Quick poll - Pg ladies, how pg are you and will you be having the swine flu jab?

[laurawantsababy]

I am 25 weeks pg with dc2 and very confused.

After another death but with conflicting advice about the jab chosen for the UK what are we to do??

I would love you here everyones choice and thoughts on it to help me out.

Thanks

Just stumbled on this that has been updated today At the bottom it says women from 14 weeks pg to 6 weeks after birth should be vaccinated.

I don't mean to be really dense, and maybe this has already been discussed (have only skimmed this thread) but what are the possible dangers to the baby of having the vaccine? Or are they totally unknown? What does all this squalene/mercury concern potentially mean in practice?

Maybe I have misunderstood, but surely later in pregnancy the risks to the baby either from swine flu or from any vaccine are reduced as the baby is more fully formed, and even a premature birth would be survivable, though obviously undesirable?

I had the invitation letter today... Am 34 weeks and like lots of people on here keep swinging between 'definitely yes' and 'definitely no'. The third option being 'bury head in sand for 6 weeks'...

I'm an antenatal teacher and also 37 weeks pregnant. I won't be having it as 1) I don't think it's been tested enough, 2) I'd be worried about the effect of the mercury and 3) I'm hoping to give birth before it's available anyway.

For what it's worth, a woman in my classes had swine flu back in the summer (she must have been about 30 weeks pregnant at the time); she said it wasn't as bad as the last seasonal flu she had and had managed fine without anti-virals. Ironically she looked a lot better after she had it: a week of rest, away from the busy office she was working in at the time, had done wonders! But of course she wasn't part of any of the other at-risk groups. Very difficult decision for those of you who have other conditions...

I would certainly not have the swine flu jab or let my DS have it - just another case of the government herd immunity tactics. Yet again the masses are one big medical experiment.

i struggle with the economics of the situation - the government refused to contain SF [much more could have been done initially, screening people returning from Mexico, even banning travel to Mexico and the States] presumably because of cost, but now have had to pay huge amounts of money to pharmaceutical companies for the vaccine. This annoys me.

I went to my GP yesterday to advise her I am 6 weeks pregnant and asked her about this. She is 17 weeks pregnant and not having the jab. Basically she implied that she didn't feel swine flu was significantly different from any other type of flu which they don't vaccinate for. She implied she felt it was a government over reaction.
I'm still undecided but she swayed me. If she was decided not to go ahead even though she comes into contact with lots of patients..
Good luck with your decisions.

This Monday 26th on ITV a group of mums-to-be are getting together and having a discussion, with a leading flu expert. They are hoping to go to air with it at 1330 and 1830 on ITV. Worth Watching!

I have contacted various private doctors services who usually prove seasonal flu vaccinations to see if they are going to offer Cevalpan and basic response has been: "At the moment the swine flu vaccine is not available to the private sector. We do not yet know if we will be able to offer this in the future."

Looks like for the moment our only options in UK are Pandemrix or nothing - not great in light of WHO's warning on use of adjuvants with pregnant women.

i'm 25 weeks & will definately NOT be getting the jab, as i don't think it has been tested enough & am scared of the effects, that having the jab could have on my unborn child.

although i think i may be being a bit of a hypocrite, as i have a son with disabilities & i want him to be vaccinated, as i know the risk of him contracting the virus could be fatal, on the other hand so could it be the case for me & my unborn baby. i am so confused of what to do, but will just have to keep fingers crossed i don't get swine flu.

Thank you all for an incredibly useful and informative thread. Special props to midnightsun - you should get a special mumsnet award for you work here, both posting links and setting the tone of discussion. Far more people will have read than contributed, and I think this thread will have made a real difference to a lot of women in this invidious position.

I'm 28 weeks now and got my letter on weds. Here it is not being done at gp surgeries but in temporary health board "clinics" in leisure centres etc. I have to phone this coming week to make an appointment for the following week.

I had decided to go ahead and have the jab (not without misgivings) and reading the thread has confirmed me in that and calmed some of my fears. I have decided to have pandemrix rather than call on limited supplies of cevlapan.

