Still pregnant but thinking about nurseries -- is it ever worth paying through the nose for a baby?

[Boobz]

I am looking at nurseries as there are crazy long waiting lists where I live in south London and I want to make sure I don't get caught out.

My husband and I took the day off work today and looked at 6 nurseries ranging from £30 a day to £60 a day. I have 6 months maternity leave and we have to both work to pay the mortgage and bills, so the baby will go to nursery for 3 days a week.

So here's the rub. I have fallen in love with the expensive nursery because I loved the people there, the building, the beautiful garden with organic veggie patch and animal "farm" (rabbits, guinea pigs etc), the cleanliness and over all "feel". However, I am sure that my baby would be safe, warm, loved, well fed and regularly changed at the cheapest nursery. Is it worth paying double for a baby to go a nursery which I like better because it's less rough around the edges and more in keeping with how I would order my own home (and nursery should I ever run one!) or is a 6 month old going to mostly be eating and sleeping and thus it really doesn't matter how clean and tidy and pretty things are? We are due to go abroad with DH's job about 10 months after the baby joins the nursery, so it's not for a very long time.

The difference in price is £5,400 vs £10,800. That's a lot. Should we save the £5,400 and have better toys/holidays/weekends away with the kid or invest it in the best nursery around here which my heart tells me is the right one? Is the baby too yound to notice the difference?

What do you do / would you do? Apologies for posting this here -- not sure if it's better here or in parenting boards (are they used as much as over here?)

Thanks!

The other thing I would ask is how often they change rooms. At our nursery they progress through the various rooms every 6 months but keep the same staff with them till they are three. I really think this is a fantastic policy. If one has more continuity with the carers I would seriously think of going for that one regardless of all the other issues.

No idea about routines yet - still all very new to this. Ditto food - I imagine I will want no processed stuff and only the best organic food but not sure if it would be a deal breaker until the time comes. Nappies food etc all included in all of them. Haven't read the Ofsted reports yet (assume there is a website where I can find them all in one place?)

I do want to give my kids the best possible start in life and we CAN afford it although would be a stretch. What my DH wonders is whether we are taking away from other parts of their life by paying for the expensive nursery (like amazing holidays etc). Or is 3 days in a great nursery better than 3 days in an OK / good nursery PLUS holidays and trips / experiences.

Do people in London think £900 a month for 3 days a week is expensive? Or are some people paying even more than that, out of interest?

The nurseries that we are debating are Cavendish Lodge and Carmen's Christian Nursery (both in Streatham, SW London).

xx

We have given up exp hols for nursery (and will be eating into savings for a while when we have 3 there). Kids don't care about hols - as long as they have you with them all day then it's a holiday, rain or shine where-ever you are. I however do need hols and am miserable after 2 stinky summers in blighty.

I used to work for Ofsted and have also run nurseries so my ears pricked up!

Have just read the Cavendish House ofsted report and have the following comments:

1. They were told to adhere to staff:child ratios in the baby room which suggests that they were found not to be doing so on the day of the inspection.

1. They don't appear to be registered as a setting offering early education which seems odd.

1. Despite being registered for 65 children they don't have many on roll which is strange as good nurseries are usually full.

Off to read the other one now

It's Carmena, not Carmen. Where can I read the reports too?

Ok I wouldn't recommend the Carmena Christian Nursery I'm afraid. Their Ofsted grading for both care and early education was onyl satisfactory wheras the other one was graded Good with outstanding for being healthy and staying safe.

Carmena had a whole list of recommendations in their report- not very high standards of care there it would appear.

Carmena Christian Nursery

Cavendish Lodge Nursery

Sorry- my last post links you directly to their most recent inspection reports

Shinypinkpumpkin - please don't take offense, none intended, but - do you think the ofsted reports are an accurate reflection of the care given. I always thought the assessments were a bit tick boxy so a missing radiator cover would result in terrible safety scores, or some managerial problems with staffing numbers would result in a really dire report. Where as actually the kids might be really loved by people doing their best but with a shitty / slow manager at the helm.

