36 week scan today, found baby to be breech :-(

[BlueJellie]

baby has been head down all throughout my pregnancy & for some reason he's now turned :-( I expected scan & appointment today to just be same old same old & now THIS. I'm booked in on Friday for an ECV, can anyone share their experience of this please? If it's not successful then I will have to have an elective section. I'm so so gutted I was petrified about labour but didn't want a section as am worried about the recovery etc & breast feeding. Been crying all morning since the scan, can't understand why pregnancy has been textbook so far & now it's gone to crap at the final hurdle :-(

update... handstands in pool didnt work. were quite fun though and certainly got a few weird looks.

amy trying peas tonight.

baby has been moving loads today, though can't tell if its utnring or not - I didn't know he'd turned in the first place! Been doing the all fours etc - tried the frozen peas and didn't get any reaction to that - apart from making me bloody cold! Is an ECV painful? I just googled it (i know I shouldn't!) and someone's account said they used etinox during it as it was painful! They old me at the hospital it would be 'mildly uncomfortable'! I've packed my hospital bag ready etc just incase - convinced myself its going to send me into labour!!! Do they make you get changed at the hospital or is it as simple as you lifting your top up like a scan?????

Sorry for all the questions am really nervous!!!

It varies from person to person - some people find it painful, for some people (like me) it isn't.

It depends on how easily the baby goes over.

If it hurts, you can tell them to stop!

iirc, I just had to lift up my top, no hospital gown required.

good luck!

well update on the ECV today - for anyone else planning on having one, it's not 'mildly uncomfortable', it's agony! Well was for me anyway, I put up with as much as I could before I started crying - it's either because it was so awkward or I'm a big wimp. Either way, never again! They managed to move his bum out my pelvis, but his head just wasn't budging, must be having a stubborn baby! Eventually the consultant gave up. He did say though that due to them getting the bum to move relatively easily there's every chance the baby could still turn on his own. So booked in for another scan when I reach 38 weeks to see if still breech. I did feel the baby move after the procedure & am positive he just moved his bum back to where it was. Will be doubling my efforts to turn him over the next 2 weeks! Didn't get to discuss any of my concerns, when I approached the subject of breech births vs caesarians I was told to raise any issues with my midwife as the consultant had to go see another patient. How rude! See my midwife next week, so hopefully she'll be more receptive to my questions!

Hi BlueJellie - sorry to hear that your ECV didn't work and caused you so much pain. Console yourself with the fact that you tried!

There's still time for the baby to turn by itself, so keep trying, and do try acupuncture, it has a very high success rate.

Am at your consultant being so rude, if you don't get any useful answers from the midwife then insist on seeing someone who will spend some time with you to talk about your options.

Will be watching out for updates

I was breech in 1970 and they tried to turn me and I tried to come our sideways or something.
All worked out OK in the end though.

My DD was breech, I had her by CS last yr., I started a thread called breech watch. Tis packed full of info, will try and find...

thread here

A lot of breech babies are born perfectly well the usual way. Not all medical staff regard it as a problem per se.

Bluejellie, that's the very same experience that I had during an ECV, as I said I thought it was worse than labour (well contractions anyway). Don't feel bad that it didn't work out, it's really good that you gave it a try.

Really sorry the ECV was such a painfull experience for you, BlueJellie, and that it wasn't successful.

If you have a list of questions for the miwife it might be worth asking for a double appointment, just to try and make sure she has time to really go through them with you. If that's not possible you might want to ask for an appointment with the head of midwifery at the hospital.

Fingers crossed you can get some answers.

yeah DP held my hand through the ECV and was worried sick, was like I was in labour! Thanx for the link to that breech thread, is really interesting, am reading through it bit by but as is lots if pages! I just got home from my antenatal class at the hospital. Had a chat with the midwife there during the lunch break as she'd only covered 'normal' labour all morning. She said they don't even do breech births at my hospital as they are too dangerous! V.suprised at that response, seems my hospital won't even consider any other route but csection. She did explain the dangers etc but it was a very one sided. She was rather opinionated though when talking about labour, very anti-pain relief! One thing she did recommend to me though was the moxibustion (sp?) that I've seen mentioned on the breech thread, so am looking to see if can get that done anywhere round my area. Feel quite excited about these experimental therapies lol!

Babies can turn during labour so if you want to avoid CS then ask for a trial of breech. I hate the speed they seem to want to get women into the operating theatre without giving baby the chance to turn naturally.

trial of breech? Can anyone offer me an account of this? I don't know what's worse, giving into the elective section or having a go at labour & getting an emergency section. Is there much difference between the two? Elective and emergency I mean! I still can't believe I'm having to think about this, baby was being so well behaved until the past fortnight! I agree with your comment about the willingness to give women sections, it was funny as the midwife had just gone through a speech about how the hospital was tryng to lower the numbers of women having them. I was thinking bull!

Trial of breech means they let you have a go at delivering. I'm told (in hospital when I was pregnant with Tink) they're not allowed to refuse one.

There are four outcomes to a trial.

1. the baby could turn before you go into labour anyway (and possibly after you would have had a section)
2. the baby could turn with the contractions
3. baby doesn't turn but you have a successful delivery anyway
4. labour isn't going well so they decide to go for a section.

It's the first one that made me want a trial (I lost out anyway as I went into labour at 31 weeks).

If the birth is hands off and they let you do what you are comfortable with there is no reason why it should end in a section.

