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Pregnancy

Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

36 week scan today, found baby to be breech :-(

53 replies

BlueJellie · 10/09/2008 12:15

baby has been head down all throughout my pregnancy & for some reason he's now turned :-( I expected scan & appointment today to just be same old same old & now THIS. I'm booked in on Friday for an ECV, can anyone share their experience of this please? If it's not successful then I will have to have an elective section. I'm so so gutted I was petrified about labour but didn't want a section as am worried about the recovery etc & breast feeding. Been crying all morning since the scan, can't understand why pregnancy has been textbook so far & now it's gone to crap at the final hurdle :-(

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Seeline · 10/09/2008 12:24

Sorry it's a while since I went through this - is an ECV when they turn the baby? If so I had it with DD who was transverse at about 37 (?) weeks and it worked! It was a little uncomfortable - although on the outside rather than inside as they do push quite hard and you get sort of friction on your tummy skin. Afterwards they did a scan to check and I had to stay lying down for about 1/2 - 1 hour afterwards but then I went home and hoped she didn't decide to turn again (she didn't). Good luck!

cathym · 10/09/2008 12:49

I can't offer any info about ECV as I wasn't able to have it, but don't worry about the recovery period after a c-section of breast feeding. With a new born baby you won't want to be going out much anyway so it didn't bother me at all. It made no difference at all to breast feeding either. I was worried that not being able to drive for about 6 weeks would drive me mad, but actually I felt so exhausted all the time due to having a new born that I didn't want to drive anywhere anyway!
Good luck with the ECV though.

hanaflower · 10/09/2008 12:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lauraloola · 10/09/2008 12:57

Did they discuss you trying to deliver lo naturally?

LittleMyDancing · 10/09/2008 13:03

I had an ECV with DS - it was absolutely fine. It can be uncomfortable, but our consultant told me to tell her to stop if it hurt at any point, and in the end he went over with no trouble, and no drugs required. (Sometimes they give you a drug to relax your muscles a bit)

He kicked like a mule afterwards though, not sure he was too pleased!

The way they do it is like this:

They get you to lie on your left side and tilt you slightly. They monitor the baby continuously throughout and scan you first to check where the baby is.

Then depending on how far your baby's bottom is engaged in your pelvis, they start digging around the bottom of the bump to disengage the bottom. Then they sort of knead the bump to make the baby rotate. It's an odd feeling, but in my case, not painful at all.

Then they monitor you for an hour afterwards to make sure the baby is ok, and give you tea and toast (in my case, anyway!)

If it's not successful, do discuss the possibility of a breech birth with your consultant. If it's a straightforward breech, they might be willing to let you have a trial of labour before going for a section. It's worth asking, and sometimes breech births can be very quick and easy.

I know how you feel - I cried and cried and felt like it was all my fault that DS was breech, but it really isn't.

Before your ECV, try spending as much time as possible on all fours with your head lower than your bum - this can help the baby turn again. Given that your baby has been head down before, you know he/she can turn, so it's worth a go. Some people also recommend putting a bag of frozen peas on the top of the bump for a bit. The theory is that the baby won't like getting a cold head, and will turn again. Not sure about this one

Acupuncture can also help.

Good Luck!

wombleprincess · 10/09/2008 13:14

hello, 34 and breech, so i commiserate and keep my fingers crossed for you. like you have been text book, and hoping for a home birth!

I have been told:

reflexology/accupuncture
handstands in swimming pool (at least 5x after 15 min warm up)
breaking position
lying inverted with legs up on sofa, making sure pelvis is above heart
crawling round on all fours (all three for about 15 - 20 mins 3x a day if poss)
frozen peas up top, hot water bottle down below
put torch at top of tummy and work it down towards pelvis (presumably do this in the dark?
and finally:
husband getting down there and talking/singing

JodieG1 · 10/09/2008 13:19

You can have deliver a breech baby naturally, did they talk to you about that? You don't have to have a c section if you don't want to.

buttercupbabe · 10/09/2008 13:34

Hi have no experience of breech but had an emergency section last time and successfully breastfed ds until he was 8 months. I'm having a planned section in 2 wks time and will plan to breastfeed again. It really wasn't a problem. If you do need to have a section it really isn't as bad as you think - and this is coming from the woman who had to have a general last time as it was such an emergency.
I do know one lady though whose baby was breech at 37 wks and she had reflexology which resulted in the baby doing a turn by the end of the session!
Hope all goes well for you.

