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Pregnancy

Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

Original poster

alcohol, I know it's been done to death but would like some advice...

83 replies

minxofmancunia · 09/04/2009 14:32

Am 18 weeks pg with number 2, so far this pg have had 3x small glasses of wine and 1 half a lager (on 4 separate occassions!)

Had the half last night with a curry, friend is coming for dinner tonight and will fancy a small (125ml I measure them out) glass of wine. Socilising again on Fri so was wondering if another glass of wine then would be too much.

That will be it for a while though, maybe a couple of weeks.

What do people think? There are such conflicting views and opinions everywhere. All i know is I didn't find out I was pg with dd until 8 weeks in and had been driknig like a fish the whole time (xmas parties, new year etc.). Felt incredibly guilty and abstained for the rest of pg bar a couple of glasses when I went overdue, dd was a happy accident, this oneis planned so have been good! dd was quite little when born though (although not low birthweigt) and had early jaundice and was poorly. She's fine now but have never forgiven myself, may be why I'm seeking reassurance!

OP posts:
Longtalljosie · 10/04/2009 09:04

Joanneg20 - I don't want to freak you out but there was another poster on here just the other day whose friend went to France and ate all the cheeses, and her baby was born blind in one eye; the first thing the doctor said to her was, "have you been to France?". Clearly her friend was very unlucky, but just because something feels ok, I'm not sure that's enough. Don't get me wrong, I dream of Stilton and Camembert. And I'm far from perfect -esp when my poached egg is a little moist in the middle...

We all know, and understand, that alcohol is harmful in excess, and by excess for pregnant people we're talking more than a glass (which nowadays with stronger wine is nearer 2 units than one) a week. But there is good scientific advice behind the rest of the advice as well. The best of which is on the very sensible FSA website.

OonaghBhuna · 10/04/2009 09:56

I wouldnt because there isnt enough research and they are constantly changing the advice. However you wouldnt give a newborn a bit of wine in its bottle, what is the difference when the baby is in the womb? When it is depending on everything the mother eats and drinks? Thats why I dont drink anything. I have champagne waiting in the fridge for later in the year!

Nekabu · 10/04/2009 09:57

"the first thing the doctor said to her was, "have you been to France?".

I just don't understand why any doctor would come out with that? Is France full of one eyed people; I don't think so! Had it been proved what caused the blindness? I think toxoplasmosis was mentioned (though I don't recall if it was confirmed to be the cause) but as another poster said, their vet friend said the main cause of that is gardening and unearthing aged cat poos that have 'seeded'. I just don't understand why any doctor would turn around and effectively put the blame for a baby being born blind in one eye squarely on the mother without any evidence. If it was toxoplasmosis (though I thought it was toxcara that caused blindness?) then the mother could have caught it from weeding.

I've been sticking to the food guidelines too as I think it's sensible to do so but I think that doctor was well out of order.

Nekabu · 10/04/2009 09:58

"what is the difference when the baby is in the womb?"

The placenta. I wouldn't give it a dollop of curry either but I've been eating that ...

OonaghBhuna · 10/04/2009 10:01

I dont think you can really compare wine to curry.....Have a look at the fetal alcohol syndrome website and it would put anyone off having a drink.
I think its up to individual choice but I dont think there is enough info for people and the info offered is confusing.

Longtalljosie · 10/04/2009 11:06

Ah yes, that cat poo person was me! But the story did bother me regardless, and has stayed on my mind...

Longtalljosie · 10/04/2009 11:12

As far as Fetal Alcohol Syndrome is concerned though, I do rather feel if the low amounts we're discussing at the moment caused it, there would be more people born in the 70s with FAS than without it....

Nekabu · 10/04/2009 11:33

Longtalljosie, see I was paying attention! I am being very good and wearing gloves when gardening but my cats do use a litter tray anyway as I loathe finding cat poo in the soil when I'm weeding!