I was in hospital with someone who delivered with a MW and a student MW, she told the rest of the staff (you need to be firm about this because you could become bit of a show) to clear off (she only let the student stay because she had been looking after her on the ward and asked if she could come) and her partner was at home, she only had entonox. She was back on the ward quite quickly and up and moving around. It's not going to be that easy every time, but it can work well.

I had an emergency and had to have a GA because of how things went. I don't know much about emergencies at term without all the problems I had.

Hmmm. I think your MW will find that they DO do breech births at your hospital - what happens to the breech that's only diagnosed when they see that what's coming first is a bum and not a head!

I'd seriously be heading for the head of midwifery at this point. You might also want to talk to AIMS for advice.

If you want to do some digging into the research, most hospitals will use the Term Breech Trial (available in full for free if you register) to argue CS is "proven" safer than vaginal birth for breech babies. Unfortunately, it has been widely discredited (if you google "Term Breech Trial" with "review" or "critique" you'll get a LOT of reasons why, but here are some to start with from RADMID, RCM and the American Journal of O&G. This email chain also has some critique references and makes for very interesting reading for those interested in breech birth.

In April this year a study was published in J Gynecol Obstet Biol Reprod (Paris), which found breech delivery to be as safe as CS, and therefore did NOT recommend CS (you can find the abstract online, but I can't find the full paper for free anywhere.

To quote Mary Cronk, "Allow is not a word to use to a mentally competent adult." If you want to go for a vaginal breech birth there is nothing they can do to stop you. However, there is near universal agreement that the safety of vaginal breech birth lies in the skill of the midwife (or Dr for a delivery), and finding those skills within the NHS is, sadly, getting hard. You may need to look at IMs if you want to try a vaginal breech birth with confident, competent support.

I've got my fingers crossed for you.

Am reading this thread with interest - thanks for all those links Tangle. I am 37+ weeks with dc2 in frank breech presentation, dc1 was undiagnosed breech so I have already has a vaginal breech delivery (medicalised in the end, with epidural and forceps, as the whole thing was so unexpected and everyone panicked when saw a bum and not a head!).
I have really wanted a breech birth (this time ideally less medicalised) but have been getting worried about there not being suitably skilled midwifes/obstetricians on duty when I go into labour, seems like it will be down to the luck of who is working that shift.

hi ladies! Not posted for a while. Baby has been moving loads but doesn't seem to want to make the extra hurdle to head down, always rests back at breech position. I'm booked for a free consultation at my local holistic therapy centre this afternoon, the lady who does acupuncture is also a midwife so have been told to take my green notes in as well. Unsure about the difference between the reflexology & acupuncture in regards to success rates so she's going to through it all with me. D day is next Wednesday, when will have my final scan. Have made peace with the fact a Caesarian may be needed, not blubbering like an idiot anymore. Though after doing my research I've decided to push for a trial of breech as mentioned by Tangle. I would at least like to be given the chance of a labour& if it doesn't work THEN they can do what they will with me!

Hi BlueJellie,

Nice to hear you sounding so positive! Enjoy the reflexology, I'm a big fan of it generally, and acupuncture does get very good results, so fingers crossed.

Good luck as well with getting your trial of labour, remember, it's YOUR birth and you are perfectly entitled to ask for another consultant if yours is being difficult.

Bluejellie,

Although you have received LOTS of very sound advice & support, one thing occurred to me reading this thread. I saw a very good web site recently when researching for something else, www.caesarean.org.uk. It was very informative talking about the emotions involved in having a CS as well as practical issues. It gave ideas of ways to 'own' your CS, to make it personal, feel more in control, and bond with your baby. (Things like getting skin to skin). Also, there is a section on Breech babies & natural delivery which may contain some references not mentioned before here.

I really hope that it doesn't come to that and the reflexology/acupuncture/trial of labour work, but it might help you to be mentally prepared for all eventualities.

Let us know how it goes & good luck.

WELL just got back from the holistic centre. The midwife there examined me and reckons the baby has moved to head down! Therefore they won't do any treatments on me until my scan results on Wednesday. I did feel lots of movement in the middle of the night that woke me up so maybe he moved then? Don't want to count my chickens just yet, am waiting to feel where I feel kicks, will be waiting a long time though he comes alive at night! I'm just hoping the scan confirms he's head down too. The midwife said it feels like a head in my pelvis & the top is too wide to be a head etc. Now she says that it does feel like my bump has changed shape a bit butaybe I'm imagining it? Aah the uncertainty!! Can't contain myself till next week now. Thanx for that link rubles I'm still going to check it out as still feel sceptical about his position at the mo xx

Hooray! Let's hope she's right, I'm so pleased for you.

hi guys bit of a strange update for you, I'm currently sat in hospital bored stiff waiting to go have a csection, thank god for the iPhone! Thought my waters had been leakng yesterday but was told by hospital was a false alarm & probably just incontinence! Well came in for my scan this morning, turns out I was right my waters had gone as their is very little fluid round the baby. Also even though his heartbeat & movements are fine there isn't as much oxygen as they'd like travellig through the cord, and he is still breech. Thus I'm having a section at 5 to get him out! He also hasn't grown much since last scan so they said he's ready to come out etc. Will be back on soon hopefully with some good news and a healthy baby!

Hi

I have been watching your post as i'm in the same boat as you. Told baby breech at 35 weeks got another MW appointment tomorrow to see if she thinks its turned, i don't think so even though i have spent plenty of time on my hands and knees. Hope all goes well for you today, wishing you lots of luck