I figure that entering third trimester just as 'flu season is getting going and being due after Christmas means I need to take the risks of the virus seriously despite never having had 'flu in my life and being generally very healthy.

At the end of my last pregnancy I got two nasty cold viruses back to back and got a full-on chest infection. Being laid so low at 38ish and 40 weeks was miserable and meant I went into labour in poor physical condition and having put almost no effort into optimal foetal positioning. Due to baby being transverse I ended up with sn emcs. I really want to avoid a similar (and potentially more dangerous) end to this pregnancy.

Good luck everyone with decisions

lovelybub there's nothing hypocritical about weighing the risks differently for you and for your son. This must be a very worrying time for you. I know where I live children with sn have now been made top priority and will be immunised very soon. Hopefully you will not have to wait long for your ds's jab.

See below re Celvapan, reported in the telegraph 23 Oct 2009. Interesting that one dose may be sufficient??.......

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6416254/Swine-flu-vaccine-dr ugs-regulator-casts-doubt-on-one-dose-schedule.html#

"The British government has also bought stock of Celvapan, made by Baxter, but supplies have not yet arrived. The drugs regulator has recommended that this is also used in a two-dose schedule.

The Committee's notes on Celvapan said: "For Celvapan, while the CHMP awaits further data, the dosage schedule remains as two doses, with a three-week interval, in all populations."

A spokesman for Baxter said: "Baxter has been granted marketing authorisation for Celvapan H1N1 pandemic vaccine and the current dosing schedule calls for two doses to be given 21 days apart.

"Baxter has submitted a variation to its Celvapan H1N1 vaccine EMEA licence seeking approval for a single dose use of this vaccine. We cannot speculate on the timing of when this will be approved."

Flowerface - the squalene and mercury points are as follows:

Squalene - banned in several countries, thought to be one of the chemicals causing 'Gulf War' syndrome.
Mercury - renowned for making you nuts, as in Mad Hatter (mercury was previously used in the hat-making process).

I think mercury is used as a stabiliser in vaccinations, esp. multi-dose, and is found in the ingredient thiomersal. Not sure if it was sensationalist but there was a post to a Times thread where one lady said to safely receive the amount of mercury in the swine flu jab you'd have to weigh 35 stone. This may have been the double dose but anyway that's the point. I am not planning to be vaccinated as don't like the idea of these chemicals swimming around me when el little one is still developing.

Also there have been clinical trials; ref this PDF from EMEA: www.emea.europa.eu/humandocs/PDFs/EPAR/pandemrix/emea-combined-h832en.pdf

Read section 4.2 - it basically says mainly going off results for H5N1 (bird flu) testing. It says there is limited data about immune response 3 weeks after single dose for H1N1 in adults age 18-65, although what there is isn't bad (98% adults protected).

One of the 'Very rare' side effects listed is this Guillane-Barr syndrome, which causes paralysis. I consider death by swine flu to be 'Very rare' and this is another reason I'm inclined not to have the jab. At least if I die my husband can re-marry.

It's hard though... I think the key is lungs. I think if asthmatic or a smoker/living with a smoker you would be much more at risk of complications from the virus. I live in London though and that's a right fug-tropolis! Who knows?

thank you skidoodle, yes it is a very worrying time for all of us, nobody knows which way to turn. x

Thank you to everyone who has posted lots of interesting information on here.

I am 27wks pg and asthmatic, I asked the asthma nurse at our surgery in the summer about the jabs and she said that there was initially supposed to be 2 jabs, the 1st gives 70% immunity and 2 gives you 95%. The NHS decided that a lot of people with 70% immunity was better than a few with 95% immunity. I'm not sure which jab this is, though.

Last week I spoke to my gp about the jab and she said she would definitely recommend it for me because:

1. I am pregnant and so at higher risk (also about to enter 3rd trimester which is most risky)
2. I am asthmatic and so also at higher risk (a year ago I had seasonal flu and a severe chest infection, very unpleasant!)
3. I am a high risk pregnancy with a history of complications
4. I have a pre-school child and am so encountering more germs/viruses

I am also concerned about dd who is asthmatic and was hospitalised in July with just a cold. We are now eating loads of veg/fruit, manuka honey and washing our hands loads to help reduce the risk.

