Aborting twins- Please read if you are open minded

[thepinkprincess]

I would just like to say firstly that im not a troll nor do I intend on offending anybody as I know that this is a rather taboo subject, Im just seeking advice.

Best mate found out shes pregnant around beginning of November (unplanned & shocked but happy and wanted to keep the baby. after having 1st scan a few weeks ago she was then told that shes carrying two babies both in different placentas and consived two days apart.

So the shock has now died down a bit and shes 14 weeks 1 with the first baby and 13 weeks 6 with the second, and really wants an abortion as she already has a dd who will be 2 the day before the twins are due. Also don't want three children at the age of 22 aswell as lots of other reasons. I said that im there for her no matter what her desition is. Her family are not being much support and keep telling her she has to keep the babies and its wrong if she gets rid of them, the one thing she going to do which I don't agree on is telling her mum that she MC

Surely if she makes an appointment to see the doctor soon she termination will take place in a week or two, Does anybody know how this will happen?, if she has to give birth I said that I'll be there, Iv tried looking up info online weather she will have to or not but no luck.

I understand that I may have upset some MN'ers but please this is my friends choice and I totally respect it - well not the lying to her mum. I do not wish to receive nasty comments about my mate.

Perhaps if her mum was willing to take on some of the caring for them...who knows...I am so sorry.

Is there any way you could facilitate a meeting between her and her mum and sit them together and discuss her fears?

Whomovedmychocolate...

Your posts are very articulate and well thought out.

ThePinkPrincess - I think honesty is the only way your friend is going to get through this. She needs to sit and talk to her mum and agree an outcome from that.

The dad, I have to say, wouldn't be my choice of partner or father, but that's probalby best saved for a different time / thread.

So sorry your friend is in this situation but glad she has a good friend like you to support her.

I've no advice to give but hope you can find some here amongst those that have ignored your plea for people not to be judgemental.

Thanks SeriousSanta - sorry you have been faced with such a hard choice in your life too - life does tend to flick the shit up at the windshield when you least expect it doesn't it?

Isn't it incredibly, incredibly rare for a 'twin' pregnancy to be two babies concieved days apart? Like, rarer than being shot in the head and surviving it?

I am not accusing the OP of trolling, just thinking that there may be something odd about this situation such as: the PG friend has had sex with someone other than her partner (which she is not willing to admit) and thinks that she is therefore PG by two men, hence all the panic and wanting to terminate. My advice is that she should seek immediate counselling from the likes of Marie Stopes/BPAS and that she should go to the counselling appointment alone. SUpportive family can be great but if there are some issues she can't/won't tell them about she needs to talk privately to an impartial counsellor.

Your friend needs to make an appt with GP or FPC and start the ball rolling if this is what she wants. It wont be easy but she'll get over it especially if she is confident in her decision.
On the one hand I would say that she should go along with telling her mother it was a MC if thats what will make it easier for her, she has enought o deal with and think about without having to deal with her mothers emotions on the subject too, but on the other hand i would worry that it would lead to conflict, the having to pretend to grieve, to welcome condolences etc.
I'm pleased she has a friend to help her and to confide in. She shouldn't let thoughts of the procedure worry her unnecessarily - the main thing is that she makes the right choice (or the best choice she can, sometimes there is no right answer)and puts the wheels in motion.
All the best to your friend.

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Pruners - you are very brave to recount such a terrible experience.

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I don't think it's that rare to have two babies conceived a couple of days apart (often discovered because there are two fathers). Certainly not common, but more common than being shot in the head & surviving. I am a little surprised that it's been guessed at though - it's hardly a big enough difference in measurements to mean anything, let alone be worth mentioning. I think that the suggestion that perhaps she is worried about another potential father may not be that far off the mark, perhaps?

I also agree with other posters that she does seem to want the babies on some level. & although I'm not opposed to abortion in itself, I'm opposed to the idea of somebody terminating a pregnancy when they're not 100% sure that they want to, if only because of the future emotional implications. She seems to need more time (time that isn't really available at this point) & I would, as others have, strongly advise her to consider adoption as an alternative if she really can't keep them.

Sorry Pruners, thats truly awful.

The procedure offered can vary depending on the clinic, including NHS clinics.
Some offer only the surgical procedure under GA from as early as 9 weeks.
It's really not worth trying to second guess it, your friend just wont know until she amkes the decision and the process is started. Thats why I feel she shouldn't get too hung up on the details - just have faith that they know what they are doing.

