Declining antenatal care

[Casuallydresseddeepinconversation]

I've declined midwife appts,I had a call last week to try and change my mind and another today,I feel coerced and bullied,patronised and ignored,I'm 20 weeks today and just want to be left alone, considering not going to my 20 week scan now too, the 13 week one wasn't a pleasant experience either and I feel very anti NHS,tho I don't have funds for complete private care, just feeling very emotional atm

Absolutely the NHS are not beyond reproach and everyone should be able to question and refuse treatment if they want.

But the OP is not questioning bit by bit, she’s taking a blanket No approach based on very wrong assumptions like “I’d feel symptoms if something was wrong”.

Its entirely up to you. Of course.

But my baby was born with a congenital heart defect. It was picked up at an antenatal appointment and a care plan was put in place. My baby had to be born in a specialist hospital and was immediately put into intensive care. They received treatment after birth and are now healthy.

If we had found out about the condition after birth with all the plans already in place the risk of death or serious complications were massive.

I was a low risk pregnancy, very fit and healthy, had already had one easy pregnancy and birth of a healthy child. There were 0 indicators that my child was at risk of defect. It was bad luck, but it is not a massively uncommon defect.

This. This is it.
100% overcoming recurrant miscarriage and the best birth outcome for me and my baby was based on reading every single thing I could and standing up for myself. Changed trusts to get access to proper testing.
The small baby policy? Read it all. Consultant had no answers to my legitimate questions.
Fell out with a few medical professionals along the way but who cares.
Thank you for saying it. The NHS is not evil or full of bad people. But it is inefficient and has to operate in a risk adverse way to protect itself. That is obviously not going to mean individualused care. You have to cover that part yourself.

I understand what you’re saying and can see PPs frustration in the thread, I think the OP is very much in threat/defense mode and feels personally attacked. Hopefully the OP will take points away from this discussion and think things through, there have been some good suggestions… in amongst the arguing!

I’m really glad, but also sad, that this was your experience. It is concerning as not everyone is empowered and able to assert themselves, the NHS can be intimidating and when you are sat opposite a Consultant who is authoritative it is not easy to challenge! I’m glad you were able to do your own research and advocate for yourself.

@Notparticularlywealthy I had a baby in May 2020, at height of Covid. The NHS were dire. They stopped ALL f2f appts and suggested these were done over the phone. Ummmmm... nobody to check BP, urine, fundal height. What a disgrace.
They then said that if fathers were to be present at their partner's labour in hopsital, a VE must be undertaken to confirm established labour. So, in essence, subject me and my baby to an entirely unecessary (and not without its risks) fingers inside me or your husband won't be there to witness the birth of his first and last baby. Unacceptable.
We were fortunate in that we had the funds to employ an Independent Midwife and had a incredibly liberating homebirth.

My sister didn't bother going for her second scan, had no issues with previous pregnancies, skipped it for a family event

Child was born with spina bifida and hydrocephalus - which they say would have been picked up at the second scan

I think it's irresponsible to not go and make sure baby is safe and happy, it's not all about you

@ilovedogsme That's really sad news, but how would the outcome have been any different if she'd have found this information out at second scan?

She would have been prepared and researched....or she would have had the option to terminate (which she wouldn't have done but some would)

It was a complete shock, there was another family member in giving birth at the same time, that baby was born healthy and then my sister gave birth and her world fell apart, was told baby would only survive maybe 2 weeks - she is in her 30's now so she was and is a fighter but she has had no life and my sister has been 24/7 carer all her life, she is coming towards end of life now and my sister is going to have to go through this in her 60's

@Casuallydresseddeepinconversation I was fit and healthy still working out and running up until 35 weeks and I got diagnosed with GD and then baby's growth slowed and stopped so feeling healthy isn't much of an indicator as I was feeling absolutely incredible!

Surely if there were concerns about one of your children you'd get them checked out so maybe view this as nothing different!

That is just so much waffle. Have you read any of the heartbreaking stories of loss and near-loss on this thread at all??

I don't sympathise with her one bit. She is wilfully and deliberately putting her unborn child and herself at risk, for no apparent good reason!

