Declining antenatal care

[Casuallydresseddeepinconversation]

I've declined midwife appts,I had a call last week to try and change my mind and another today,I feel coerced and bullied,patronised and ignored,I'm 20 weeks today and just want to be left alone, considering not going to my 20 week scan now too, the 13 week one wasn't a pleasant experience either and I feel very anti NHS,tho I don't have funds for complete private care, just feeling very emotional atm

Ha no I'm fully aware that I'm having a baby,this is my 3rd and I know what to expect I'm intelligent and educated but surely I get to have some say over my care?
It's not just about you is it? You're showing arrogance about your baby's care. As PP's have said, it sounds like this would flag up as a safeguarding issue to social services.

Yoiu can make what decision you like but it feels like you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Things can change with the baby.

My brother was stillborn at 36 weeks.

My daughter having been a totally normal pregnancy was found to have very little amniotic fluid left at 39+2. I went to have a late term scan because I was planning a home birth where this was picked up. Plans for a home birth were quickly shelved and she was induced pronto.

I had no idea before the scan.

From AIMS re VEs...

My waters were broken without consent. I nearly lost my baby.

Vaginal examinations can be a source of infection, and the more times they are done, the more chances there are of causing an infection[3]. Unfortunately, anything that is put into the vagina – including a sterile speculum or gloved finger – will increase the risk of an infection whether or not the waters have broken, as doing so pushes germs up the vagina towards the uterus.
Additionally, a VE can cause the waters to be broken by mistake, which can then increase the risk of infection as well as sometimes causing contractions to become more difficult to cope with. In some cases, as we have heard many times on the AIMS helpline, midwives and doctors have accidentally or deliberately used a VE to break the waters despite the woman or person not having consented to having them broken.

If you're not intending on attending scans and appointment's what about checks for your placenta placement - especially considering you don't want to give birth in a hospital aswell?
That can be life threatening for both you and baby.
Baby's position?
Not attending midwife appointments to check baby's heartbeat?
Protein in your urine?
Blood pressure?
Baby's growth?
Blood checks for diabetes etc etc.
RSV jab? Flu jab? Whooping cough?
All of the above mostly there to monitor/protect your unborn baby. Not inconvenience you.

I think when we make a choice to be pregnant, we are making a agreement to assign our wants and needs over to the human we are choosing to grow, if attending appointments and health checks is apart of that, which from having two already, you'd know is. Then that's a sacrifice you make. No matter how inconvenient to you. It isn't about you anymore, it's about the baby you've chosen to nurture and take care of and that starts while pregnant.. full stop.

@Casuallydresseddeepinconversation - are you going to monitor your health at home, as people have suggested? BP, blood sugar, urine?

OP, your line of thinking is desperately odd. You didn’t want a termination, but you do want to prioritize yourself and your existing children over your 3rd child. It can’t be both, you either prioritize all of your children or none of them - and you definitely don’t prioritize yourself over any of them. Alongside them, sure, but not over them.

Get over yourself

YOU chose to possibly get pregnant, YOU chose to keep it, so now YOU have to do your due diligence as a mother to provide your baby the best care possible, regardless of your own fragile feelings. You don’t like the midwife for doing HER JOB and caring for your baby. Big deal. Grow up and deal with your own issues, stop making them your baby’s problem

You said you were declining midwife appointments and considering not attending the 20 week scan, which is arguably the most important one. You said you were getting emotional. People are reacting out of concern for your baby, because you don't seem to be considering their welfare at all. People are telling you that it's possible to feel perfectly well and yet have things go seriously wrong. If you don't want the truth, maybe don't post.

How is going to midwife appointments detrimental to your existing children?

I ddon’t know if anyone else has mentioned this but you could be referred to social services.

What I'm perceiving is that your experiences have demonstrated that health care professionals have treated/are treating you as an incubator for this "very important" baby, rather than an intelligent pregnant woman who's already had two children without problems. You know the score, you feel well and would prefer to proceed without intervention to avoid being treated like a meat locker.

This is understandable.

I also perceive that you are asking if anyone else on MN has chosen this path and what was their experience. You're being met with judgment which is not helpful.

I believe that by asking for experiences you want to use this information to make a considered decision about whether you have antenatal care or not.

All of this tells me you are carefully weighing up your options to make the best decision for you and the baby.

This is to be commended.

To add to your information, I used to work for a neonatal research unit at Oxford University, years ago. A lot of years ago. So I can't tell you what the latest advice is.

What I CAN tell you is that best practice is informed by clinical trials that will have worked out that the additional appointments/scans generally lead to better outcomes in the population as a whole.

This means that more often than not, having additional scans and appointments has reduced the risk of disability and/or death in babies and/or mothers.

What this means in your situation, given that you've had two pregnancies already, is that you may be fine and your baby may be fine or something else might come up that puts you and/or your baby in jeopardy.

It also means that there will have been enough cases of maternal or baby death or disability in otherwise healthy women, that could have been avoided or reduced if this had been picked up at a scan. It's also likely that NICE have decided that more appointments will reduce bad outcomes.

I haven't read any research papers on this, but if the best advice is to have more scans and appointments than was previously advised, then it's very, very likely (given the pressures on the NHS) that more appointments have saved lives or reduced serious disability to a significant level.

