Dealing with Termination

[marj1]

I've been reading threads for a couple of weeks, especially Busierbee and Linspins and have eventually plucked up the courage to post.

I had a termination on 23 March, I was 18 weeks and 5 days pregnant. I had my triple test on 11 February and it came back that my chance of having a downs child was 1:170, not fantastic but not awful either. However, I miscarried back in 2006 at 11 weeks and the doctors felt that child also had downs so Hubby and I had already discussed options before becoming pregnant and knew we would want an amnio to know for sure. I had the amnio on 2 March, which in itself was horrendous as it took 4 hours and 4 attempts. I spent the next 2 days working from home taking it easy and felt fine. The first week waiting for the results went by quickly the 2nd week dragged and every day I'd hope the post would come. If I got a letter the results were fine, if I got a phone call from hospital it was bad news. During this time I had an appointment to see my consultant and I was booked in for my c-section on 11 August.

On Monday 16 March I got the phone call I'd been dreading, the result was positive the baby I was carrying had downs. I was heartbroken, we hadn't told anyone about being pregnant, we wanted to wait until we knew everything was OK. We hadn't even told our 7 year old daughter who is desparate for a brother or sister. I felt like my life had ended but we'd already made the decision to terminate. You see I suffered very bad post-natal depression and only came off my anti-depressants in December when I found out I was pregnant. When I say bad I mean bad, at times I considered suicide and my counsellor wanted to section me. For me to have a healthy baby would mean struggling with my emotions so to have one who needed all my care and attention would not have been fair on me, my hubby or daughter.

I spent the next couple of days crying, wanting to know why me, all the usual emotions. Going to the hospital for the termination was the worst thing ever, I cryed all the way there and was beside myself when I got there. The midwifes were fantastic and let me calm down before they came to talk to me and we started the process. The next couple of hours are a bit of a morpheine blur and at 7.10pm our son, Joseph was born. He looked so perfect but I felt a strange sense of peace. It wasn't until I got home 2 days later it hit me. I've killed our baby, I can't get it out of my head. I feel distraught, I want my baby back in my tummy, I want me boobs to hurt again, I want it all to be OK. I feel I don't want to talk to anyone about it as I can't stop crying. Hubby is being a tower of strength and he keeps saying we made the decision which was right for our family and I know he's right but that feeling of having this little being inside you kicking and then it not being there is just too awful for words. I feel isolated, I feel alone, I feel why has it had to happen to me, have I been so bad. I only know one person who's ever had an amnio let alone have to make decisions like we've made in the last couple of weeks. I don't know how to deal with things, I don't know if I'll smile again. If I'd had a miscarriage I think I could have dealt with it easier because I have no control over that but I had control and chose to end my pregnancy. The pain is horrendous it feels like my heart has been ripped out. I'm 40 this year, so I feel my time is running out to have another child and of course your risk of having another downs child increases after you've had one (or possibly two in my case). I know Busierbee and Linspins have been through simialr things and I know exactly what they are going through and my heart goes out to them and anyone else in my situation.

I would have been 22 weeks pregnant on Wednesday this week and had my 20 week scan booked in. Every day is a struggle, I cry as soon as I wake up and cry myself to sleep for what I've lost. Beforehand I never imagined my feelings would have been this strong. We've still got Joseph's funeral to go through, which thankfully the hospital are organising. I don't think my life will ever be the same again ....

Good grief - what a lot to go through. I really, really feel for you Marj.

I cannot believe what thoughtless comments were made above. Really, have some people no compassion?

I hope that you and your family get though this difficult time in whatever way seems best for you.

Keep strong. My thoughts are with you

xx

Marj - don't listen to those people. It's so easy to take some sort of moral high ground and ignore the complications that life brings. Most people are not like that, but the idiots that are make it difficult for the rest of us to speak truly.

Lots of lots of people have and would make the same decision as you. Many mums I know with special needs children say (once they know you're not one of Them) that they would have terminated had they known. Everyone has to make their own decision and you made yours for yourself, together with your dh, for your family. I do so hope that you are able to have another baby, but don't feel it's the be-all and end-all. You are so lucky to have each other already - your strong little unit together against the world. Work through your grief, talk to a counsellor, good friends and the lovely people on mn. And try and push all the darkness out with the beautiful love you have for your dh and your dd. It might sound corny, but it's now I visualised it and it works for me.