Go have your baby in a 3rd world country and see how that goes.

They can't save every baby/mother but in having proper antenatal care, the odds are better. Surely you can see that??

That's not universally true!!

I am sorry to hear about the appalling care you received. By late 2020 they seemed to have a better routine.

However, you being subjected to an unnecessary vaginal examination and not having blood and urine tested does not mean that these tests weren't necessary. COVID was unprecedented, certainly at the start. Thank goodness things are not the same anymore!

I said they don’t have to lead to intervention. Not that they don’t/cant lead to intervention. I’m very aware that some people will have an unnecessary intervention as it errs on the side of caution and there is no crystal ball. So it’s impossible on an individual basis to know if a baby was saved or not. But the stats back up the fact that measuring fundal height and acting on low or high measurements dramatically reduces mortality rates. Saving Babies Lives and the retrospective massive research in the West Mids backs that up.

Well as someone else said, postcode lottery. As I said, my fundal height was normal and my baby was growth restricted. I'm done here.

There's always going to be the exception. There will be babies which measure small both on fundal height and scan and come out a good size, there will be babies which measure normally and come out small/big. It isn't an exact science but we know from massive research involving thousands of women that it picks up the majority of issues.

I'm sorry your baby wasn't picked up when growth restricted but the answer isn't it stop bothering measuring as then no babies will be picked up. Hospitals should all now be using customised growth charts which in the past they weren't and not using customised growth chart meant babies were being missed. That's a fairly new change. There is a push to better training for measuring fundal height. We need to keep improving. When I was a junior midwife we didn't even use tape measures - we measured in finger widths!

BTW. France count their weeks different to the UK, so in France 43 weeks is the same as 42 weeks in the UK.

With my second, I had consultant agreement to go to 43 weeks. But this would have included a placental scan at 42 weeks to ensure my baby was still being nourished, as the placenta starts to break down and is a HUGE risk to the baby.

Bingo! "Birth is a natural process"

You know what else is? Women and babies dying. We have lost sight of how common this used to be before routine antenatal care - maternal death was about 1/200 or 0.5% in the Victorian era.

Pregnancy and birth used to be the singularly most dangerous thing a woman went through in her life. I'd say if you're otherwise healthy, it probably still is the most medically risky time of your life.

Do you feel the same way about other types of health screening, like smear tests, BP tests etc? Do they also involve medical professionals treating you as though you're "moments away from disaster"?

I am all for women knowing their rights and feeling assertive enough to advocate for themselves to avoid being railroaded into interventions they don't want. But I have come to thoroughly dislike the hypnobirthing trend.

Missed this,what did she say?

Well I was told by a senior midwife that saving babies has not reduced stillbirth rates, presumably in our area. It actually says in the policy that implementing it creates unnecessary intervention. Yes. I read it. Our trust has been using customised growth charts for a couple of years already. Don't get me started on those. My 7lb 10oz first child potted 9th centile according to the new charts (they were born before the new charts came in) It's essentially ethnicity and BMI data. Excuse my deep distrust of the system, given I had to spend my last week of pregnancy looking at clinical policy and reading stillbirth statistics in order to put a decent care plan in place for myself.

I measured small with my first,was sent for a growth scan,he was 9lbs,I don't fundal heights are particularly scientific or reliable

BTW my first baby needed to be born at 38 weeks because the placenta had deteriorated so much! So pardon me if I don't care all that much how many weeks French women stay pregnant!

I am eating healthy, im looking after my health,I'm taking prenatal vitamins, having a flu vaccine isn't the only thing you can do to have a healthy pregnancy,I do not have underlying health conditions that mean I would be at high risk from flu and as an adult I cam decide if I want a vaccine for a common virus

I'm not caring for my child because I don't want a covid vaccine? How long has it been arround,how long have the affects on unborn babies been studied for? I am fully able to make informed decisions about vaccines,I wouldn't be forced to have it if I wasn't pregnant,being pregnant shouldn't take away my right to chose,it also doesn't stop you catching covid,I've had covid twice before and honestly I didn't even feel ill enough not to go to work