Spillage21 · 10/09/2008 13:58

Moxibustion can sometimes work (traditional chinese medicine) as can kneeling with bum in air (glamorous, non?).

If baby remains breech maybe it's worth seeking out an experienced MW and Obs and then compare and contrast their advice: they may well offer to support you if you decide to proceed with a vaginal birth after a full discussion of the risks/benefits... don't be bulldozed into a decision you're not happy with and try not to stress.

But hey, one day you may wake up and bub is head down again...they are a law unto themselves.

BlueJellie · 10/09/2008 15:06

no they didn't even talk about having a vaginal birth, even said when my section would be if it's necessary - wonder why they didn't mention it? I thought it was just a no no until reading the replies. They did say the ECV is less likely to work because the baby is not curled up his legs are at at awkward position, so could this be something to do with it. If I end up having a section I still want to breastfeed etc does it affect your roduction if milk at all? I know there are those who have been successfull but was it harder? I'm also gutted as this is my first & there's now a chance I won't experience labour at all

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LittleMyDancing · 10/09/2008 15:16

BlueJellie I had an emergency C section and breast feeding was fine - milk came in after three days and DS latched on well and I fed him until he was a year old. I healed well, the scar is almost invisible, and I honestly had no problems at all.

Please try not to worry - it is hard to come to terms with the fact that you might not get the birth you want, but even if your baby turns and you have a natural labour you still might not get the birth you want, iyswim. It's one of those things about birth, it's not fully within our control.

You need to be relaxed for any of these things to work, so I would heartily recommend some acupuncture, both to turn the baby and to relax you.

Remember though - they can't force you to do anything, so if they say 'your CS will be on such a such a date' then don't be afraid to say 'Actually, I want to explore the option of a breech birth, if you won't do it then please can you recommend me a consultant who will consider it'. This is your birth, they are there to offer advice and make recommendations, but they can't force you to do anything.

Have a look on the internet and see if you can find an independent midwife who might help, as well.

And if your baby is in a difficult breech position, and vaginal birth is really not recommended, then you can also choose when they do it. They like to do it around 37 weeks, but if you're not comfortable with that then you can refuse to have it until 39 or 40 weeks, so that you feel happier that the baby is ready to be born.

All these things might help you feel like you have regained a bit of control over the process, iyswim?

Good luck

Tangle · 10/09/2008 15:18

DD was breech, my 1st and weighed in at 9lb 12. I declined an ECV and she was born as a breech baby at home with IMs.

If you can find experienced midwives (and there are no other problems) there's no evidence that a vaginal breech birth of a normal, term baby is more risky than a CS. Sadly, the challenge is often to find experienced midwives - NHS policy is to recommend a CS (partly due to lack of experienced midwives...), so the MWs don't have a chance to get much experience. That said, about 50% of breeches are undiagnosed at birth, so they do get some.

If you want to have a look, google Mary Cronk and read anything you can find by her - she's an extremely experienced midwife that lectures the NHS on breech birth and specialises in the more unusual presentations (breech, twin, etc).

If you can get hold of them, "Breech Birth" by Benna Waites and "Breech Birth: What are my options" by Jane Evans are both very informative books.

Talking to the MWs as well as the consultants is a very good idea. If you can, try and get them to tell you whether their recommendation is based on hospital policy or research - and if its research then what research (as the "Term Breech Trial" by Hannah et al, which is most often used, is pretty universaly discredited now...). If you talk to hospital midwives, try and find out their experience of hands-off vaginal breech birth (as per Mary Cronk) - I'd also be asking what their protocol says they'd have to do, what they'd actually do, and what they'd actually do if you refused to allow the Obs in the room. You might also want to talk to IMs - as they're not fettered by hospital policy they often have more experience of breech birth than their NHS colleagues (I didn't sign on till 36 weeks; it was STILL the best money we ever spent and we were able to find fantastic MWs).

At the end of the day you DO have options - all you can do is choose the option that is right for you and your circumstances.

That said, fingers crossed your DC gets head down again soon - they've obviously room to turn still

Tangle · 10/09/2008 15:26

Did you see what akward position the legs are in? Frank breech (bum down, legs straight, feet by ears) is not favourable for an ECV as the legs act as splints, but is the safest presentation for a vaginal breech birth: the biggest risk for a vaginal breech is cord prolapse - the bum makes nearly as good a plug in the pelvis as the head so cord prolapse is very rare (it becomes more likely, though still infrequent, as you move through full and footling breech).

