but said some drugs are only avoided in the first trimester. Having said that, ibuprofen can cause problems if taken in the last trimester. But it made me think that being past the 12 week mark means that the really essential formation has already taken place. Who knows?

Still undecided....

I don't know this is any use to anyone. I've just been to see my consultant (not gynae but for my medical condition) his wife is pregnant and wouldn't have the jab. He'd spoken to people who had help develop the jab and they wouldn't have it.

I had questions relating to my medical condition and the effect of the jab which he answered as much as he could.

I don't think I'm high risk for exposure to it, I don't work (due to medical condition) and this is our first baby so there is no contact with young children going to nursery.

So if the pandemic get very bad I think I'll just draw up the drawbridge and stay in the house.

Goodness this is a mess for us all isn't it! If we dont already have enough to worry about being pregnant now we have to put ourselves through all this stress. Just an FYI but here in Portugal they are only offering it to women in their 2nd and 3rd trimester. As I am still in my 1st I have to wait. I did ask my OB last week and he said that although he did not think the vaccine was unsafe he did think that all the hype was completley out of proportion to the actual situation and that I shouldn't worry. As I am such early days in this pregnancy I am trying to just avoid crowded places and am washing my hands all the time!! That said I have delayed sending my 2 year old to nursery for the time being. Are young kids top priority for the vaccine in the UK?

It is really interesting and I really feel that mumsnet is the only place where I can actually get any information about this subject.

Just to highlight one point, though. The danger of a virus when pregnant is not feeling ill during labour. It is also a total fallacy that women are 'healthier' (glowing etc) during pregnancy. As beautiful as we may look, it is important to note that the immune system is supressed (so the body does not reject the baby), which is why the food rules apply, which is why toxoplasmosis, parvovirus and the flu viruses are dangerous. Are bodies won't (necessarily) fight them as effectively and infections will cross the placenta to the vulnerable foetus. The consequences (rarely) can be stillbirth.

So whether you agree with the jab or not, this is the what the medics are worried about regarding the danger of viruses.

Anyone had the jab yet? Anyone had their invite

Family in Canada are having theirs now and having to wait hours and hours in line to get it!

Just to echo mistletoekisses' post (Wed 28th @ 15:53) about being proactive if you decide to have the vaccine. My MW didn't mention the jab at my 36 wk appointment so I asked at the desk on my way out. The receptionist didn't know but checked the computer and found that they are running a SF vaccine clinic on the 11th Nov., letters will be going out but anyone wanting the jab could make an appointment now.

I made my appointment for the 11th because I am due about ten days after that and if I wait for a letter, for all I know the clinic could be full by then. I will keep an eye on this thread between now and then as it has been really informative and helped me to near a decision. I say near because I could still take fright and cancel - am pretty sure I will have it though as things stand.

I also agree with thedollshouse about wanting an honest summary as I have come to the conclusion that whilst nothing is completely risk free, I feel that the risk from SF is higher than from the vaccine. It has been interesting to find out that the The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation recommended two years ago that pregnant women be given the seasonal flu jab but the government didn't take it up because they didn't think it would be cost-effective. Also interesting to hear that there is statistically more risk of Guillan-Barre from flu itself than from the vaccine, and midnightsun's information about mercury. These were issues I was clueless about a couple of weeks ago and it has been good to gather enough information to make a decision that I feel reasonably happy with. Wishing good luck to everyone trying to make this difficult decision and thanks to the OP and everyone posting information and opinions on this.

laurawantsababy I had it (Pandemrix) two days ago but not in the UK, in Scandinavia.

Have been feeling a bit under the weather as if I am about to come down with something, slight headache for a couple of days and also local arm pain but nothing too bad, I've been at work same as usual. And my baby has been kicking and moving around the usual amount.

midnightsun - Lucky you! I really want mine now.

Sounds like you are ok from it so fingers crossed everyone else will be the same.

Going to phone my GPs now to see when mine will be.

I just read in a swiss newspaper that Swissmedic (Swiss institute of therapeutic products) had not authorised the use of Pandemrix for pregnant women because of lack of information:
www.tdg.ch/grippe-porcine-vaccination-commencer-2009-10-30
This kind of news just makes me even more perplexed... (Sorry the article is in french)

crikey im so up and down. I asked my GP this morning and she knew as much as i did about the vaccine- ie hardly anything!! they are going to start offering it next monday. one minute im for it, the next im not. My biggest fear is having the baby then getting the flu and passing it on.
Does the vaccine protect the baby after the birth? And has anyone read or heard anything about women who have had the vaccine and then gone on to have healthy babies? I suppose its only just been given out so too early for that info.