Sod ofsted reports, I would pay for the convenience. Priceless IMO when you're trying to get to work, you don't need to add anymore time on to your journey.

Ofsted have got loads better in my opinion. Gone are the days of the stern inspector walking around with a clipboard. Nowadays you are more likely to find them on the floor, interacting with the children. Observing the interactions between staff and children. Seeing how well staff:child ratios are covered. Asking the staff questions to see how well they understand the policies and procedures. They also quite often try the food and chat to the children. their brief is to 'see what it's like for a chold attending that nursery'.

I don't put all my faith and trust in Ofsted. But sometimes the evidence they collect during some inspections is very helpful.

So Ewe would you rather send your child to a nursery that is within walking distance even if they don't have the legal number of staff to keep your child safe?

How many lovely overseas holidays are you likely to have in the 10 months leading up to your DH being posted overseas? I'm guessing not too many with a small baby, so if your heart is really leaning to the more expensive option, then I would say go for it (although the other one sounds really nice too - I really think the most important things when they're that small are lots of cuddles, good routine, somewhere warm and quiet to sleep. And really your DC won't be participating too much in the petting zoo by the time you leave). Also, small babies really don't require expensive or extensive toy collections (some books to look at, something to rattle, a play gym, Mummy or Daddy to talk to them and sing out of tune nursery rhymes).

Just a note on the home made organic vege thing - I did that with DD1, and really did make a rod for my own back, as she wouldn't touch anything from a jar, ever (which was what I was aiming for initially!). Wasn't actually terribly convenient at all sometimes (e.g. when away on holiday), so now pg with DC2 and planning to use some good quality organic jars as well, just to improve on the convenience factor...

Is it worth it? Yes. Is it necessary? No. Not even in London.

You got a good feeling about the first nursery. Brilliant. Hopefully you'll continue to learn to trust your instincts about things like that as you grow into your role as a mother.

Ofsted report is a great idea to give you an added level of info, however out of oa choice of two I chose the cheaper nursery with a slightly lower Ofsted grade rather than the pricier one with a higher grade. Why? Because (1) I had a personal recommendation from a friend whose daughter had been there for a year (I can't over stress the value of a personal recommendation) (2) it's a Montessori nursery, and so instills the values which we prize - enabling the child to explore and learn at their own pace rather than 'instructing'. There is still structure at that nursery but I think under the age of 5 this approach supports them better - children are naturally deductive learners, and so it follows their instincts and enables them to grow into more of what they already are.

Hope that makes sense!

Have a fabulous pregnancy, good luck with the nursery hunt and congratulations and well done for entering the most amazing, precious, fun, knackering and exciting phase of your life!

re Cavendish not being full, the inspection was carried out only 2 months after they opened, more relevant if they are full now imo.

Good point- I didn't notice that

Of course not but tbh, in my experience there isn't a huge amount of difference between good and outstanding nurseries (we don't have anything less around here).

I don't think anyone would knowingly send there DC to a nursery with illegal staff ratios.

My point was more, convenience is incredibly important, when you're rushing around trying to get to a meeting etc your nursery being v.close is a def bonus.

Hi Boobs (hope your well

Personally in your situation i would be going for another look around your short list for second viewings (so to speak) abit like when your buying a new home, go over everything with a fine tooth comb.

Another idea as you dont have friends with DCs that can recommend a nursery why dont you post on the pre school board here name the nurserys your considering.

While i see the idea of a nursery close to home would be a plus point, but do you work close to home? (i seem to recall that you work from home occasionally?? pg hormones have shut my brian down today LOL) would it be worth considering nurserys close your your work or your hubbys work?

Have you considered a local child minder?

I think the expensive nursery ofsted report is pretty good! The staff ratios were all present and correct when we visited (and I have been twice now - with DH and on my own).

I work from home - so expensive nursery is close to home and work!

Having looked into nurseries (to a point) I now need to look at other options like a childminder, but I have no idea what they do really, or where to start. Do I just drop my baby off at their house and they play with them all day? Are they cheaper than a nursery? How many kids can a child minder look after - surely they (my kid(s) would get more social interaction (i.e. more opportunity to make friends) at a nursery? If childminders are cheaper and more "attentive" than a nursery, why doesn't everyone send their DCs to a childminder rather than nursery?