OonaghBhuna, I know wine isn't the same as curry and am not suggesting people neck it down by the gallon but having something to eat or drink isn't the same as giving it directly to a baby and so the comparison (which many people do make) isn't that accurate.

From the stuff I've read I don't think my baby will be at risk of getting FAS from me having 1-2 units a week (not every week) and that's what I based my decision on.

BeckyBendyLegs · 10/04/2009 11:38

This debate could go on for ever...

We could all live in isolation from sheep, cats, soft cheese, weeding the garden, curry, the odd glass of wine, and just eat oranic lettuce leaves and lentils but that's hardly realistic or much fun.

mrsboogie · 10/04/2009 11:53

You wouldn't give a newborn baby tea in a bottle either or orange juice so that argument is a bit silly. Drinking wine while pregnant is not the same as giving it to a baby to drink.

FAS is caused by prolonged heavy drinking in pregnancy and only someone with a serious problem would knowingly do that. I'm sure that more women drink in early pregnancy before they get a bfp or even suspect than don't. Lots of them drink heavily. If the unborn baby was that sensitive to alcohol half the population would be born with FAS.

I had two glasses of red wine a week from the second trimester onwards. I would buy a good bottle and make a glass last for 2 hours. I really enjoyed it and it was very relaxing after a hard week at work. When it was the height of summer I used to crave a g and t but I wouldn't have one as it seemed wrong but a nice glass of red did no end of good.

There is even some recent research that said that the sons of women who drank small amounts of red wine in pregnancy actually do better than those that remain teetotal. Now it may be that there are other reasons for this (socio economic class or diet) but no research has ever shown that a small amount does any harm.

sarah293 · 10/04/2009 11:57

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solidgoldshaggingbunnies · 10/04/2009 12:03

Much of what is claimed about 'Foetal alcohol syndrome' is a mixture of not wanting to fund research into what does cause birth defects (so just blame the women) and wanting to control women in general - the scaremongering comes mainly from the US and is peddled in a lot of cases by antiabortionists who make a big deal out of 'foetal rights'. There do seem to be some conditions which are triggered by really heavy drinking in pregnancy (like a coule of bottles of vodka a day) all the rest of the vague lists of symptoms could be down to anything.
OH and that ' blind in one eye' story sounds like an urbanmyth to me - wasn't it a FOAF it happened to ie no confirmed evidence?
What I would say is: do what feels right for you. I drank fairly heavily while PG and DS is fine, advanced for his age even.

sarah293 · 10/04/2009 12:10

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solidgoldshaggingbunnies · 10/04/2009 13:11

It's not a case of not being 'able' to manage, Riven, it's a case of choosing to make your own decision about what is a reasonable risk to take. If someone chooses to eat Brie, Camembert or pate during pregnancy because she has decided that the risk of listeriosis is extremely low (which it is), people don't point and pull faces and insist she must be 'addicted' to cheese - though they may berate her for being 'selfish' ie forgetting that she's now public property and no longer a person.

OonaghBhuna · 10/04/2009 13:19

Mrs Boogie- we have to be careful how much caffeine we take daily aswell, so I dont think it is a silly arguement at all. Perhaps people drink alcohol when pregnant because the baby is out of sight.As for FAS it is a myth that it occurred more in the 70s there are still far too many cases of FAS today. There isnt enough research to account for the amount of alcohol which is safe in pregnancy, every human is different with different medical histories.

However there was new research recently stating that drinking alcohol in pregnancy gives the baby a taste for alcohol especially in later life. So its not just the damage to the unborn child that it may cause but it also can cause damage for events in later life.

mrsboogie · 10/04/2009 13:29

the research will never be clear that there is no risk from alcohol in pregnancy - as it is impossible to prove a negative.

There is no evidence what so ever, including the vast vast amount of anecdotal evidence of all those women who have drunk in early pregnancy, (which would be the most risky time)that drinking at anything less than at very heavy prolonged levels is harmful. This is not to say that getting drunk while pregnant is a good idea but it is the woman's choice as is what she eats etc.