I saw the consultant's team at about 35 weeks - their options to start with were either to turn baby with ECV or a section. When I pushed they came up with a medicalised vaginal breech delivery - which is VERY different to what I actually had.

I think they tend to stick with CS as its within their comfort zone. If you don't give options a lot of people won't ask, and then you don't have to go outside your box. They also tend to recommend a CS more strongly if its your 1st baby, although their reasoning is often "because your pelvis is tested" - however if you talk to experienced MWs, a vaginal breech either starts spontaneously and progresses well or it doesn't. And if it doesn't (one reason for which would be your pelvis being too small), you don't muck around - you go for a CS. (Oh, and the other favourite - their are also NO known cases of a vaginal breech birth of a normal, term baby getting its head stuck - there ARE known cases for preterm babies, where the head is dispraportionatly large, or for medicalised births).

MrsJamin · 10/09/2008 15:33

My DS was breech and I had a c-section - firstly please tell yourself that IT'S NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. I too was disappointed when I thought I could not have a straightforward natural(ish) birth but actually what's most important is that your baby is healthy. Breech is not a dangerous health risk to you or your baby - there's ladies out there with much scarier issues around childbirth. C-Sections aren't so bad, so many people have them, and actually you'd be better off than those who had emergency ones and not prepared themselves for recovery from the operation, longer stay in hospital, etc.

I had an ECV and to be completely honest with you it was the most painful thing I've ever experienced (and later on I went into labour naturally, was 6cm dilated with no pain relief and it wasn't as painful as the ECV!). BUT I am glad I tried it as it could have worked. It didn't work on me as I was 39+5 and a first-timer so the odds were against me.

If you want a vaginal birth you need to find someone who is confident of delivering the baby breech - if you don't then I wouldn't do it, as if the midwife isn't confident then I would worry that they didn't have enough experience, which they do need. I opted for a c-section but it is for you to make a choice when you've understood the pros and cons of either.

Don't worry about breastfeeding if you have a c-section, you just need to have a strong determination to do it, and make sure you let people know what you want after the birth, e.g. skin to skin etc.

BlueJellie · 10/09/2008 19:00

I'll definitely broach the subject if a vaginal birth on Friday as after reading your replies am v.annoyed they haven't discussed this with me. On the subject of the section they are saying it'll be at 39 weeks, really nervous about this, what if I go into labour before then? Won't the whole thing be more rushed and traumatic? Also I know this sounds a silly question but what happens to your waters with a c section? Do they break them beforehand? I know I'm already talking like this ECV isn't going to work, but I've kind of convinced myself of it at the mo. I've been on all fours today rocking but nothing as yet - the consultant said the chances of him turning on his own were slim - though I think that was a stupid comment since he's turned in the past week so could well turn back for all they know? Sorry long post just feeling at my wits end & babbling today. DP is saying I shouldn't be fretting till we have result Friday but I just can't help myself - been such a shock. I know I'm lucky baby is healthy etc but still feel peed off.

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BlueJellie · 10/09/2008 19:01

my god I wrote an essay there!

OP posts:
LittleMyDancing · 10/09/2008 20:02

Honestly, all these feelings are completely normal. Not only are you suddenly faced with not having the birth you want, but instead of thinking you'll go into labour 'sometime', they're talking about an actual date.

No wonder you're feeling all shaken up by it!

The reason they won't have mentioned breech birth to you is that most hospitals and consultants don't like to do them. This isn't because they're particularly dangerous (if it's a straightforward breech), but as C-sections have got safer, fewer and fewer consultants and midwives have experience of breech births, so they get a bit nervous. As other posters have said, if you find someone who has experience of breech births and thinks you have a good chance of delivering naturally, then you're in good hands.

Do you remember what sort of breech position they said the baby was in? If your ECV doesn't work (and I'll be crossing my fingers that it does) then make sure you ask them ALL the details - what position is the baby in, where are its feet/legs, is there something physically preventing it from turning over, etc etc. Write it all down if you're feeling wobbly, so you remember it later. Then you have some information to talk to independent midwives about.