Had my 24 week ante-natal appointment with my GP yesterday. GP brought up the subject of the vacine, and said that the practice should get its allocation next week (should have been this week but has been a delay) and that pregnant women and children with underlying medical conditions (including asthma) were 1st priority. I will be going next week for mine.Dr was quite matter of fact about vacine in that she wants as many people vacinated as possible. I live in west of Scotland, schools have been back since mid august and (this is entirely anecdotel) school absences in DS primary school and other local primary schools have jumped. MIL is a primary school teacher and the chat in the staffroom is that if not swine flu, a virus which includes high temp, cough, sorethroat is sweeping round. Of course, this could just be usual post mid term random virus but i think i'd rather be safe than sorry.
ps sorry for rubbish spelling, long day with no compensatory G&T.

14 weeks and definately won't be having it.

BellasYummyMummy Yes you will transmit immune protection/antibodies to your baby in the womb. That is one of the benefits of vaccination. I don't know exactly how long it lasts but have read that it is several months after birth, with higher level of antibody protection and longer-lasting if you also breastfeed. I can't find anything authoritative on how quickly after vaccination the baby is protected but have read it gets to work immediately and the baby gets max protection a week later.

thanks midnightsun

Then I read that the vaccine is safe for pregnant women on SkyNews:
news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Swine-Flu-H1N1-Vaccine-Safe-For-Pregnant-Women -Says-World-Health-Organisation/Article/200910415425864?lpos=WorldNewsFirstHomeArticleTeaserRe gion5&lid=ARTICLE15425864SwineFluH1N1VaccineSafeForPregnantWomenSaysWorldHealthOrganis ation
With all that have been reading here, I oscillate more towards having it today but news and opinions, sometimes expert opinions, are so divided that I am quite sure I will be changing my mind again tomorrow...

alyonor the Swiss authorities have no objections to the two Swiss-produced vaccines (manufactured by Novartis), though, I notice...

online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20091030-706598.html

From my point of view this development doesn't make any difference to the safety of Pandemrix. Because they have an alternative round the corner, they have the luxury of being picky about which of the vaccines they'll give to pregnant, women, children and the elderly.

The following advisory came today on the WHO website detailing the latest recommendations from The Strategic Advisory Group of Experts (SAGE) on Immunization, which advises WHO on policies and strategies for vaccines and immunization.

www.who.int/csr/disease/swineflu/notes/briefing_20091030/en/index.html

"Concerning vaccines for pregnant women, SAGE noted that studies in experimental animals using live attenuated vaccines and non-adjuvanted or adjuvanted inactivated vaccines found no evidence of direct or indirect harmful effects on fertility, pregnancy, development of the embryo or fetus, birthing, or post-natal development"

"Based on these data and the substantially elevated risk for a severe outcome in pregnant women infected with the pandemic virus, SAGE recommended that any licensed vaccine can be used in pregnant women, provided no specific contraindication has been identified by the regulatory authority." (italics and bold mine)

It also recommended that as many children in the 6 months to 10 years age group as possible are vaccinated because they have the highest risk of hospitalisation. The Advisory Group does indicate though a lack of data about whether children get sufficient immune protection after one dose or two.

I'll just repeat that bit for anyone scanning through and twisting themselves into knots about whether or not to have the vaccine if it has to be Pandemrix.

The WHO has been advised by its own Strategic Advisory Group of Experts on immunisation that no evidence of direct or indirect harmful effects were found on mother or baby in animal tests and based on that, along with the elevated risks of a sever outcome for a pregnant woman infected with the virus, they recommend that any licensed vaccine can be used in pregnant women

That is good to know, thanks midnightsun.
I am more reassured now than when I started reading this thread but I also noticed how so many other factors (political, economical, etc...) are influencing this issue and distorting a choice that should be easier to make than it is now (at least for me). Between the media counting every single death from the swine flu (while we know that the seasonal flu kills more but nobody bothers counting how many on a daily base because it doesn't make the headlines of the papers), the conspiracy theories on YouTube and disturbing investigation on the government contracts with the vaccine makers (in the french magazine Le Point for those who read french), the whole thing leaves the impression that we are all pressured by fear in taking this vaccine - maybe with good reason! - but it still leaves me with an uneasy feeling... I probably will take the vaccine but rather relunctantly.

I can understand your unease.

Myself though I just can't imagine who is pressurising a vaccine on anybody unless they see an actual health benefit for those taking it. The public health authorities in virtually every country with the resources to do it have nothing sinister to hide or gain from vaccinating their populations as far as I can see.

If the drug companies wanted to really milk it they'd have withheld the data suggesting that one dose was enough, rather than needing two etc.

It's hard. You can find convincing things to back up a case for and a case against and most people already have an inkling of what they want to do so when they read through this thread they are subconsciously registering everything that agrees with their gut feeling and not noticing as much the things that don't. It's human nature.

Hope some of the info is helpful for reassuring people who would like to be vaccinated but are a bit worried by the scare stories, though. I was/am in that category.