I believe Perfectly possible to concieve the twins at different times and have a few days between them in age. 1 egg released from each ovary, which the sperm then have 3 days or so to fertilise [very UNLIKELY to happen at the same moment], plus a couple of days then for each egg to implant. Non-identical twins are two independant seperate pregnancies running at the same time and so are unlikely to be EXACTLY the same age.

Not that that affects the discussion - but might inform the person this is happening too.

The different dates only relate to the size of the babies. So one set of measurements equals average size for 13+5 and the second lot of measurements for the second baby equals average measurements for 14 weeks. They were concieved at the same time but are slightly different sizes. If this is your friend's worry then she has nothing to worry about.

Am glad your friend has you to confide in - what a horrible and worrying decision for her. Lilihood is that she will have to go through a birth after being given a drug to bring the labour on - she's too far advanced for a D+C. The babies won't need anything to induce death before birth as they will die during or just after birth (sorry to sound graphic and horrible - just trying to say what happens).

It sounds like your friend needs to talk this out a bit more before making any decision. Wishing her peace.

I'm currently 32 weeks with non-id twins - no, it's not that rare for twins formed from two eggs and two sperm to be a few days apart in age, sperm can live in the body for several days and eggs can be released at diferent times in a womans cycle.

Anyhoo, that aside, I really can understand your friend's fears at the thought of twins (my dd will be just 2 when mine are born) and I had a hard time coming to terms with the thought of two more babies arriving at the same time. But there is help and support available - other posters have suggested you arrange a meeting with her mum so she can be really honest with her about her feelings, she might find her mum is able to offer more practical help than she thinks. There are also twin organisations such as TAMBA.

I'm not going to get into whether I think she should abort or not, but I do think she should avoid any decisions made out of panic or fear. Encourage her to talk to her mum and see her GP/midwife/FPC for more information.

Marie Stopes are a good place to start. They offer excellent advice (and counselling should your friend need it) - all without judgement. It's a good place to start as they'll be able to talk through her options and offer her support and advice. I would urge her to look into this as soon as possible as time is of the essence here. If she does chose to terminate the pregnancy then the sooner she does it, the better. Even aside from the emotional implications, late abortions are no picnic physically and are quite medicalised.

Your friend has options:

1. Terminate the pregnancy. I would urge her to talk to Marie Stopes or her GP (I think Marie Stopes would be excellent as they also offer counselling and know their stuff) as soon as possible as the later she leaves it the grimmer it can get - both emotionally and physically.

1. Selective Reduction. I hate this phrase but it's an option that's out there. It's often offered in large multiple pregnancies (triplets or more) or in complicated multiple pregnancies) and involves one of the embryos/babies having its heartbeat stopped by medical intervention (I believe by injection). However, it's possible that there is a time limit on it (although I could be wrong on that) and certainly it carries a risk of miscarrying the other embryo/baby. So you reduce to one but could lose the whole pregnancy.

1. Adoption. I would imagine this would be very, very hard but it is an option.

1. Keep the pregnancy. Accept the gift. She'll cope. People WILL help and there are amazing support networks (Homestart, local twins clubs/the Multiple Birth Foundation/TAMBA). Lots of people have been in her shoes and equally horrified/shellshocked/appalled and convinced of eternal doom but they've survived and have come through the other side. She won't be alone.

It's so hard not to get emotive. I would never judge as I'm not in her shoes and I am totally pro-choice, but I'm sad that one baby would be acceptable (and kept and loved) but that two is just too much. Twins are a great gift, although I accept I'm biased.

Tell your friend to talk to Marie Stopes and get as much advice and help as she can. At the end it's a decision she and she alone has to make and I suspect it will be a gut decision (as all the right ones ultimately are). Either choice will bring its own particular brand of struggles in the future (which is why I feel great sadness for your poor friend as this is such a difficult and horrible situation to be in) and either way she'll have to live with consequences of her decision. Support and advice from trusted professionals and from good friends such as yourself will help her reach that decision. But I urge her to get as informed as she can before she makes that decision. It won't make it any the easier but at least she will know that she made her decision in full awareness and that she can sit back and know that whatever that decision was/is it was/is the right one for her at that/this time.