But its not a question of managing without it for nine months -we know that caffeine is toxic and potentially bad for the foetus but it is considered fine to simply moderate your intake. Why is alcohol any different?

mrsboogie · 10/04/2009 13:39

I read that research about drinking giving babies a taste for it in later life. I found it quite hard to credit though as most people hate the taste of alcohol when they first try it and have to work at acquiring the taste for it. Drinking, like smoking, is one of those bad habits that actually require you to get over an initial dislike of the substance before you can get hooked.

What is silly is equating a pregnant woman's consumption of anything with giving the same thing directly to a baby. The placenta is there to filter out toxins and if it wasn't able to filter out alcohol there would be evidence of harm.

brettgirl2 · 10/04/2009 13:59

Oh for goodness sake. The whole world is full of risks. What about the petrol fumes/chemicals we breathe in/magnetic fields/everything we eat/flouride in water - I could go on and on.

A couple of small glasses of wine a week are not going to do any harm. By all means abstein if that's what you want to do but don't start having a go at others for not being able 'to manage without alcohol' for nine months. It's down to personal choice.

To the OP - I would drink the two small glasses personally but wouldn't drink any more for a week.

OonaghBhuna · 10/04/2009 14:05

Mrs Boogie, maybe for you it takes an initial dislike of the substance but that is not the case for everyone.
Yes the placenta is there to filter out most toxins, but it still does not protect the baby from harmful substances, especially smoking and heavy drinking.

I dont think my arguement is silly at all.

joanneg20 · 10/04/2009 16:01

Only just caught up with all the new posts here!

If that camembert/blindness story is indeed true then obviously it is utterly tragic, but that still doesn't change the fact that the risk of anything bad happening as a result of eating soft cheese (or indeed having a very occasional glass of wine) is minute, and utterly insignificant when compared with the risk of all the tragic things that could happen over which you have no control and are far far more likely than listeria or FAS.

By all means, avoid alcohol and blue cheese -Riven has a point when she says it's only 9 months, so why not? - but don't kid yourself that you're doing anything other than assuming control over probably less than 0.01% of the bad things that could happen during pregnancy. It's each woman's right to weigh up what sacrifices she is or isn't willing to make. For example, I could quite easily avoid the majority of car journeys (I live in London, and can get virtually everywhere I need to by tube) but I don't. And you can be sure that the risk to my baby every time I get in a car is a hundred times higher than any risk from eating a piece of stilton.

stanausauruswrecks · 10/04/2009 16:04

FWIW, I didn't know I was pg with DS until about 8 weeks - they coincided with probably the booziest 8 weeks of my life so far Xmas Grin He weighed 9lb 3oz and is absolutely fine. I spoke to the medical team at the EPAU at the time I discovered I was pregnant, and they weren't worried about the amount of alcohol I'd consumed - they felt it would obviously be more of a concern if I had carried on drinking at that rate!
In my opinion you'd be fine having your glass of wine with dinner, and having another one on Friday - I'm pretty sure you won't be necking it back in one go, so one unit of alcohol over the course of an evening means you'll have a negligible amount of alcohol in your blood stream (because the liver will start to process the alcohol gets there IYSWIM)

sarah293 · 10/04/2009 17:44

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mrsboogie · 10/04/2009 17:55

riven if something goes wrong (and it has for me - I had a m m/c) surely you wouldn't think that a glass of wine was the cause?

mrsboogie · 10/04/2009 18:01

oonabhuna the placenta does protect the baby from the effects of smoking (which I would never do in any case) and alcohol to a very significant degree. All the evidence shows that its only when a woman regularly drinks a LOT when she is pregnant that the alcohol can damage the baby.

OonaghBhuna · 10/04/2009 18:11

Mrs Boogie, I understand what you are saying and I have friends who have wine when pregnant and I know its a personal choice. However for me what equates as alot? Everyone is different and everyone has a different tolerance to alcohol that is where I am coming from.

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