Take good care of yourself xx

there is such a variation in the severity of DS that mamulik has shown her ignorance in posting what she did

as has nontoxic

my advice would be to grieve and take as much counselling as you cna get

there would never have been an easy outcome and you did what ws right for you and your family

have you considered doing some sort of memorial for your baby?

does the hospital do a funeral/rememberance service?

there might be a bereavement MW to talk to

Marj and everyone
The more i think about it the more i realise that the thoughtless comments are red herrings. WHO CARES WHAT THEY THINK? Really - who are they?
So let's stop engaging with them - they are not real friends or real people and let's concentrate on you and helping you through this terrible time.
You are not a bad person - you have faced a terrible decision and dealt with it with humanity and doubt and real womanness.
We will catch you when you tumble.
Hold onto yourself dear girl

shame on those two. How easy to sit at home and judge someone asking for help.

Actually does anyone know how to have a post removed? I really think that a mum in need can read so much into comments like those - can we have them removed? Ignorant insensitive damaging posts like that are the last thing Marj should have to endure.
She has endured enough.

I'm so sorry to hear what you've been through. I'm totally disgusted by some of the nasty, insensitive comments. You have to try to keep strong by remembering that you and your husband made this really difficult decision after much soul searching because you felt it was the best thing for you. I know that faced with the decision I would have done the same thing. Maybe some people are more aware and in touch with their abilities and limitations than others. You've been realy brave and I hope things become easier for you soon.
I have a friend who has two adult siblings who suffer from Downs. Her parents are both dead and her brother and sister live with her and require her care and attention. She is almost 40 and says that she loves them dearly but has a parental role she wouldn't have chosen. She isn't married, has no partner or children of her own.
These difficult decisions affect people other than you and your husband. I admire your bravery.

you could report them via the red exclamation point, but not sure if they would be deleted as not a personal attack. but could be construed as offensive. you could report to MNHQ and they will consider. but won;t get immediate reply as it is a bank holiday

you can click on 'report post'and ask for it to be removed. It will be at the discretion of MNHQ though.

Absolutely. How utterly horrible that people would try to make poor Marj feel even worse. I don't imagine you could feel any worse Marj but I don't suppose such crass, nasty judgements help either. Anyway, agree with Busierbee - they are not worth the attention so I will move onto what is far more important: FWIW I just wanted to let you know how sad I am for you, my heart just aches for you. Your sorrow just jumps off the page, you poor poor love I haven't been in your situation and I can't think of anything anywhere near as eloquent to say as the things some people have posted on here but I wanted to let you know that I feel for you and am thinking of you x

Hi, I am so sorry for you, I hope you are still reading after the less than helpful posts earlier.

Unless you have had to make the decision noone knows that heartbreak you have to go through.

I have been through the same 9years ago and you WILL laugh again and you WILL be happy again. At the moment it is all you think about and I would say let yourself cry whenever you want, it has to come out and if you let it out then you're a step nearer to not crying one day (that was what I used to think). I cried and cried and cried and the pain was so physical it hurt so much.

You have to think that you made the decision you felt was right for you and your family, nobody else knows that but you. If must always remember that. Your DH sounds lovely and supportive.

Please really look after yourself, you need lots of care and you do anything that may make you feel better. You will feel better one day, I promise.

I also found eventually a few months down the line having a memorial plate in the memorial garden at the local graveyard of the crematorium really helpful. I could visit and take flowers and he became real to me, my son.

Have reported these two threads and if anyone else wanted to ... I think would help Marj as otherwise she will be scared to read her own thread.
Hope that is okay with you Marj and you do not feel am imposing my own indignation at their self righteousness. But am so feeling your pain and wanting you to know we, some of us, do understand.
Cry away - I like that notion of the more tears you shed the nearer you get to recovery of some sort.
Golly. BB xxxxxxx

Marj1,
Just sending you more hugs, gentle stokes on the forehead and pats on the arm, to counteract the mean-ness shown before by two silly (and in my opinion vicious) women who don't deserve page space. Ignore them and read all the lovely postings here.
I hope you are still reading your thread.
You mentioned that you are going to Joseph's funeral. Do you have a date? When we had our service for Amy, I was so lost in grief and darkness that I didn't think about having any imput. Now, for Daisy, we have chosen two poems and a song. I know from experience that doing things that are tangible help to make your baby 'real' and help to give you something to hold on to in the future. We've planted a tree for Amy, and this year my toddler help us set off two balloons, to heaven, for my angels. I have 'memory boxes' for them both with scan pics, pregnancy notes, cards we were sent, photos of their flowers, in. I am even thinking about printing out the thread where lovely mums helped me right from the moment of panic of a high nuchal reading.
It took me about 6 months to really hit rock bottom the first time round. Then I had some counselling, went to some Sands meetings, used the ARC parents forum, and began to pull myself out of the awfulness of it all.
But right at the beginning it is just a matter of getting through each day, each hour and each minute.
If you look on BusierBee's thread, there are lots of lovely comments about being gentle with yourself, and surrounding yourself with soft things.
You wrote that you suffered bad post natal depression, so hopefully you have a support network/counselling that could help you if you feel the depression lowering again, but also remember that depression and grief are not the same (although sometimes interlinked). Can't quite explain what I'm trying to say - maybe that grief has stages, and a 'reason' and however hellish, it is a natural process. But very hard.
Thinking of you, hope you will write and let us know how you are.
Love Lins xx