Turning back to you, it seems that you are probably going to be fine, but it's worth considering that otherwise healthy women may only have had serious issues identified when they had a later scan.

It's not for me to advise you whether to have the appointments/scans or not. They are there to ensure that women and their babies have the best outcomes possible.

I think NHS obstetrics services could do more to treat women as thinking human beings but like many services there isn't the time, inclination or money to invest.

I'm sure you have the best interests of your health and your baby in mind. If you were treated as the intelligent and experienced woman you are, would you have the apppintments/scans? And if the answer is yes, then it's the attitudes that need to change, not the number of appointments and scans.

I wish you a safe delivery.

Intelligent and educated...
If you were you would be attending your appointments.

Midwifes are qualified and specialised in this field, as are the hospital staff who will be assisting.

There's always one that thinks they know better than everyone else.

Don't judge till you have walked a mile in her shoes.

Intelligent and educated but was unaware that some conditions can be present without symptoms.

OP is a narcissist - always right, never wrong, and always the most important

OP - for the sake of your mental health I would go somewhere other than the Mumsnet talk boards to discuss this. There are so many women here who can't stop themselves hectoring and bullying other women for making choices outside of maternity guidance.

Maybe give Tommy's Midwives helpline a ring? They're really compassionate and could talk you through what your options are. Or if you emailed a consultant midwife at your local hospital - they might be able to find a way of you accessing care that's acceptable to you.

Will you see the HV after baby is born? Do your older children go to school?

Do you think all the check ups are there for a laugh? We have a carefully designed, risk based antenatal care program in this country. It costs money to run. Just because no problems were identified during your booking in appointment doesn't mean they won't be identified in someone else's (for example, mental health issues that endanger the mother and baby), and that they won't identify issues in your pregnancy down the line. Your post smacks of someone who thinks they know better than the actual experts. It's pretty depressing tbh.

I remember mum having to have bedrest with my younger sisters. She had one of them in 68 too. I don't remember how her care was because I was too little. I do remember that after they lost my brother 9 days after he was born (due to medical negligence basically) they paid for private antenatal care for my youngest sister. She could have died too, because my mum was on the list for induction, and the consultant was busy that day, she decided to put her back. The ward sister who had been their rock when my brother passed away, pleaded with him to deliver her that day, and he did. When my sister was born, it turned out that the placenta wouldn't have sustained her long enough for delivery.

Mum was just under 20 when she had me. She'd got married when she was 18.

OP it looks like you’ve had an overwhelming about of replies with lots of personal experiences shared with you and advice given.

It looks like the post it now going round in circles and probably causing you - a pregnant woman - some stress. Maybe time to bow out of this thread now rather than getting into arguments late at night. I can’t foresee much changing in the attitudes of you or the other posters!

Really hope you attend your antenatal clinics with the confidence to voice and talk through all of your concerns with the HCP who I’m sure are all happy to discuss with you.

Wish you and your unborn all the best ✌🏻

Most of us posting here have "walked a mile in her shoes" and have chosen to prioritise the health and safety of our unborn children!

Has anyone figured out what “they” are doing to the OP in a midwife appointment that is threatening the wellbeing of her and her existing children? Racking my brains but can’t remember anything so invasive and/or unedifying that it was worth the risk of my unborn child dying…

Agree with @Scentedjasmin and @TheDisillusionedAnarchist. I'm sorry I haven't read the full thread OP, but I just wanted to say I felt similarly during pregnancy and this stood out to me in your opening post:

"I don't like being patronised or bullied into things i dont want,I'm struggling having no body autonomy".

In my case, I think a lot of it was due to previous negative experiences with the nhs (e.g. ptsd following surgical intervention during a miscarriage). During pregnancy I felt vulnerable and infantilised in a way that made me want to push back and regain some kind of control, and I considered disengaging with the system. But in contrast to what many posters seem to be suggesting, I still cared deeply about the welfare of my baby. In my case I did engage with antenatal care as I knew that it was in our best interests, but it wasn't easy for me psychologically (if that makes sense), and I needed to do it in a way that I felt comfortable. So I'm not sure that the "suck it up and stop being selfish" posts are particularly helpful. Also some posters seem to be equating anxiety around antenatal treatment with automatic disregard for the child's wellbeing once it arrives. Personally, my feelings about antenatal care could not be further removed from my attitudes towards my childrens' vaccines, dental appointments etc (all of which I follow as advised).

Perhaps it would be helpful to have an honest conversation about how you're feeling with someone from your antenatal team (or e.g. a gp or hv that you trust) and explore whether any adjustments could be made or different staff could be involved in your care?

As an older Mum with my third pregnancy I was booked in for extra scans. At 33 weeks it was discovered that the placenta had disintegrated, all they knew was it had been sometime in the previous week, because I’d had a scan a week before One emergency section booked immediately. It really is better to be safe than sorry.

Failure to thrive (iugr, placental insufficiency), gestational diabetes, placental placement,

Thank you so much for this post

I’d put money on them being home schooled. She won’t think the teachers are being nice enough, seeing as she won’t engage with maternity services because they aren’t nice enough.