Thanks TCD - I am well - you too I hope?

re childminders vs nursery

imo for the age you are talking about, making friends is just not an issue. There are legal limits on how many a childminder can have (as there are at nursery). It can feel like quite a lot, depending on how many they take in.

childminders are usually cheaper than a nursery, yes. But the good ones are fabbo.

Why doesn't everyone send their dcs to a childminder - it's very personal; some people dislike the idea of the one-to-oneness of childminding, feeling there is less supervision; if you are putting your child with a childminder or nanny, the carer's illness is your problem, whereas at a nursery, the staff's illness is the nursery's problem. (However, in some cases a childminder or nanny can occasionally look after a child who is e.g. recovering from a stomach bug, whereas a nursery couldn't. Of course, this falls down because usually the ill child just wants a parent!) And because your child is going to the childminders' home, you have to really like the surroundings, and since childminders aren't paid much, you may not.

re playing all day, what do you think they do at nursery??

Consider a nanny-share? (sorry to give you yet more options!) But think about childminders seriously - for info get the number of your local Childcare Information service off Google as they should have up to date lists with vacancies. I had a place at a nursery, but when the babe was born I went for a childminder, then switched to a nannyshare for long and boring reasons. In the end I wanted a home-based option rather than a nursery. Plenty go the other way - good nurseries are great too.

Nannies! Now I have to think about nannies! I give up....

I think most people start off looking at nurseries, I know I did. But I simply couldn't afford a lot of nurseries - on my wages, £900 for 5 days is more than half my take home pay which is slightly higher than dp's, and I decided I could manage about half take home pay at a push - which is about the cost of our council run children's centre nursery care. Two of our local children's centres have very good OFSTED reports, the other's new but its predecessor sounded ok. However, they have more applications than places especially under 18 months/2 and we didn't live near enough to any of them to get in when they take closest children first (after offering places on social need).

We were lucky though, I then tried childminders and the first one I visited seemed really lovely. The second was nice but I went with instinct for the first. DS gets to play with a big family and their other mindees, and at the moment he's the youngest - we're expecting another one who I hope will be able to join him.

NOOO boobz don't give up, I do know how it feels - like everyone assumes 'you're pregnant, you must instinctively KNOW everything there is to know about childcare'

have a look at your local gumtree site sometime to get a feel for how nanny adverts sound. we did not do some massively efficient interviewing process [guilt emoticon]. a nanny-share was advertised in our local residents' association newsletter at a key moment for us - sheer luck. 3 years later when I needed a new arrangement, i logged on to gumtree, saw only 1 advert for a nanny but she wanted the sort of hours we were offering, interviewed her and we have just finished employing her for a year. Sometimes dumb luck can come to your aid.

BIG tip - start going to the odd local NCT coffee meet up if you can find time (find the local coordinator's contact email via the NCT website, or via antenatal classes if you are doing those). Can feel very strange and scary (just to warn you) but you should be welcome, and it will be the quickest way to start finding out local info on childcare.

do you feel on top of the funding help that's available? wanted to ask you that before launching into an explanation!

The choice between nursery and childminder is a personal one but for me it was a straightforward choice, I wanted a nursery. I can't really explain why I'm afraid. I didn't even look into childminders. It turned out to be a good choice, my daughter loves going and she has loads of friends, and gets on really well with all the staff. They have a set structure to the day which suits both me and her - we like routine

We started our research for nurserys just by looking at reports and other info on the web, and crossed all but 2 off the list. The one we chose needs decorating quite badly and furniture etc seems quite old, but kids aren't interested in things like that. We liked the friendliness, the amount of outdoor space they have to play in, and the general level of organisation. I'm not interested in organic food, but the cook always does really good homecooked meals which my daughter loves.

When we speak to other people about nursery choice people always say that the reason they chose a different nursery was because it looked better decorated and more modern etc, but I am glad we looked beyond that and looked at what was more important to a child.