Now C-sections: OK, so at 39 weeks, you're very unlikely to have gone into labour before that, first babies are almost always late. If you do go into labour, it's unlikely that it will progress very far before they can take you in for a C-section, as first labours tend to take ages, so it won't be a rush, so please don't fret about that. Unless you're the sort of person who gives birth very quickly, in which case breech or not, you'll have your baby!

I remember a recent post from you about being terrified of the birth anyway, do you think some of your fear of labour/birth is getting all mixed up in this, so it's not the specific procedure that's worrying you, just the whole concept of giving birth? It must suddenly seem very real with all this talk of C-sections and dates and ECVs!

As for the mechanics of a C section, I can tell you how they work if you like, and they're really not anything horrible, but for now you should definitely focus on getting that baby to turn. Relaxation, lots of positive thinking, ring an acupuncturist first thing tomorrow for an appointment, and keep your fingers crossed.

p.s. I know there's been lots of talk on here about breech births and independent midwives - if you decide that's not for you and go for the CS, that's ok too. This is your baby, your birth, and your decision. As long as you're comfortable with your decision, that's all you need to know.

BlueJellie · 10/09/2008 20:59

hi LMD, yeah that was me who posted about being scared of labour, feel like a right twonk now as now have these new problems and the old worries have paled into insignificance! It says in my notes 'legs extended' don't know if that's normal or not? I'm making notes of questions to ask on Friday from this thread as know I will get overwhelmed and forget everything. I was just a blubbering mess today & wanted to get out of there!

OP posts:
noonki · 10/09/2008 21:02

try acupuncture worked for my mate

LittleMyDancing · 10/09/2008 21:13

Legs extended is a bit more complex - the straightforward breech is where they have their legs up round their ears, if you see what I mean.

Listen, all you need to worry about for now is the ECV. Keep your fingers crossed that it goes well, and then if it doesn't work then you can consider your options.

And remember, you have three weeks to work out what you want to do, so don't feel you have to make a decision on the spot. Just breathe, get all the information you need, then take a bit of time to think.

I'll be thinking of you on Friday, come back and tell us how it went

squeaver · 10/09/2008 21:23

Lots of good advice here. Just wanted you to also know that there's really no reason to worry about an elective c-section.

I had one for a breech baby too. Was up and walking same day. Had no problems breast-feeding and recovery was fine.

Also your pregnancy has not "gone to crap" just because your baby is breech. "The breech babies are the clever ones" all the midwives told me!

Tangle · 10/09/2008 22:42

Hmm - my interpretation of "legs extended" would be that the baby is frank breech: I can't see how they'd fit any other way at 36 weeks with reasonably straight (ie extended) legs.

Other questions that can give "interesting" answers are:
"How many vaginal breeches have you seen?"
"How many of those were of single, term babies?"
"How many of those were hands-off rather than medicalised?"

As you can see from ladies here, ECV can be anywhere from mildly unpleasant through to very painfull - just remember that you can tell them to stop at any time.

Fingers crossed for you, whatever happens. LMD is exactly right that there is no "right" answer to this - you just need to be comfortable with the decision you make.

MrsJamin · 11/09/2008 09:53

Oh a tip for Friday is have your hospital bag fully packed and with you, left in the car - as they monitor the baby's heartbeat and sometimes (don't want to worry you) if they're worried about the effects of ECV on the baby they may want to deliver the baby on the day.

I went into labour about 10 hours after the ECV - waters broke, and I had DS 3 hours later by c-section, it was absolutely fine. To be honest I think you're a bit lucky if you go into labour before your c-section is booked, as you have the hormones which will help prepare you to see your baby (inc for breastfeeding) and you won't have to wait around on a waiting list if it was elective.

Do let us know how the turning goes, will be thinking of you.

WinkyWinkola · 11/09/2008 09:57

Read this book. It's so helpful and easy to read. It could assist you in your decision making.

Breech Birth

boolean · 11/09/2008 11:20

There are lots of things you could try to turn the baby naturally before you have the ECV, most mentioned above. What worked for me was bouncing/rocking gently on a fitness ball - apparently it opens up the pelvis and the baby naturally tips over into position.

I've also heard that there's a shiatsu pressure point which can be used post-36 weeks, so that's another option (but you'd need to find someone with experience of working on pregnant women).

There's still ages yet before your due date, so don't let them coerce you into anything you are uncomfortable with. Maybe you could ask for a few more days to try some natural techniques before the ECV appointment?

Good luck!