I completely understand if you are pg and fit and well you might choose a different option. It is a tough call.

My mum was at a nursing conference this week, and as part of the daily-changing advice, she said that 'they' (whomever 'they' are) are now recommending the egg- and adjuvant-free vaccine for pregnant women which should become available 'shortly'. In the meantime we are recommended to take the adjuvant version if offered.

Sorry I can't be more precise than this.

yes, I would like to ecco what skidoodle said:

A special thanks to midnightsun - for you work here, both posting links and setting the tone of discussion. Far more people will have read than contributed, and I think this thread will have made a real difference to a lot of women in this invidious position.

Something worth taking into account:

Women who get the vaccine while pregnant confer six months' immunity on their newborn, which will see them through the worst months of the spread of the disease.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/swine-flu-kills-irish-teenager-as-motherto be-fights-for-life-14542080.html

EmmaCate just clarifying a couple of things in your post.

Mercury is a preservative in the sense that it is antibacterial and prevents bacteria from the air infecting the ten-vial dose of Pandemrix.

The mercury level in Pandemrix (2.5 micrograms) is the Federal Drugs Agency's weekly reference dose (i.e. safe over a lifetime) for someone who weighs 25kg, about 4 stone. The reference dose is an equation: 0.1 microgram per kg of body weight per week. A person weighing 35 stone (210kg) can afford to safely ingest 21 micrograms of mercury (8 doses of Pandemrix) every week for life without it causing harm, according to the USA's FDA which is pretty strict on these things.

Also, New Scientist quotes research which says that the risk of developing Guillain?Barré syndrome from influensa is 40 in a million while the chance of developing it from the vaccine is 2 in a million or less. GBS can be fatal but not always, nor does it always cause paralysis, and many people recover fully from it. The most common cause of GBS is Campylobacter jejuni bacterial infection, which is the most common cause of human food poisoning in the world. Eating infected poorly cooked eggs is one of the worst culprits.

I have no evidence for or against mercury makes people turn into mad hatters...!

Sorry that should have said ten-dose vial in line 2.

The mere thought of a ten-vial dose gives me arm-ache and brings me out in a queasy needle-phobic perspiration.

Thanks for the shout-outs beachedwhalenow and skidoodle I'm glad my obsessive reading up on flu and vaccines has been of interest or use to others. I can certainly vouch for the danger associated with over consumption of swine flu information leading to mad hatter tendencies.

My rhetorical random thought for the day today is, would people in general take the threat of this virus more seriously if it was not called something with "flu" in the name? Something in even my fairly vaccine-convinced mind keeps whispering "Oh for God's sake, it's only the flu. If you get it you'll just go to bed for a week, stay calm and then carry on, you big wet blanket."

Does anyone know why the same vaccine (Pandermix)sometimes is given once and sometimes twice, in different countries?

In Sweden for instance, Pandermix is used for the vaccination of pregnant women but is given twice, with an interval of three weeks.

Ninni I think in all the mock vaccine tests pre-swine flu outbreak they expected that two doses 3 weeks apart would be required for full immune response in both adults and children. But since manufacture they have tested antibody levels post vaccine doses and found that with adults one dose is enough. The guidelines have been changed relatively recently so it's possible the earliest customers of the vaccine are going by the initial instructions.

Kids 9 and under still need two doses 3 weeks apart for the same level of immunity as an adult with one dose, I understand.

Here is a link to a Reuters report about the single does - two dose debate.

www.reuters.com/article/rbssPharmaceuticals%20-%20Diversified/idUSLN35894620091023

The EU watchdog thinks two doses is better however
"in the past couple of months various clinical trials have suggested one dose may suffice."

"As a result, many governments are now planning to give adults a single shot -- thereby stretching supplies and cutting costs."

There's the answer...