Kitstwins

Your friend sounds scared by a massive life change. But it sounds as if she has people to support her and probably has the resources to cope with it. Perhaps she just needs confidence to know that she can manage with twins and her other child.
She needs to know the details of the abortion process i think too.
It's really tough that she has to make a decision now and yet she needs time to make the right one
Personally i think that unless she is certain about the abortion she might well regret it, but if she goes ahead with the twins, when she sees them, she will manage and most likely even fall in love with them. I would hesitate to advise the abortion unless she is totally sure.

I see women and men just after they have found out they have twins at work. Reactions go from hysterical laughter to arguments to screams to terror to silence to money talk - you name it.

Your friend probably feels caught in a wind tunnel and panicked. Encourage her to talk to Marie Stopes or the British pregnancy service and her GP. And well don efor just being there for her and being able to not even mention your own feelings on this!

It sounds to me like she is panicing and freaking out at the prospect of having twins. TBH when I was going for my scan I was terrified of being told I'm having twins, luckily I'm just having the 1 but I think I would panic if there were 2.
Even in this pregnancy (it was planned and very much wanted) I still had a moment where I thought ''oh my god, what am I doing? I can't do it!!!''.
Is she with the father? If so, what are his thoughts on the matter?
If she was to terminate at this stage they would probably just use the 'vacuum' method, this happens under general anaestic and she'd be out of the hospital/clinic on the same day.
After 15 weeks she'd have 2 options, a surgical abortion or an induction.
I'm just really worried that she would live to regret the decision if she decides to abort.
I had a termination at 8 weeks (as early as I could) and that was difficult enough and caused me severe depression etc afterwards. I dread to think of the impact it would make on somebody once you have seen your babies and they are so much bigger.
I really think she needs support from people to reassure her that if she keeps the babies then ppl will help her. If it helps I have been told that 2 babies is no harder than 1, whether that is true I'm not sure xxx

Having thought about this thread, I can see why the OP's friend is scared..

If her DH / father is a 'yeah, whatever' sort of bloke, she is probably not expecting him to be too much support.. but it's likely (thinking GENERIC bloke here) might not fancy him MIL around all day every day...

OP - if you are still there, you have to get to the bottom of WHY with your friend...

I'm really quite pro Abortion (I DO feel it's a woman's right) but what I mean is it's a woman's right to choose... not to feel forced one way or another................

I do hope you can get her to talk before she makes a decision she regrets.

hunny - you are right. Two babies whilst obviously hard work are not quite double the work.
I would feed mine bottles made at the same time and fed at the same time whilst they both sat in car seats in front of the sofa in living room. Once they are 6 months old they will lie/sit on the floor together and play with one big pile of toys.

I really feel that your friend is panicking and this is totally justified but I want to put the other side to abortion (I am for it and nearly did it) but came out the other side and have no regrets.

PinkPrincess is your friend able to get on the comp herself? I just think it may help her to talk to ppl who have twins.
I always think that it is the unkown that scares us and if she could talk to other women who have twins it may help to calm her fears.
Like wishitwouldsnow I'm obviously not anti-abortion (having had one myself) but I really don't want your friend to do something that I'm almost certain she will regret.
When I had an abortion I wanted my 'problem' to just go away but what I didn't realise is that it would only trigger a whole host of other problems which were much worse.
What I'm saying is your friend really needs to understand the lasting impact it would have on her if she goes through the termination and it should only really be a last resort.

The thing I found about twins is that you as a mum are physically knackered from the pregnancy and that is the big problem to cope with. The babies are happy as long as fed and clean. You just don't do anything except childcare for some time and if you can accept that then you are away.

If your friend was happy to be pregnant with one but freaked about two she may find it really, really difficult to live with her decision if she does go through with an abortion, especially as she already has one child. I'm not even slightly anti-abortion and can quite understand how horrified she must be at the idea of twins (I'm pg myself and will be shrieking like mad if my scan shows twins!) but I'm not sure that an abortion will be the right answer for your friend. If her mother is so keen for her to keep them and she has other family around then she already has some support. Her dh doing a 'whatever' may be his attempt to not pressurise her into keeping or aborting and not a lacklustre don't care attitude at all (more sort of not daring to say anything in case he says the wrong thing) so there may be more help there too. Plus she already has a fabulous, supportive friend who is doing her very best to help her at this time ...