Marj1

Your post has brought tears to my eyes too. I had a termination in Nov last year at 13 weeks for the same reasons. I completely understand what you're saying about killing your baby - I felt exactly the same way when I wasn't obsessing about being pregnant again - so no rest, no peace, no space to reflect, just some kind of madness. But I know my mind, I know my family, I know who I am and I know I did the right thing. Its just the hardest thing in the world.

Its the worse kind of guilt and could eat you up - I really think it would help if you could talk to a councellor - someone you can tell your absolute darkest and deepest thoughts to who will allow you to say exactly what you want, accept you and not judge what you did or what you feel. I think if you don't have a space to talk about how you feel it comes out sideways, often hurting you more. I know I've had days where I've felt so useless and depressed its been intolerable. Are you back on medication - maybe this would help.

My heart goes out to you and its good to hear your husband is strong and sure - mine was too and its so important to have that support. You will get through this but make sure you get the right help. xx

yep springtime is right - and as for the delightful nontoxi and mamaluk shaem on you .. fucking easy to be judgemental when you've not in her shoes.

Keep posting marj - not of all of us are like that. And indecisivemum is right - you do learn to live with it.

We are all thinking of you Marj, even those of us who can't possibly understand what you're going through. Your story has really affected me and those (very few) judgemental responses to someone so obviously in dreadful grief and sorrow have made me feel so outraged for you and others who have had to suffer something so unthinkable. I really do hope that things become more bearable for you and that you are able to find solace in your family and the peace that you deserve.

Hello Marj
Busier bee here again - not to pester you but to reach out and offer comfort and sisterly compassion and moans and aches of I know I know. It is destroying this feeling but let's see if we can pull each other through. I know some of your posters from my thread and look here they are again offering kind words and empathy. Poppy34 has even used the F word she is so angry on your behalf.
Take each breath as it comes, soon it will be each minute then each hour and finally in a long long time from now you may have a morning or day where you feel okay and smile and feel smiley inside.
Until that day we are here.
try and sleep and do not fight the tears - there is no point, they are real and necessary and needed
Big hugs
xx

Nontoxi and Mamaluk disgust me. If they disapprove why can't they just leave their opinions to themselves rather than coming on here and making sarcastic and hurtful comments towards someone who is already so vulnerable and distressed.

Btw, there is actually a term for what their attitude seeks to do to marj's suffering: "disenfranchised grief"

Hi Marj1, BusierBee always puts it so well it is one minute at a time. I hope you are surviving, and we are all here for you.
Just wanted to say goodnight and let you know you are not alone. xxxLins

Marj1 - Just thinking of you today and hope you are feeling a little better. Ignore those who judge - they just are not worth it - supportive friends don't judge (even if they may choose a different path). Life will get better but it takes time (and time will seem to be on a go slow). Its only 8mths since we ssid goodbye to our son James and its only now that I'm starting to feel more optamistic and cheerful - you will feel better but it takes time you have been through a breavement and that takes a lot of dealing with and a lot of different emotions. The pain changes with time and does become more bearable. Take care of yourself and sending you hugs and kind wishes.

Hello Marj and other friends of Marj
Rather oddly my own thread will not work for me at the moment - it is stuck.
Rather upsetting me but maybe it is too big. Wanted to say Marj that two weeks ago i could barely breathe with sorrow. I could only sob and cry and wail and shut out the world. I almost miss that phase as at least was feeling. Am now functioning better but feel then more disconnected from the baby.
What i am trying to say is... I think it will shift for you and it may take longer or the pattern may be different.
You are probably traumatised. Of course you are really.
So i do hope you are still reading this as would hate to think you are struggling alone.
Sending you teary cuddles
BB

Marj - I hope you come back and read the amount of support and compassion on here from people who really do care and feel huge sympathy for the situation you are in. I really hope you are managing your grief and that you are getting through each day as best as you can. Its been 3 and a half years since we lost our middle son Henry. I terminated at 21 weeks after confirmation of genetic abnormalities. Its such a cruel twist of fate and such a heartbreaking decision that I dont think people can truly understand the range of emotions until you've been there. But things do get easier and you can cope with the grief. Despite a 25% chance of the problem occuring again I've gnoe on to have another little boy and we are even considering trying once more. Provided you feel able to face this again, then its not too late as you said in your OP.

Thinking of you are this awful time and take time out to really enjoy DD.